LEEDS 5

[LBIA]

Thomson Holidays have added new route from Leeds/Bradford next summer 2015 with a weekly Tuesday departure to Crete Heraklion. Looks like the Palma flight has been retimed so the based aircraft will no longer be w-legging on a Tuesday as it has done for the past few years.

Leeds/Bradford: 06:50 > Palma: 10:30
Palma: 11:45 > Leeds/Bradford: 13:30
Leeds/Bradford: 15:00> Heraklion: 21:10
Heraklion: 22:10 > Leeds/Bradford: 00:40

[SWBKCB]

anothertyke - spot on!

[682ft AMSL]

Collectively we gain more from a strong European and long distance network out of Mcr with good ground connections than by diffusing the frequencies

That's the nub of it all really. Is it the case that the Leeds City Region is a net gainer from MAN? Or does MAN create net economic leakage of jobs and spend and make the Leeds region a less attractive place to invest compared to Manchester ?

I don't know the answer. I do know that some believe it's a one way deal - the Leeds City Region provides a very healthy feed of passengers into MAN but gets proportionality little of the benefit back in terms of jobs. Other's think differently, but in the absence of hard data it is hard to say.

[Manchester Kurt]

Local authorities and business organisations, who you would hope have a good idea, from West Yorks and other non-Manchester authorities, often call for decent connections to MAN as an important factor in improving the local economy as it opens international markets to them.


Reality is MAN is much closer to much of West Yorks than LHR is to eastern parts of Greater London.

[cumbrianboy]

I'd say there is a big difference between people from an area using an airport, eg people of Leeds using manchester, as opposed to manchester fully serving the needs of Leeds. Eg where does most of the investment go? Manchester.

So, is manchester doing everything for Leeds? No, but people of Leeds use it be because they have no choice but the city doesn't benefit as much as it could if the services where available at Leeds.

Same true in London. Which is richer and more affluent? East or west London? Yes I know Canary Wharf and the financial district is in the east, but that works because of city Airport, and in fact it's what supports city (like oil in Aberdeen) Heathrow drives economic development along the m4 corridor, again people in East London use heathrow because they have to, but the investment goes around the M4 ... Or the cities with a direct air to Heathrow to give seamless trouble free(ish) journey.

The problem is, going back to Leeds, Leeds probably can't replicate the services manchester has alone so it's a viscous circle ...

[Manchester Kurt]

That suggests its a zero sum game.


Reality is what can be good for Manc, strong airport serving many destinations, can also be good for Leeds, Sheffield, Liverpool etc.

[roverman]

West Yorkshire to MAN

West Yorkshire is set to get better rail connections to Manchester Airport once the 4th platform is in operation at the airport station and the Ordsall Curve is built.

"Direct services from Bradford, Halifax and Rochdale to Manchester Airport will be introduced. It also aims to increase the number of hourly trains between Manchester and Leeds and reduce journey times between the two cities by ten minutes".

BBC News - Northern Hub £600m rail work starts at Manchester Airport

[eggc]

Without belittling these airports, I feel for those supporters of LBA, NCL, LPL etc as it is a mini version of MAN v LHR argument.

I think the reality is the UK can only support one hub (LHR), just as the north can only support one airport the size of, with the routes of, and the connectivity of, Manchester...frustrating for all in ways, but it's real world.

[snowman 1]

west yorkshire to man

I live on south east side of leeds and it takes me 25mins to get to LBA so the train is of no great use to me,have only flown from man once in 8 years and that was because our destination was not available from leeds or Doncaster
just my own thoughts
sm1

[LEEDS APPROACH]

LBIAs potential

I am realistic about LBIA. It will never ever be a rival to Manchester airport for so many reasons as posters have described - its location within West Yorks., its height above sea level and associated weather, its runway orientation and current length and yes space is very tight etc etc. It will be a capped airport in terms of passenger throughput. What that cap will be as aviation progresses is not definite. It is a long long way from maximum passenger throughput though and the government agree with that and have backed the airport to expand, even if expansion is problematic.


Virtually the only positive of LBIA over all other airports in the North of England is its central location within the North. West Yorkshire and Leeds are at the crossroads of all the heavily urbanised cities and this is my point. If the airport can be connected properly to Leeds city railway station, which by the time of HS2 or before will be the busiest railway station in Britain (outside of London) and if the road networks can be linked to LBIA from the M62/M1 interchange area a lot better than they presently are then the airport will become much more attractive to millions of potential customers who at present don't even give the airport a second thought because of the annoyance in getting there compared to Manchester.


LBIA really is the prime example of catch 22. 'we cant build a road or rail link because you haven't got enough passengers to make it pay'. But I say you make the airport easily accessible within West Yorks. and millions of people from Liverpool, Sheffield, Newcastle, Doncaster, Manchester, Middlesbrough, Hull, Blackburn as well as booming West Yorkshire will have a simple almost equally short trip to get there. Obviously private owners of rival airports do not want this to happen.


The railway link from the Harrogate line would not require a tunnel just a cutting and is more than possible and that is why it has been chosen but it should be done now not in the medium to long term whatever that means.

[eggc]

Why on earth would anyone west of Oldham travel to LBA even if it was easy ?

They have MAN and LPL which offer every route Leeds can.

The only reason folk from t'other side of the hills come to MAN is usually they can't reach their destination from Leeds.

[eye2eye5]

LBA

Absolutely wrong, EGGC. You would be surprised at the number of people who travel reasonable distances to avail themselves of flights which are either cheaper or better timed. The last time I flew from Liverpool to Gran Canaria, I travelled with passengers from Barnsley and Lichfield who quite reasonably could have flown more easily from Manchester or Birmingham.

[eggc]

I'm just the opposite. I have MAN 2 miles down the road...all journeys start there for us, always have and always will. There really is no amount of saving (within reason) would see me use LBA, or LPL come to that.

I must admit though when flying into MAN I do see folk from all over...my over riding thought is "poor sods"...I'll be home by time you reach the M60...it must be horrible having a long road / rail trip after a flight...but more people must do it than I think. I'm ever so glad I live so close, despite not being able to hear the TV every 5 mins when a/c arrive !

[LEEDS APPROACH]

The point is eggc that if the playing field is made more level than it is at present (heavily in MANs favour) then LBA becomes the better placed airport [geographically]. A hub airport in West Yorks is better placed for East Yorkshire, North East and South Yorkshire passengers and yet still remains close to Liverpool and Manchester. People from Newcastle would prefer to catch a train to LBA rather than costlier and longer distance Manchester. Newcastle's catchment is considerably less than LBAs. With better internal West Yorkshire connection to the airport Leeds would do what Manchester has been helped to do for years ie pulling some passengers from all areas. Basically Leeds has a bigger 2 hour catchment than Manchester but is never considered because of the last 15 miles. Change that and you change the game. Grow the passengers and then you can grow the infrastructure of even the most difficult airports like LBA.

[eye2eye5]

LBA

And I should have added, EGGC, that my boss lives in Sale but thinks nothing of using LPL if the timings are better. Passengers have more choice these days and tend to look rather beyond the most immediate option. Perhaps you should too........

[phil5001]

I've not followed this entire thread but LBA is one of my "local" airports. Durham Tees Valley is a couple of miles down the road but has a poor destination offer. LBA is an hour or so away if you're driving, NCL much the same unless you get stuck in Metrocentre traffic on the A69 and then it can be longer. The difference is that I can get to NCL by train and Metro, I can't do that to LBA, so that's what swings the decision.

[eggc]

I would not travel an hour, or more, to save what, maybe £20, on a flight to Spain etc, which is only what is on offer from LPL and LBA.

The travel and hassle of the journeys is not worth it, for what can only be a minimal saving.

MAN (and LPL to a lesser extent) have all bases covered with Jet2, EZY and RYR, all at prices not to far off whats offered elsewhere. There really is little need, even financially, for people to travel to Leeds who would are closer to LPL and MAN.

The only leakage I can understand would be from LPL and LBA to MAN to make use of services not offered there.

I'm not arguing against the development of transport links to LBA here by the way, just saying from the west side of the pennines there are excellent transport links to airports and massive range of air services, which without doubt reduce the need for travel to Leeds.

[G-FORZ]

New road infrastructure for LBA is unlikely given the densely populated approach from the South and the distance to major arteries from the North and East. DSA will represent the best potential Yorkshire hub when FARRS is completed next year - the road was always in the bigger plan. its interesting to note that Weatherly to DSA will take only 15 mins more than current journey times Wetherby to LBA. For anywhere South of Wetherby along the A1 corridor the difference in journey time will be insignificant, this also takes in places East of the A1 such as York.

[LBIA]

I can do the A1 to LBA in 25 mins. Only traffic you might get is going up pool bank. Last flight I flew out of LBA there was a load of jordies onboard. The person sat next to me was from Sunderland and she used Leeds because Ryanair was here. Say no more.

[HOODED]

I thought that when the council's sold the airport they said they would use some of the money to improve road links to the airport. Well they've had a fair few years since then and what has been done??