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Light Aircraft crash at Blackbushe.

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Light Aircraft crash at Blackbushe.

Old 2nd Aug 2015, 18:15
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Looking at the photo of the aircraft moments before crashing, it is obvious that they were too high as the building in the lower left hand corner of the photo is the Pheonix helicopter training building which is located a fair distance beyond the runway threshold perpendicular to runway 25.

I learnt to fly at this airfield and unless you are very confident or very slow than that would be a possible go around for a larger SEP yet alone a twin jet in that position.
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Old 2nd Aug 2015, 23:03
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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On the money

Pilot was very familiar with EGLK, at least 4 years on type, cavok, warm but not hot, v good vis. Getting it this wrong doesn't make any sense, unless...

Just sayin'
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Old 2nd Aug 2015, 23:11
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Given all the criticism of the final cct and landing, there could be a medical explanation. Syncope, for example; many possible causes. Pilot may not have called if SP since it would have been the end of his flying days, perhaps, it might alarm pax and in any case wouldn't serve any useful purpose. Would you call 'feeling woozy'? Don't suppose I would.
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Old 3rd Aug 2015, 07:49
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Lemain/velvet - experienced commercial pilots, in jets they know, at airfields they know, on nice days...... sometimes make mistakes. But they should go-around. The reason he didn't is the crux of this sad incident.

Thinking about it - I'd say complanency means there is a higher likelihood of a mistake on a nice day at a familiar airfield. You work hard at a complicated airfield on a stormy day.
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Old 3rd Aug 2015, 09:48
  #85 (permalink)  
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Sorry to speculate.. but ..

That circuit looks like one where the pilot wanted to get down at all costs. Very tight, and not really in control of speed or height.

Could be he was feeling unwell? Would explain the erratic vertical profile, and why he didn't go around.

Wouldn't explain why he didn't divert to an easier place like Farnborough tho'
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Old 3rd Aug 2015, 11:26
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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I landed a C152 at EGLK at approx. 13.45 (local), and did not experience any significant turbulence on either Downwind, Base or Final, and was advised by the Tower that the wind was "light and variable" on approach. However, I did have an extremely long "Float", and whereas I normally exit Runway 25 at the first turn-off, on this occasion I had to go onto the second. Could the "variable" bit have resulted in there being a tail-wind component as I was neither high nor fast?


Flying conditions were near perfect in the vicinity, with no problem maintaining heights.
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Old 3rd Aug 2015, 11:48
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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pilot fatigue

Perhaps we could make more of the indications that this pilot, 50+ years old, made two long international flights that day.

When I was young, a Canberra ferry to Malta was seen as a decent day's work. A navigator did virtually all of the en-route work and we had a spare with nothing useful to do. Station Flight saw us off and the resident squadron in Luqa looked after the aircraft on landing.

The accident pilot was not young. He did all the procedural work each way, was presumably closely involved in the turn-round and no doubt had to concentrate a bit on being nice to his passengers in a way that I never did.

OK, airline flight crews put in that much time (one of my sons being one of them) but the big difference is that the single pilot does everything. The accident pilot, used to it or not and physically failing or not, had absorbed a lot of stress by the time he hit the downwind leg.

Maybe the investigators will find no physical fault to explain the accident. So they must look into the Human Factors for the straw that perhaps broke the camel's back.
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Old 3rd Aug 2015, 12:17
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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Not Flown the Phenom so can only make reference to other slippery jets. In the G550 an extra 5kt on landing makes a difference. With everything out - flap 39, speed brake, gear down and throttles at idle stick back will cause a climb, forward stick, like any aircraft increases speed, its amazingly slippery! You therefore need to be at the right speed far enough out to manage the approach or go round. Swept wing slippery jets are nothing like straight wing piston types or heavy jets. If the graphic of the join and circuit is correct it was quite tight. There is no where to go at the end of that runway other than a car park so if your not sorted out by short final go round - overrun is not an option! And single pilot ops increase the work load significantly.
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Old 3rd Aug 2015, 13:51
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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This accident bears significant resemblance to the Air India Express accident at Mangalore: http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/4...738-crash.html

Can we assume that there will be FDR/CVR to help dissect the causes of this accident? Was the aircraft so equipped?

IMO, from the data available so far, this seems to be a human factors accident.
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Old 3rd Aug 2015, 15:06
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To quote the initial post, "..aircraft has apparently lost control". Really? Allahu Akbar! I'm done.

Last edited by evansb; 3rd Aug 2015 at 15:50.
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Old 3rd Aug 2015, 15:42
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Although it is (mostly informed) speculation about the cause of the accident-ie , unstable approach too high too fast and the FDR will confirm or correct this the second issue of why no go around/touch and go was executed will depend on whats on the CVR . BUT with single pilot operation what is likely to be on the CDR as there is no second pilot to coordinate with or to make call outs so it seems possible that second 'human' factor may remain something of a tragic mystery.
PB
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Old 3rd Aug 2015, 17:15
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Given the wealth of these people I am flummoxed why they don't operate dual pilot. Indeed in any public service -- which this is given that guests might be clients, etc. -- dual pilot should be the norm. Same with police helicopters (Glasgow?). When I was a kid we always thought that AAIB would find 'pilot error' -- often it wasn't, I'm sure. Today the reliability (not skill, but reliability of the machine that is Man) of the pilot is the weakest link.
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Old 3rd Aug 2015, 17:18
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Would this plane be carrying a CVR/FDR? I thought aircraft of this size were not required to have one.
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Old 3rd Aug 2015, 17:54
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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@Lemain
You will discover in time that generally the richer any person is the tighter they are.
So yes they might well have operated with two pilots and equally they might well have landed at Farnborough - both of which would have cost them significantly more MONEY.
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Old 3rd Aug 2015, 18:45
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DSC810 postulates that richer they are tighter they be and if they were not so then they would have two up front and gone to Farnborough. Yet in the G IV crash of 2014 in Hanson and the GIII crash at Aspen in 2001 there were two bods up front and I expect the pax at the rear end were not six pence short of a shilling.

The only time I can imagine the size of the wallet as a factor would be if it is not taken into reckoning when doing the weight and balance.
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Old 3rd Aug 2015, 20:45
  #96 (permalink)  
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Just as an observation, all of the Phenom accidents recorded at Aviation Safety Network are runway overruns.
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Old 4th Aug 2015, 18:15
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On the subject of tightness, the was a recent report on a near crash of a helicopter in Sussex. Pax and wife wanted to land at the home location, instead of driving to a perfectly decent airport not ten miles away, just over the border in Kent. Said pax and wife are not 11žd short of a shilling either.

There was a fatal helicopter crash in Scotland a few years ago that killed a wealthy pilot and his son. The flight was made to cover a distance of about 20 miles that could easily have been driven, considering the weather conditions at the time. Said pilot was not short of driving skills.
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Old 4th Aug 2015, 19:30
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Just a though which will, I'm sure, be investigated by AAIB.

Which seat was the Jordanian Pilot sat in? And was somebody sat in the "other" seat...
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Old 4th Aug 2015, 19:38
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I believe somewhere earlier in the thread it`s been mentioned that the pilot had 25 years flying experience under his belt. So it is not as if the lack of another could imply Scrooge or dare devil qualities for the owners.
For those who lived and can remember the tragic death of Onassis` son in his Piaggio out of Athens. He too had a highly experienced professional pilot. Unfortunately it was not sufficient protection to avoid his death. For those who may not be familiar with the event I would suggest a book titled "The deadly sins of Aristotle Onasis", written by Stuart M. Spencer. It is much more than just another crash.
In this instance it does bring into question as to who was in control at the time of the accident. In good time the AAIB will shed sufficient light on the subject.
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Old 6th Aug 2015, 14:35
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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First word from AAIB:

https://assets.digital.cabinet-offic...015_HZ-IBN.pdf
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