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Old 13th Dec 2014, 10:02
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eggc-- there is also a bit of leakage to Liverpool. Easyjet offer some destinations like Zurich, Geneva, Madrid which at some times in the past have been on more convenient schedules and/or cheaper than out of Manchester. Forty mins more on the road each way can sometimes be worth it.

The point about the WSP report where all this started is that it makes a fairly good case for the link road from the A65. It will be a controversial scheme but it could yet happen. It's the sort of scheme which Leeds, Bradford and Wakefield districts might all back.
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Old 13th Dec 2014, 10:19
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White Rose versus Red Rose anyone ?
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Old 13th Dec 2014, 10:21
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In the next two weeks devolvement of Leeds city region will be announced and the road link will be backed. An LBIA parkway train station as a stopap minimum should also be backed . I hope LCR has the vision to get on with these critically needed infrastructure developments as they will pay for themselves in the near future.
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Old 13th Dec 2014, 10:46
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anothertyke - yes, I do see a few travel to LPL from MAN area, hell a couple of times I have myself, but that was really before RYR and EZY became so big at MAN, although I have no doubt people still do it.

I'd fully support improved roads to LBA (not sure a do'able rail is) but what I'm saying it will have far more effect for those east of the pennines than what it would to those west and would attract few passengers from over here, but Leeds really does needs these improved connections urgently.
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Old 13th Dec 2014, 14:57
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Originally Posted by LBIA
I can do the A1 to LBA in 25 mins. Only traffic you might get is going up pool bank. Last flight I flew out of LBA there was a load of jordies onboard. The person sat next to me was from Sunderland and she used Leeds because Ryanair was here. Say no more.
So basically, you're admitting that access to LBIA isn't a problem, and that people from outside the area are able to get to the airport without a train station........
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Old 13th Dec 2014, 15:59
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Andy S Yes you are right - people can get to the airport without a problem. I know people in Scotland who have travelled to LBA - no problem, as I have, and also met some from Durham and Teesside who prefer LBA over NCL but a train station would be a fine alternative to driving.
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Old 13th Dec 2014, 16:31
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I'm sure it would, but "nice to have" isn't sufficient justification for the huge expense it would incur.
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Old 13th Dec 2014, 17:14
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'Andy S Yes you are right - people can get to the airport without a problem. I know people in Scotland who have travelled to LBA - no problem, as I have, and also met some from Durham and Teesside who prefer LBA over NCL but a train station would be a fine alternative to driving.'

By road LBA is fine from the NE. On public transport it's not ideal, the train direct to MAN from Newcastle Station takes around an hour longer than it takes to get to Leeds - and you don't have to get off, and onto a crappy bus with all of your luggage for another half hour afterwards.

Perhaps the Ryanair flying-Mackem girl will put up with it to save 15, many wouldn't.
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Old 13th Dec 2014, 17:43
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Hence a Airport Parkway station on the York Harrogate Leeds line would be an advantage if a free shuttle bus ran up the airport. In time then and if successful extending the line up to the airport would be the next move. Ideally taking the line over to Guiseley then Bradford would benefit many others, not just airport users so that a Bradford to York or even Newcastle service could be provided but I agree that is unlikely and very costly.
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Old 13th Dec 2014, 17:45
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I see a shed load of hypocrisy from a certain poster on this thread, given the support over the development of a certain other airport which has been and continues to be funded by large sums of public money...
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Old 13th Dec 2014, 19:21
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I've flown from LBA a number of times and a new road link would definitely help ... though didn't I read somewhere where it was supposed to be an expressway for a bus link? The problem LBA has to overcome though, concerning public money, especially if it is from the Council, is that they might have made something out of the sale and made promises to put some into the airport etc. but that was before the horrendous cuts they are having to cope with. In the present political climate of cut, cut, cut trusting that what was there one year will still be there the next is unadvisable. The difference between LBA and the 'other' airport development receiving public money is that the 'other' development is not just about the airport. Without it, it might not have been obtained but it is regenerating a very large area which, by God, definitely needed it.(I used to live around there!) If LBA could make a case for the money it needs and developments it needs regenerating or supporting needy local areas and more than just the airport it might get a lot more 'public' funding.
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Old 14th Dec 2014, 07:59
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Not rocket science

Andy S it's not a question of 'it would be nice to have'. It is something that the West Yorkshire region and Yorkshire as a whole needs and has done for the last 30+ years. We are not talking about a monorail from Skipton to the airport and we are not talking about an airport that serves shrewsbury, wisbech or matlock. We are not even talking about building a new railway line to LBIA-we are talking about building a short extension off an existing railway line to an airport that has 3 million people on its doorstep and yet millions of them choose to go Manchester because money has not been spent on their local public transport. The figures in that report clearly show that. A short link that will connect the airport to it's city's station. A station that sits at the very centre of the North and is very well connected to all of it. A station that will soon have HS2. People in Sheffield will be able to get to Leeds in 10 minutes but it will take them 4 times as long to then get to the airport! (without the airport link) - what kind of logic is that from a government that wants to move more people on to public transport?


There is no logical reason on this planet why that railway cutting and extension should not be built immediately.
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Old 14th Dec 2014, 09:11
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Originally Posted by LEEDS APPROACH
....an airport that has 3 million people on its doorstep and yet millions of them choose to go Manchester....
Your arguments are full of contradictions. You've already said that the airport is easy enough to get to and is attracting passengers from outside the area. Now you're suggesting that it's is leaking passengers to Manchester because they can't get to LBIA.....

Originally Posted by LEEDS APPROACH
There is no logical reason on this planet why that railway cutting and extension should not be built immediately.
That's what I love about you enthusiasts. The practicalities and costs of your wish lists never even enter your reasoning.
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Old 14th Dec 2014, 09:22
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Leeds Approach

One simple question?

How much do you think that cutting and station would cost?

Answers on a post card

a) 100'000
b) 1M
c)10m
d)100m
e)200m
f)300m
g)500m
h)1Bn
In considering your answer i would suggest a tunnel will cheaper than a cutting, think of all the services, sewers, energy services, overpasses, bridges, farm access roads animal overpasses, the Government estimates the new 1.8m tunnel under stonehenge will cost 1.2 bn !!!

So lets suppose LBIA could jump from 3.2m pax to 5m then over 10 years that would be 50m, so that would mean a subsidy of 10 per passenger just for the capital costs alone, thats without running it, maintaining it, or paying a cent in interest. I don't think you could build it for less than a 1Bn & i don't see LBIA getting close to 5m pax anytime soon either.

I think we all think it would be nice to have, but who pays?? add a 10 or 20 levy to every passenger that uses LBIA ? the good folk of Leeds will drive to Manchester before paying that.
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Old 14th Dec 2014, 09:53
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I think the nearest answer is d). Obviously the UK taxpayer pays and APD will also be abolished. Can't see any problems with that.
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Old 14th Dec 2014, 10:08
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Railway Finance

Interesting website. Train station at Southend cost 12.5m Us$ for a station on track already built with trains already running and access already provided.

Estimates are US$100-300million PER KILOMETER of track. To drive from Leeds City centre to the airport is 13.8KM and the landis hilly, densely populated. Plus new trains are needed, electrified to keep it in line with emissions policy, tunnelling will be required etc etc

I believe a branch line operates near the airport which is good and reduces the distance but that would need upgrading plus all the hidden costs, finance, consultants, section 106, environmental, etc and that's before you run it. Plus how often do trains run, is capacity available at Leeds and in the east coast mainline to allow extra trains to run ...?

Manchester was around 10-12 million passengers before they thought it was cost effective to build a station, Liverpool hovers around the 4/4.5m mark and that wasn't cost effect to bring a station into the airport even though the tracks are only less than a mile away.

It would be great if Leeds had a rail link but I do think it's a pipe dream
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Old 14th Dec 2014, 10:21
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Leeds has to major disadvantages in respect of major expansion - it is physically constrained (isn't it virtually full already overnight?) and MAN is just down the road (so it has lost first mover advantage in the markets it would want to expand into).

It will continue with organic growth in it's current markets but no amount of investment in public transport is going to turn it into an alternative hub airport for the north - that opportunity was lost when a new airport wasn't built near the A1/M1/M62.
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Old 14th Dec 2014, 12:36
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I think it's a shame that things were not different, and it was RAF Church Fenton sold a long time ago, before all the investment was spent at LBIA/RAF Yeadon.

Church Fenton is located within 3 national rail lines, the A1 is very close too. Links to the whole of the east coast and north of England would be a dream compared to where LBIA is. This is before you factor in the cross runways and the much better weather Fenton would have offered. Church Fenton has just been sold, be interesting to see what happens to it, but obviously new housing would be the safest bet!
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Old 14th Dec 2014, 13:17
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Church Fenton has a few listed parts from WWII, there are also at least two decent hangars.
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Old 14th Dec 2014, 13:31
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Andy S. I think you are mixing what someone else has said in their post? 90% of LBIAs passenger originate from Yorkshire but the point is, as I've stated, the airport if connected up much better within West Yorks. would then be attractive to potential passengers from all over the North.

There is zero contradiction in what I am saying. The airport's 'central to North' geographic location is ideal. It's location within West Yorkshire is not ideal. Only when it is better connected to the Motorway network and to the soon to be busiest railway station in Britain outside of London, will LBIAs true potential be realised.


Facelookbovvered. With no disrespect it is quite clear that you do not really understand what is required as regards the Harrogate/Leeds line spur to the airport. Other than cutting through some farm fields heading towards a natural valley behind the airport and a bridge to support the described and backed new link road(with associated farm access) the disruption would be minimal. 1billion is ridiculously wild figure.

Whatever it costs should be divided over the last 30 years aswell as future years. The investment that that rail link would have brought to the region if built when the runway extension was completed would be immense. The business men that travel on trains over the pennines to use AF, LH, SN, SAS etc etc would not have been spent boosting the Manchester economy but would have boosted the Yorkshire economy. The families, literally millions of them every year from Yorkshire alone plus Hull Grimsby Middlesbrough all spending less to get to Leeds instead of Manchester-take that money off the cost too. All those extra train seats over the pennines that did not really need to be used if only a short spur of railway had been built.
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