Network EBA
I think management want you to believe running an airline is alchemy but it’s nothing of the sort. It’s a big business with big machines and a bunch of operational staff and support services making it all happen. Airline management are little more than out of depth, politician schmoozing MBA’s who think they know boats.
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Agreed. There was a paywalled article from a few weeks ago that suggested the FWC said the issue was mostly the members not agreeing with the course set by the union?
“Pilots ignoring course set by union: FWC”
An "ineluctable finding" that the AFAP could not persuade pilot members at a Qantas subsidiary to vote up a new deal supported by the union has helped convince the FWC that it should make an intractable bargaining declaration sought by the airline.
If there’s already been two agreements between the two parties then that will be the path of least resistance out of the situation.
It took the FWC 15 months to decide the outcome of the AIPA/mainline situation post October 2011 so I don’t see this current case being wrapped up soon.
“Pilots ignoring course set by union: FWC”
An "ineluctable finding" that the AFAP could not persuade pilot members at a Qantas subsidiary to vote up a new deal supported by the union has helped convince the FWC that it should make an intractable bargaining declaration sought by the airline.
If there’s already been two agreements between the two parties then that will be the path of least resistance out of the situation.
It took the FWC 15 months to decide the outcome of the AIPA/mainline situation post October 2011 so I don’t see this current case being wrapped up soon.
No its not. Sorry with the likes of VA, QF, CX just to name a few, they are proof that a f..king moron or better yet a monkey could run an airline. Sorry it is clear you dont need a brain to run an airline. If you have money, not an endless desire of greed and an IQ above 90 I think you will do fine.
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Maybe. It’s no doubt come to the attention of the commissioners that Qantas desperately needs a face saving outcome here but, as many have mentioned, Fairwork will be making a lot of work for themselves if they go out of their way to protect IR’s fragile egos. Either way a lot of people aren’t waiting to find out what the result will be.
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This is exactly why this was a screwup by management. If this drags on for 6+ months there will be no staff left. Plenty of other options around atm and realistically if things improve at Network there will always be a spot for you to return - no seniority remember..
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The answer to that is that the AFAP had a position that the solution was the best achievable and its members had higher expectations. As it has panned out, time will who was right.
Have been watching this thread closely and not quoting anyone in particular here though, but just so you’re aware “backpay” isn’t typically part of fair work’s remit. It is usually used as an employer driven wedge, used as a threat. There is no allowance for back pay in the legislation nor requirement so if you’re worried about that element in particular I’d say the horse has bolted.. don’t vote based on back pay as there’s a high likelihood you won’t get it.
Network pilot numbers at Perth Roadshows will be reported and of course any resignations only adds to managements anxiety levels while everyone waits for the grown ups to decide . Good luck .
What’s important to remember is that Mineral Resources and Ellison are NOT trying to run an airline. They are trying to run a transportation arm of their multi-billion dollar mining company. That is the lens to view this entity through.
Mineral Resources and Ellison are NOT trying to run an airline. They are trying to run a transportation arm
No concerns about market share, no concerns about competitive pricing. No building a brand and trust. No advertising budget. Only one customer to satisfy and that is yourself. Simply get your employees and equipment to and from work.
What Part will it likely operate under? I might apply
Ps I don’t know who has been named as the HOFO……what is their experience?
I think management want you to believe running an airline is alchemy but it’s nothing of the sort. It’s a big business with big machines and a bunch of operational staff and support services making it all happen. Airline management are little more than out of depth, politician schmoozing MBA’s who think they know boats.
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What’s important to remember is that Mineral Resources and Ellison are NOT trying to run an airline. They are trying to run a transportation arm of their multi-billion dollar mining company. That is the lens to view this entity through.
Have been watching this thread closely and not quoting anyone in particular here though, but just so you’re aware “backpay” isn’t typically part of fair work’s remit. It is usually used as an employer driven wedge, used as a threat. There is no allowance for back pay in the legislation nor requirement so if you’re worried about that element in particular I’d say the horse has bolted.. don’t vote based on back pay as there’s a high likelihood you won’t get it.
I couldn’t help myself. The subject of this letter came up in conversation today so I had to find it, read it and post it here. How accurate it is….
I am an army of One - A Captain in the Continental Airlines army.
For years I was a loyal soldier in Gordon's army. Now I fight my own war.
I used to feel valued and respected. Now I know I am mere fodder. They (CAL) used to exhibit labor leadership. Now they exploit legal loopholes. They used to enjoy my maximum. Now they will suffer my minimum.
I am an army of One.
I used to save CAL a thousand pounds of fuel per leg; finding the best FL, getting direct routing, throttling back when on time was made, skimping during ground ops, adjusting for winds, being smart and giving the company every effort I could conjure. Now, it's "burn baby, burn". I used to call maintenance while airborne, so the part would be ready at the gate. Now, they will find the write-up when they look in the book. I used to try to fix problems in the system, now I sit and watch as the miscues pile up. I used to fly sick. Now I use my sick days, on short notice, on the worst day of the month.
I am an army of One.
I used to start the APU at the last possible moment. Now my customers enjoy extreme comfort. I used to let the price of fuel at out-stations affect my fuel orders. I still do. I used to cover mistakes by operations. Now I watch them unfold. I used to hustle to ensure an on-time arrival, to make us the best. Now I do it for the rampers and agents who need the bonus money...but this too may change. I used to call dispatch for rerouting, to head off ground delays for bad weather. Now i collect overs, number 35 in line for takeoff.
I am on a new mission - to demonstrate that misguided leadership of indifference & disrespect has a cost. It's about character, not contracts. It's about leading by taking care of your people instead of leadership by bean counters (an oxymoron). With acts of omission, not commission, I am a one-man wrecking crew - an army of One.
My mission used to be to make CAL rich. Now it's to make CAL pay.
When they furlough more pilots than the rest, pilots that cost them 60 cents on the dollar I will make them pay.
When they under-staff bases and over-work reserves to keep pilots downgraded, down-flowed, or downtrodden - I will make them pay.
When over-booked customers are denied boarding system wide, while jets are parked in the desert - I will make them pay.
When they force pilots, who have waited 12 years to become captains, to be FO's again - I will make them pay.
When they ask CAL pilots to show leadership at Express, and then deny them longevity –I will make them pay.
When they recall F/A's for the summer, just to furlough them again in the fall like migrant workers- I will make them pay.
When they constantly violate the letter and spirit of our contract, a contract that's a bargain by any measure, and force us to fight lengthy grievances - I will make them pay.
My negotiating committee speaks for me, but I act on my own. I am a walking nightmare to the bean counters that made me.
Are you listening? This mercenary has a lot of years left with this company; how long can you afford to keep me bitter?
I'm not looking for clauses in a contract; I am looking for a culture of commitment and caring. When I see it, I'll be a soldier for CAL again.
Until then, I am an army of One And I'm not alone!
I am an army of One - A Captain in the Continental Airlines army.
For years I was a loyal soldier in Gordon's army. Now I fight my own war.
I used to feel valued and respected. Now I know I am mere fodder. They (CAL) used to exhibit labor leadership. Now they exploit legal loopholes. They used to enjoy my maximum. Now they will suffer my minimum.
I am an army of One.
I used to save CAL a thousand pounds of fuel per leg; finding the best FL, getting direct routing, throttling back when on time was made, skimping during ground ops, adjusting for winds, being smart and giving the company every effort I could conjure. Now, it's "burn baby, burn". I used to call maintenance while airborne, so the part would be ready at the gate. Now, they will find the write-up when they look in the book. I used to try to fix problems in the system, now I sit and watch as the miscues pile up. I used to fly sick. Now I use my sick days, on short notice, on the worst day of the month.
I am an army of One.
I used to start the APU at the last possible moment. Now my customers enjoy extreme comfort. I used to let the price of fuel at out-stations affect my fuel orders. I still do. I used to cover mistakes by operations. Now I watch them unfold. I used to hustle to ensure an on-time arrival, to make us the best. Now I do it for the rampers and agents who need the bonus money...but this too may change. I used to call dispatch for rerouting, to head off ground delays for bad weather. Now i collect overs, number 35 in line for takeoff.
I am on a new mission - to demonstrate that misguided leadership of indifference & disrespect has a cost. It's about character, not contracts. It's about leading by taking care of your people instead of leadership by bean counters (an oxymoron). With acts of omission, not commission, I am a one-man wrecking crew - an army of One.
My mission used to be to make CAL rich. Now it's to make CAL pay.
When they furlough more pilots than the rest, pilots that cost them 60 cents on the dollar I will make them pay.
When they under-staff bases and over-work reserves to keep pilots downgraded, down-flowed, or downtrodden - I will make them pay.
When over-booked customers are denied boarding system wide, while jets are parked in the desert - I will make them pay.
When they force pilots, who have waited 12 years to become captains, to be FO's again - I will make them pay.
When they ask CAL pilots to show leadership at Express, and then deny them longevity –I will make them pay.
When they recall F/A's for the summer, just to furlough them again in the fall like migrant workers- I will make them pay.
When they constantly violate the letter and spirit of our contract, a contract that's a bargain by any measure, and force us to fight lengthy grievances - I will make them pay.
My negotiating committee speaks for me, but I act on my own. I am a walking nightmare to the bean counters that made me.
Are you listening? This mercenary has a lot of years left with this company; how long can you afford to keep me bitter?
I'm not looking for clauses in a contract; I am looking for a culture of commitment and caring. When I see it, I'll be a soldier for CAL again.
Until then, I am an army of One And I'm not alone!
The following 3 users liked this post by gordonfvckingramsay:
I couldn’t help myself. The subject of this letter came up in conversation today so I had to find it, read it and post it here. How accurate it is….
I am an army of One - A Captain in the Continental Airlines army.
For years I was a loyal soldier in Gordon's army. Now I fight my own war.
I used to feel valued and respected. Now I know I am mere fodder. They (CAL) used to exhibit labor leadership. Now they exploit legal loopholes. They used to enjoy my maximum. Now they will suffer my minimum.
I am an army of One.
I used to save CAL a thousand pounds of fuel per leg; finding the best FL, getting direct routing, throttling back when on time was made, skimping during ground ops, adjusting for winds, being smart and giving the company every effort I could conjure. Now, it's "burn baby, burn". I used to call maintenance while airborne, so the part would be ready at the gate. Now, they will find the write-up when they look in the book. I used to try to fix problems in the system, now I sit and watch as the miscues pile up. I used to fly sick. Now I use my sick days, on short notice, on the worst day of the month.
I am an army of One.
I used to start the APU at the last possible moment. Now my customers enjoy extreme comfort. I used to let the price of fuel at out-stations affect my fuel orders. I still do. I used to cover mistakes by operations. Now I watch them unfold. I used to hustle to ensure an on-time arrival, to make us the best. Now I do it for the rampers and agents who need the bonus money...but this too may change. I used to call dispatch for rerouting, to head off ground delays for bad weather. Now i collect overs, number 35 in line for takeoff.
I am on a new mission - to demonstrate that misguided leadership of indifference & disrespect has a cost. It's about character, not contracts. It's about leading by taking care of your people instead of leadership by bean counters (an oxymoron). With acts of omission, not commission, I am a one-man wrecking crew - an army of One.
My mission used to be to make CAL rich. Now it's to make CAL pay.
When they furlough more pilots than the rest, pilots that cost them 60 cents on the dollar I will make them pay.
When they under-staff bases and over-work reserves to keep pilots downgraded, down-flowed, or downtrodden - I will make them pay.
When over-booked customers are denied boarding system wide, while jets are parked in the desert - I will make them pay.
When they force pilots, who have waited 12 years to become captains, to be FO's again - I will make them pay.
When they ask CAL pilots to show leadership at Express, and then deny them longevity –I will make them pay.
When they recall F/A's for the summer, just to furlough them again in the fall like migrant workers- I will make them pay.
When they constantly violate the letter and spirit of our contract, a contract that's a bargain by any measure, and force us to fight lengthy grievances - I will make them pay.
My negotiating committee speaks for me, but I act on my own. I am a walking nightmare to the bean counters that made me.
Are you listening? This mercenary has a lot of years left with this company; how long can you afford to keep me bitter?
I'm not looking for clauses in a contract; I am looking for a culture of commitment and caring. When I see it, I'll be a soldier for CAL again.
Until then, I am an army of One And I'm not alone!
I am an army of One - A Captain in the Continental Airlines army.
For years I was a loyal soldier in Gordon's army. Now I fight my own war.
I used to feel valued and respected. Now I know I am mere fodder. They (CAL) used to exhibit labor leadership. Now they exploit legal loopholes. They used to enjoy my maximum. Now they will suffer my minimum.
I am an army of One.
I used to save CAL a thousand pounds of fuel per leg; finding the best FL, getting direct routing, throttling back when on time was made, skimping during ground ops, adjusting for winds, being smart and giving the company every effort I could conjure. Now, it's "burn baby, burn". I used to call maintenance while airborne, so the part would be ready at the gate. Now, they will find the write-up when they look in the book. I used to try to fix problems in the system, now I sit and watch as the miscues pile up. I used to fly sick. Now I use my sick days, on short notice, on the worst day of the month.
I am an army of One.
I used to start the APU at the last possible moment. Now my customers enjoy extreme comfort. I used to let the price of fuel at out-stations affect my fuel orders. I still do. I used to cover mistakes by operations. Now I watch them unfold. I used to hustle to ensure an on-time arrival, to make us the best. Now I do it for the rampers and agents who need the bonus money...but this too may change. I used to call dispatch for rerouting, to head off ground delays for bad weather. Now i collect overs, number 35 in line for takeoff.
I am on a new mission - to demonstrate that misguided leadership of indifference & disrespect has a cost. It's about character, not contracts. It's about leading by taking care of your people instead of leadership by bean counters (an oxymoron). With acts of omission, not commission, I am a one-man wrecking crew - an army of One.
My mission used to be to make CAL rich. Now it's to make CAL pay.
When they furlough more pilots than the rest, pilots that cost them 60 cents on the dollar I will make them pay.
When they under-staff bases and over-work reserves to keep pilots downgraded, down-flowed, or downtrodden - I will make them pay.
When over-booked customers are denied boarding system wide, while jets are parked in the desert - I will make them pay.
When they force pilots, who have waited 12 years to become captains, to be FO's again - I will make them pay.
When they ask CAL pilots to show leadership at Express, and then deny them longevity –I will make them pay.
When they recall F/A's for the summer, just to furlough them again in the fall like migrant workers- I will make them pay.
When they constantly violate the letter and spirit of our contract, a contract that's a bargain by any measure, and force us to fight lengthy grievances - I will make them pay.
My negotiating committee speaks for me, but I act on my own. I am a walking nightmare to the bean counters that made me.
Are you listening? This mercenary has a lot of years left with this company; how long can you afford to keep me bitter?
I'm not looking for clauses in a contract; I am looking for a culture of commitment and caring. When I see it, I'll be a soldier for CAL again.
Until then, I am an army of One And I'm not alone!
The following 4 users liked this post by Zeta_Reticuli:
Although I agree with the sentiments of the letter, there is no substitute for being a professional. It’s a shame employers can’t do the same but at the end of the day it’s a business. Burning excess fuel for the sake of it is unprofessional and just wasteful. You want to be paid more but happy to burn fuel which is the highest cost for an airline. Good luck doing this at other airlines. Here come the haters….
Although I agree with the sentiments of the letter, there is no substitute for being a professional. It’s a shame employers can’t do the same but at the end of the day it’s a business. Burning excess fuel for the sake of it is unprofessional and just wasteful. You want to be paid more but happy to burn fuel which is the highest cost for an airline. Good luck doing this at other airlines. Here come the haters….
If Management cannot treat or pay me as a professional then why should I be a professional? We are treated as a janitors. Also management do not act as professionals themselves so why should we? Saving fuel for airlines these days is pathetic. If we are never deserving of a liveable salary in their eyes than I shall do everything in my power to reduce their bonuses even if it is by one dollar!
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Although I agree with the sentiments of the letter, there is no substitute for being a professional. It’s a shame employers can’t do the same but at the end of the day it’s a business. Burning excess fuel for the sake of it is unprofessional and just wasteful. You want to be paid more but happy to burn fuel which is the highest cost for an airline. Good luck doing this at other airlines. Here come the haters….
I’ll drop work sick whenever it suits me and my family.
I had absolute loyalty before the constant manipulation and lying. Using another entity to threaten my career was the final straw.
I don’t think QF will ever get most of us back. The entire board would need removal for me to have any trust again.
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