LEEDS 5
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Nope, no real votes in spending a lot of money on the airport, whereas lots of little more local schemes, makes them look like they doing something..The sort of stuff they put on their re election leaflets....Its called politics which is why nothing is going to get spent on further access to the airport probably ever....simples
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Topical indeed as one of the projects is: "A65 to the Airport Link Road, Leeds"
List of transport schemes | Insider Media
List of transport schemes | Insider Media
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LBIA - vision and values
Just been reading the new updated website of LBIA.
Had a look at the vision and values section as well the 4 years late masterplan (not yet finished). Complete load of new age waffle! If I wanted visions I'd go to Lourdes. What people of the region want to know is when the the airport owners are going to actually build airport infrastructure? Actual plans and dates please for apron space, taxiways, terminal enlargement etc etc not pie in the sky claptrap.
Real plans and real dates please Bridgepoint as the weather shelter erected along the apron was not shown on the previous masterplan on your website.
No visions - real plans and real dates of construction - so that the local community is kept informed.
Had a look at the vision and values section as well the 4 years late masterplan (not yet finished). Complete load of new age waffle! If I wanted visions I'd go to Lourdes. What people of the region want to know is when the the airport owners are going to actually build airport infrastructure? Actual plans and dates please for apron space, taxiways, terminal enlargement etc etc not pie in the sky claptrap.
Real plans and real dates please Bridgepoint as the weather shelter erected along the apron was not shown on the previous masterplan on your website.
No visions - real plans and real dates of construction - so that the local community is kept informed.
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Bad Wind Apparantly
Seems LBA is closed at present due to very strong winds, which it is susceptible to. KLM and Aer Lingus have cancelled flights with both departures and arrivals delayed..No mention yet of buses to manchester
Actual plans and dates please for apron space, taxiways, terminal enlargement etc etc not pie in the sky claptrap.
Last edited by N707ZS; 22nd Dec 2014 at 21:38. Reason: Spelling
The BBC is saying that 'thousands of passengers' were delayed by the weather at Leeds/Bradford today.
I find it astonishing.....
...that 'thousands' of people really want to travel to/from that wretched place.
I find it astonishing.....
...that 'thousands' of people really want to travel to/from that wretched place.
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Paully
I do not think Beagle was trolling. I used to fly in and out of there many times with BMI on the LHR shuttle in the 80,s, but in winter I would stay away due to the weather, like we have currently got, which then normally would end up with a trip to Teeside or Manchester. I gave up, and to be honest and would not go back either. I also had a windswept landing at Manchester today, but its not on top of a hill with a runway pointing the wrong way so no big thing !.
As for all this talk of new rail links and motorways I think somebody started celebrating too early and got carried away. There is no money or appetite for a rail or road link. The airports too small, in the wrong place, and at the wrong height, never mind the runway direction. The majority of its catchment areas population can easily reach Manchester or East Midlands, or in the North of the region Teeside or Newcastle. There is not the critical mass required. You may want an airport the size of Manchester but it is not going to happen. A better plan would be to shut it, and move it to East of Leeds where you could point the runway in the right direction and have good rail and road links but I would still doubt you would get the passenger numbers of Man.
Regards
Mr Mac
I do not think Beagle was trolling. I used to fly in and out of there many times with BMI on the LHR shuttle in the 80,s, but in winter I would stay away due to the weather, like we have currently got, which then normally would end up with a trip to Teeside or Manchester. I gave up, and to be honest and would not go back either. I also had a windswept landing at Manchester today, but its not on top of a hill with a runway pointing the wrong way so no big thing !.
As for all this talk of new rail links and motorways I think somebody started celebrating too early and got carried away. There is no money or appetite for a rail or road link. The airports too small, in the wrong place, and at the wrong height, never mind the runway direction. The majority of its catchment areas population can easily reach Manchester or East Midlands, or in the North of the region Teeside or Newcastle. There is not the critical mass required. You may want an airport the size of Manchester but it is not going to happen. A better plan would be to shut it, and move it to East of Leeds where you could point the runway in the right direction and have good rail and road links but I would still doubt you would get the passenger numbers of Man.
Regards
Mr Mac
IF Leeds city Council had not actively opposed the development of LBA for over ten year and IF the A1 – M1 link had been aligned along the Pudsey – Dishforth route, LBA might have been in a substantially better situation today. The Airport is now, to some extent, paying the price for those decisions.
What those decisions would not have changed is the abject location of the site [from a geographic and aviation perspective]. At 680feet amsl in these latitudes with a big dipper style runway aligned across the prevailing wind; massive earth works required for each and every construction project [particularly aircraft movement areas]; abysmal surface connections [arguably the worst of any UK airport]; limited navaids in the Rwy14 direction, it is difficult to envisage the 7 million plus passenger throughput forecast by the Dft.
The £90m cost of a rail link [talked about for some 40 years] makes the realisation of such a link improbable, particularly in the present financial circumstances. Moreover, as mentioned in an earlier post, something of the order of 10 million airport passengers are required before a rail link becomes a viable addition. Manchester had well into the teens of passengers before the rail link was planned and not only that, the rail companies have provided direct services, to and from MAN, to/from a wide range of northern locations. Such rail route development to/from LBA is difficult, although I accept not impossible, to foresee. It appears to me that a significant proportion of passengers using such a link would be required to change trains at Leeds City……..in which case it might be better to change to a train going to MAN, where a better range of air services is provided.
As West Yorkshire born and bred, it greaves me to say this but LBA is a compromise in every respect. Development only continued in the 1980s because the local politicians couldn’t find an alternative site offering the desirable qualities; the nearest location chosen was Thorne Waste; there was also speculation about the use of RAF Church Fenton as a civil airport, neither being exactly adjacent to a substantial part of the West Yorkshire populous. The advent of RAF Finningley as a civil airport, quite close to Thorne Waste, has not proved particularly popular with the West Yorkshire folks.
I suspect that it will be difficult to justify spending/investing any substantial amounts of money [public or private] on further development at LBA. This is probably the reason why LBA has always generated a considerable amount of discussion and debate but not a lot in terms of actual infrastructure development, hence its present passenger numbers after some 60 years of civil use.
Now if they had been able to extend the old Rwy10/28………………
H49
What those decisions would not have changed is the abject location of the site [from a geographic and aviation perspective]. At 680feet amsl in these latitudes with a big dipper style runway aligned across the prevailing wind; massive earth works required for each and every construction project [particularly aircraft movement areas]; abysmal surface connections [arguably the worst of any UK airport]; limited navaids in the Rwy14 direction, it is difficult to envisage the 7 million plus passenger throughput forecast by the Dft.
The £90m cost of a rail link [talked about for some 40 years] makes the realisation of such a link improbable, particularly in the present financial circumstances. Moreover, as mentioned in an earlier post, something of the order of 10 million airport passengers are required before a rail link becomes a viable addition. Manchester had well into the teens of passengers before the rail link was planned and not only that, the rail companies have provided direct services, to and from MAN, to/from a wide range of northern locations. Such rail route development to/from LBA is difficult, although I accept not impossible, to foresee. It appears to me that a significant proportion of passengers using such a link would be required to change trains at Leeds City……..in which case it might be better to change to a train going to MAN, where a better range of air services is provided.
As West Yorkshire born and bred, it greaves me to say this but LBA is a compromise in every respect. Development only continued in the 1980s because the local politicians couldn’t find an alternative site offering the desirable qualities; the nearest location chosen was Thorne Waste; there was also speculation about the use of RAF Church Fenton as a civil airport, neither being exactly adjacent to a substantial part of the West Yorkshire populous. The advent of RAF Finningley as a civil airport, quite close to Thorne Waste, has not proved particularly popular with the West Yorkshire folks.
I suspect that it will be difficult to justify spending/investing any substantial amounts of money [public or private] on further development at LBA. This is probably the reason why LBA has always generated a considerable amount of discussion and debate but not a lot in terms of actual infrastructure development, hence its present passenger numbers after some 60 years of civil use.
Now if they had been able to extend the old Rwy10/28………………
H49
Saturday 27 Dec. 158 passengers managed to get to the airport on time for an early flight. Monarch engineering had the ac prepped and ready to go. Doors closed on time, Captain tell us that only one of the 2 runway deicing machines is working this morning. Runway an hour late opening because of this. This lack of redundancy in safety critical infrastructure is concerning perhaps Bridgepoint should concentrate on getting a grip on the essentials and provide a decent service rather than worrying about expansion.
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If someone took over your local butchers and then said to their customers 'we don't have enough money to buy any meat to sell' then people would rightly describe them as not being fit for purpose.
LBA needed massive investment when it was sold. This was clearly stated at the time and everyone in the aviation industry and the Leeds city region knew it. There was absolutely no point in selling it to a company that could not inject that investment. This is why the airport is now going backwards while competing airports are surging ahead.
The people of West Yorkshire deserve so much more.
Last edited by LEEDS APPROACH; 7th Jan 2015 at 19:54. Reason: spelling
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Originally Posted by LEEDS APPROACH:8815008
If someone took over your local butchers and then said to their customers 'we don't have enough money to buy any meat to sell' then people would rightly describe them as not being fit for purpose.
LBA needed massive investment when it was sold. This was clearly stated at the time and everyone in the aviation industry and the Leeds city region knew it. There was absolutely no point in selling it to a company that could not inject that investment. This is why the airport is now going backwards while competing airports are surging ahead.
The people of West Yorkshire deserve so much more.
The DfT mandate a minimum service, own the tracks and own the trains.
The WCML makes a profit.
Leeds airport was sold by the local authority to a private enterprise, a private enterprise that has shareholders that expect a return on their investment and not to be a charity interested in developing the West Yorkshire economy.
The WCML makes a profit
Not overall it doesn't. The train operators, Virgin and London Midland at this end, are profitable. The whole edifice though stands on a massive government subsidy. If the passengers met the full cost it would fail.
Which is not to say that should be allowed to happen. London would grind to a halt pretty quickly without its workforce.
It does make comparing air and rail bananas v elephants arithmetic.
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Pretty sure the WCML Virgin services make a huge profit, with no need for state subsidy, yes, some services take a subsidy but Virgin WCML isn't one to the best of my knowledge.
Pretty sure the WCML Virgin services make a huge profit, with no need for state subsidy, yes, some services take a subsidy but Virgin WCML isn't one to the best of my knowledge.
It would take for more time than I've got now to fish out the detail from Roger Ford's copy in Modern Railways over the years. Two pieces from newsapers a t opposite ends of the political spectrum give a flavour:
No way to run a grown-up railway - Telegraph
The truth about Richard Branson's Virgin Rail profits | Aditya Chakrabortty | Comment is free | The Guardian
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So no growth for Ryanair this year, but we may get a new route to Germany in 2016. Looks like Welcome to Yorkshire along with Bridgepoint Capital have some catching up to do regarding marketing wise. As it seem Ryanair think we are lagging behind compared to Liverpool and Manchester.
Riga is not a new route, it just going year round operation. LBA has in fact lost its routes to Milan Bergamo and Gerona this summer.
."
Riga is not a new route, it just going year round operation. LBA has in fact lost its routes to Milan Bergamo and Gerona this summer.
Ryanair's charm offensive leads to fast growth - and marketing advice for Yorkshire
14th January 2015
SENIOR staff from Ryanair flew into Leeds Bradford Airport yesterday as part of the airline's three-year charm offensive to reposition the brand.
The company built its reputation on low-cost flights but its chief executive Michael O'Leary revelled in the no-frills approach and became renowned for his uncompromising approach to customers.
Under pressure from shareholders and, as Europe's largest airline, with the role of upstart no longer fitting the company's image, Ryanair embarked on a serious plan to change the company without altering its low-cost approach.
"Lots of the things we have done have cost nothing," said Kenny Jacobs, Ryanair's chief marketing officer, as he talked about allowing passengers to take two bags on board and allocated seating - two of the simple, but successful, things that form part of its three-year Always Getting Better programme.
About 25m euro (£20m) has been spent, including on an overhaul of its website that has seen it reduce the transaction from 17 clicks down to just five to book a flight.
Mr Jacobs added: "The industry KPI is average cost per passenger minus fuel. Because we have had a step-up in passengers from 81m to 90m, the average cost stays flat because it's worked so well, so quickly."
That annual growth of 9m passengers - which Ryanair delights as describing as having added almost the same number of passengers as Irish rival Aer Lingus carries in total - is to be continued. Ryanair is targeting 160m passengers by 2024, which it is planning for by investing in 380 new aircraft so that it will have a fleet of 520 within a decade.
Its UK operation currently handles 32m passengers a year, which it expects to increase to 36m in the next two years.
Although there are no immediate plans for this growth to benefit Leeds Bradford Airport - yesterday just one new route was announced, to Riga, Latvia, adding to the existing 20 - it is likely that a Germany route will be available in 2016, with other additions possible as the new aircraft allow for extra routes where demand is highest.
Mr Jacobs praised the Airport, which handles about 800,000 Ryanair passengers a year, accounting for one-quarter of the Airport's total. He called on the region's tourism and inward investment agencies to constantly review and improve its marketing strategy.
"It's a very efficient airport and well run," he said. "We need more aircraft and an ongoing good deal for us to be able to take more of the capacity that we have coming on stream to work.
"The region needs the best marketing plan within Britain to get people around Europe to visit Yorkshire.
"So I would always ask that never say that the marketing plan for getting Europeans to visit Yorkshire is good enough, just constantly do what we are doing about 'always getting better'. Always work at it because the guys over in Liverpool and Manchester are working on their plan to get people to choose Liverpool or Manchester over choosing Yorkshire.
"Always work at that and tell the great story that Yorkshire has to tell
14th January 2015
SENIOR staff from Ryanair flew into Leeds Bradford Airport yesterday as part of the airline's three-year charm offensive to reposition the brand.
The company built its reputation on low-cost flights but its chief executive Michael O'Leary revelled in the no-frills approach and became renowned for his uncompromising approach to customers.
Under pressure from shareholders and, as Europe's largest airline, with the role of upstart no longer fitting the company's image, Ryanair embarked on a serious plan to change the company without altering its low-cost approach.
"Lots of the things we have done have cost nothing," said Kenny Jacobs, Ryanair's chief marketing officer, as he talked about allowing passengers to take two bags on board and allocated seating - two of the simple, but successful, things that form part of its three-year Always Getting Better programme.
About 25m euro (£20m) has been spent, including on an overhaul of its website that has seen it reduce the transaction from 17 clicks down to just five to book a flight.
Mr Jacobs added: "The industry KPI is average cost per passenger minus fuel. Because we have had a step-up in passengers from 81m to 90m, the average cost stays flat because it's worked so well, so quickly."
That annual growth of 9m passengers - which Ryanair delights as describing as having added almost the same number of passengers as Irish rival Aer Lingus carries in total - is to be continued. Ryanair is targeting 160m passengers by 2024, which it is planning for by investing in 380 new aircraft so that it will have a fleet of 520 within a decade.
Its UK operation currently handles 32m passengers a year, which it expects to increase to 36m in the next two years.
Although there are no immediate plans for this growth to benefit Leeds Bradford Airport - yesterday just one new route was announced, to Riga, Latvia, adding to the existing 20 - it is likely that a Germany route will be available in 2016, with other additions possible as the new aircraft allow for extra routes where demand is highest.
Mr Jacobs praised the Airport, which handles about 800,000 Ryanair passengers a year, accounting for one-quarter of the Airport's total. He called on the region's tourism and inward investment agencies to constantly review and improve its marketing strategy.
"It's a very efficient airport and well run," he said. "We need more aircraft and an ongoing good deal for us to be able to take more of the capacity that we have coming on stream to work.
"The region needs the best marketing plan within Britain to get people around Europe to visit Yorkshire.
"So I would always ask that never say that the marketing plan for getting Europeans to visit Yorkshire is good enough, just constantly do what we are doing about 'always getting better'. Always work at it because the guys over in Liverpool and Manchester are working on their plan to get people to choose Liverpool or Manchester over choosing Yorkshire.
"Always work at that and tell the great story that Yorkshire has to tell