Light Aircraft crash at Blackbushe.

[Wycombe]

A preliminary report within one week of the accident is a sensational effort

It is indeed, but I venture to suggest that the proximity of the accident to their base has probably been a factor. I've seen a pic online that suggests the rising smoke at EGLK was clearly visible from EGLF. They would have been on site very quickly, one suspects.

Apparently, Border Force were awaiting the Phenom's arrival, and had to ask locals who observed the accident whether it was the a/c they had been waiting for.

[ETOPS]

I don't believe an experienced pilot would carry out an approach and landing as unstable as this without going around - so who was actually flying the aircraft?

[Pinkman]

Biz jet owners & clients can be very difficult people to deal with. Who knows what time pressures he may have been under on this flight & what history there was between him & the people down the back.

Long day, a bit behind the drag, into the circuit with rather to many Joules - no problem, can get that sorted downwind. Bitching Betty/Moaning Minnie starts chipping away about traffic which you can't see, the RA cuts in and then 'changes' it's mind. Before you know it your on final, not configured, too fast, too high......

Which seat was the Jordanian Pilot sat in? And was somebody sat in the "other" seat..

I was born, raised, and worked in the sandpit and worked in an aviation related field there and elsewhere. Take the above and multiply by ten. To these people a pilot is nothing more than an airframe driver. As a youngster I once saw it unfold just like that with the owner shouting at the harassed pilot talking to ATC "Tell them no! Tell them no!" Not saying that it happened like that but if it did then decent CVR may be critical to working out the "why" as opposed to the "what".

[His dudeness]

I don't believe an experienced pilot would carry out an approach and landing as unstable as this without going around

And yet it happens.... lets face it: humans do screw up from time to time. A gentle pull up with a little power added and a second pattern would have been a non event and easily explainable to the clients/pax. If you donŽt have the backbone to do that, then....but then again we are humans....
"my" aircraft has similar ref speeds and we are based at at even slightly smaller airfield. There is no way I would have tried to plant it on with 130-140-150 knots over the THR... whatever has ridden this guy, it was the wrong decision.

My first FI drilled one thing into me: its way harder to discontinue than to go on with whatever you just do. Sit back a second an rethink your decision if it feels wrong or you`re so rushed that there are no second options.

Saved me several times. (..and is easy to say with hindsight...)

[Pace]

This guy was an experienced Captain who had visited Blackbushe many times

I know with the Jet I fly if its onto a limited runway its on the numbers or go around and on the numbers means making sure the aircraft is ON THE NUMBERS as well as the speed.

What possessed this Captain to approach too fast and to then float and still attempt to land on a limited runway is hard to understand but we do not know the facts

Given the wealth of these people I am flummoxed why they don't operate dual pilot. Indeed in any public service -- which this is given that guests might be clients, etc. -- dual pilot should be the norm. Same with police helicopters (Glasgow?). When I was a kid we always thought that AAIB would find 'pilot error' -- often it wasn't, I'm sure. Today the reliability (not skill, but reliability of the machine that is Man) of the pilot is the weakest link.

Even the Slowtation 550 I fly is mandated 2 crew. With the high cruise speeds and sophistication of the Phenom 300 and CJ4s there surely must be a question mark over the political certification of these fast jets which allow them to be flown single crew?

I also cannot understand owners paying $ 8 million plus for these aircraft with two expensive engines then relying on a 50 plus in years guy single pilot

Tyre marks made by the aircraft at touchdown indicated that it landed approximately 710 m beyond the Runway 25 threshold. Runway 25 has a declared Landing Distance Available (LDA) of 1,059 m; therefore the aircraft touched down approximately 349 m before the end of the declared LDA, 438 m before the end of the paved runway surface.

This is utter madness that this Captain landed 25 KTS above his VREF 2/3 the way down the runway with any hope in his mind of stopping there has to be something else in here ? either pilot unwell or on purpose

Pace

[rlsbutler]

Two pilots not wanted

The couple of aviation disasters in its history, this wealthy family presumably has a general interest in flying.

The purchase spec probably insisted that a front seat might be occupied by an unqualified person.

[Pace]

That is a good point like the Prince Charles crash where the Captain allowed Prince Charles to land and they ran off the runway.

It is possible though unlikely that someone else was controlling the landing?

Unlikely because altitude changes were made to avoid other light aircraft, meaning a decent rate of 2500 to 3000 feet was made to get down to the glidepath resulting in the aircraft being too fast and way above VREF.

Hardly a situation where the Captain would consider it a good time to let a PAX have a go at landing especially on a length restricted runway.

Who was talking on the RT? Was it the Captain? was the voice normal or stressed ?

Pace

[skyrangerpro]

was the microlight G-CICG?

[Downwind Lander]

Report in today's UK's Guardian: "Bin Laden Crash Plane Overshot Runway".


Bin Laden plane landed too far down the runway to stop, say investigators | UK news | The Guardian

[catch21]

Fuel level

No mention of fuel level yet.

[Pace]

The operator estimated that the landing weight was 6,522 kg. The aircraft manufacturer calculated that at this weight the target threshold speed was 108 KIAS.

Don't know the weights on the 300 but you should be able to calculate from the above estimated landing weight. His speed was 135KTS way over the 108 VREF quoted above and he landed 2/3 of the way down the runway with no chance in hell of stopping. The Captain must have known that which makes this whole thing totally baffling
Low fuel he would have diverted into Farnborough

Pace

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by skyrangerpro

was the microlight G-CICG?

Originally Posted by catch21

No mention of fuel level yet.

Following yesterday's Special Bulletin, it's unlikely that the AAIB will publish anything else on the accident until the formal report on the findings of the investigation comes out (probably in early 2017, judging by recent AARs), unless significant new facts emerge in the meantime.

I suspect that the identity of the conflicting microlight or the arrival fuel state of the Phenom don't fall into that category.

[His dudeness]

Even the Slowtation 550 I fly is mandated 2 crew. With the high cruise speeds and sophistication of the Phenom 300 and CJ4s there surely must be a question mark over the political certification of these fast jets which allow them to be flown single crew?

I also cannot understand owners paying $ 8 million plus for these aircraft with two expensive engines then relying on a 50 plus in years guy single pilot

Excuse me Pace, we are talking about an accident during approach/landing within a speed range that is about equal to the ones of twins and turboprops. There is no relevance to the fact that the Phenom cruises fast high up. So here I disagree. And you know very well that the 551 is the same airplane as the 550 (apart from the book) and it is single hand certified.

The 50plus is irrelevant as well. Or do you impose that the accident happened because the dude was too old ? Come on...

Why wealthy dudes save on a second pair of qualified eyes is beyond me too...

[silvertate]

This is utter madness that this Captain landed 25 KTS above his VREF 2/3 the way down the runway with any hope in his mind of stopping there has to be something else in here ? either pilot unwell or on purpose.

Its called 'get-in-itus'. Very prevalent, is some parts.

To go around is to make a mistake, and 'I don't make mistakes'. Especially when the boss is watching. Even worse if the boss is flying, because nobody can even dream of the boss making a mistake.

The most recent example is the Polish VIP crash in Russia, where the pilot appears to have had the half military high command sitting behind him. Due to some prompting and bravado, the captain actually descended BELOW airfield level (on the rad-alt), in order to get ground contact. Which he did - until the ridge came into view...

So yes, it happens. Seen it in the sim.

And I seem to remember a certain Lo-Co had a number of long-and-fast landing a while back. And for the same reason - perceived pressure. How many were there, I forget...?

Tate

[Pace]

His Dudeness

yes I know Citations )) the 551 single pilot aircraft has to be flown below 12500 ibs which literally means you carry no PAX or don't go anywhere further than down the road.

The Phenom 300 and CJ4 are way above 12500, very fast and worlds apart from the single pilot Phenom 100 or CJ1.

You must agree there is a massive difference between a CJ1 and CJ4 but I believe theoretically they are covered by the same type rating although the insurance may demand a differences check.

The 500 series and CJ series require different type ratings although apart from the engines and a couple of minor items There should be no more than a differences course not a complete type

But then I never understand some of this stuff other than pressure by the manufacturers targeting a particular market

Apologies for referring to the pilots age at 57 as I am 50 plus too shooting myself in the foot but I still do not understand owners paying Millions and trying to save peanuts and knowing one pilot who always flew turboprops single pilot when luckily the company changed to 2 pilots. The guy passed out at the controls with severe food poisoning having flown SP all his life. The other pilot landed in France and the medics revived my friend

Pace

[Downwind Lander]

This sort of approach and attempt to land is what one might expect from a student pilot with 4 - 5 hours in the logbook. If the person flying wasn't very ill, then I continue to wonder if the left seat was occupied by a passenger who had had a certain amount of experience and was "having a go" at a landing. In this case, why didn't the presiding pilot shout "open up and round again"? (Possibly because this is not what you do in the presence of Middle Eastern billionaires).

[His dudeness]

You must agree there is a massive difference between a CJ1 and CJ4 but I believe theoretically they are covered by the same type rating although the insurance may demand a differences check.

Although that is not on topic any more...I disagree again. I have flown all CJs but the really new ones. (M, M2, 3+ and 4.) I donŽt see the massive difference. (maybe its just me ?) They all fly the same. Their cruise speed differs by quite a margin, but T/O and LDG ? no. Avionics ? Yes there is a difference. Hence the difference course youŽd have to do fly other models than the one you learned on. The ones without FADEC demand more than the newer ones with, but all in all
they are really easy airplanes to fly, as easy as the straightwingers you sit on - from what I hear from the P300 pilots based at my home base they are not exactly complicated or hard to fly airplanes either.

Lets face it, the guy screwed up, period.Whether heŽd tried this stunt with a CJ or a 747, as long as the LDR is longer than LDA, the outcome would have been basically the same....

but I still do not understand owners paying Millions and trying to save peanuts

I agree. Salesman pay a role in this, I know that for sure as I had secured a job on a CJ many years ago and the sales dude talked the would be owner out of having a copilot AND Simtraining, as the airplane was so easy to operate. Needless to say, when I turned down the job on these grounds the owner then employed 2 pilots - but I was already off to other pastures...

[Wycombe]

A DA2000 operates regularly in and out of EGLK and seems to do so (to my non-expert eyes) in a manner that makes the available tarmac look more than adequate.

I only mention this in order to illustrate what is obviously possible with an accurately operated aircraft.

[Pace]

I agree. Salesman pay a role in this, I know that for sure as I had secured a job on a CJ many years ago and the sales dude talked the would be owner out of having a copilot AND Simtraining, as the airplane was so easy to operate. Needless to say, when I turned down the job on these grounds the owner then employed 2 pilots - but I was already off to other pastures...

But this bit may be relevant to this crash. The problem with high speed jets is that when things go wrong they go wrong faster resulting in a much higher workload for the single pilot.

you may just have a sandbag in the right seat but at least that sandbag can take over certain functions lowering the workload.

This guy climbed to avoid other slow traffic and then descended at initially 3000 fpm and even close in was still descending at 2500 fpm trying to get on the glide.
result under that workload is that he arrived over the threshold into a short field at 135 KTS way over the VREF of 108.

At Blackbushe even if he had hit the numbers at 135 KTS he would have been hard pushed to stop in just the 1000 meters available.

2/3s down the runway with 400 meters available he had more chance of flying to the moon in the 300 than stopping.

He must have known that? So we can only summarise that the guy lost the plot and was overloaded!

I have in my twin piston days seen pilots go into brain freeze! One I was right seat to on a second missed approach in bad weather and my command to go around went blank pulled the nose up and did nothing. i had to take control from the right hitting power and lifting the gear and flaps as well as lowering the nose as the aircraft was fast approaching the stall
His only input was to raise the nose with a blank frozen expression

So I still wonder with two crew whether this accident would have happened?

Pace

[fireflybob]

I know this is basic but when teaching early students the circuit I demo and get them to practise Go Around from Downwind, Base Leg etc.

From the evidence so far it sounds as though it might have been appropriate to Go Around from Downwind and resequence into the circuit.

As we all know the key to the approach is Stability which this flight never seemed to achieve.