Comparing the UK to the US is apples and oranges. There’s never been an hours requirement to enter the airlines in the UK and as such when you’re giving 200 hour cadets jet experience then there’s never going to be a shortage of jet qualified pilots to go to the large carriers. The difference is that unions over there actually get the job done and companies are interested in holding onto skilled workers.

The Emirati locals might get preferential treatment when it comes to redundancies etc. Don’t think that the same wouldn’t happen in Virgin. Foreign hires are more expensive to the company because of the manpower required to get the company in a position to be able to sponsor them. Any sign of downturn and I’m sure it will be sorry we no longer can sponsor your visa, out you go.

Virgin will pay the successful applicants the same rate as UK pilots, so I don’t know where you think this new cheap labour pay scale is coming from. It’s a collective agreement. As I say it’s down to BALPA to actually negotiate a salary and QOL that retains their crews. They should be starting with at least 15% since the airline moved from 750 hour contracts to 900. Still cheaper than their Delta counterparts who got an effective 18% this year.

You still don’t get it do you.

Supply vs Demand. If Virgin don’t think they have a slightest hint of a recruitment and retention issue then they won’t give a pay rise, why would they. They have less of an issue if they have access to a much larger labour market, many of whom would be delighted to work for barely half of what a virgin pilot makes when compared to their home countries.

UK pilots can’t work in the EU anymore, the playing fields are tipped against UK pilots if EU pilots can work in the uk.

I would say the necessity of having a UK license is a big barrier for most EU Nationals/EASA licensed pilots.

I guess few experienced pilots would be willing to go through all the hassle of doing 13 theory exams (again) + medical + LST in simulator + bureaucracy + costs in order to have a UK license and apply for Virgin.

https://www.caa.co.uk/commercial-ind...-january-2023/


Route 6 for a current EASA holder - no need to do theory again, so with a valid TR not too much to do to get a uk licence.

Considering you mention the UAE would you support a special allowance for British pilots and a different pension scheme as well as other benefits not available to pilots coming on a work visa? Unless it’s changed since I was there that is what they get to keep them happy. Opening up work visas is to the detriment of British pilots and should be challenged by BALPA.

Can't really march out that sob story when it's what the UK pop voted for. If you think about it logically the reason they're advertising for non-UK only on the Boeing is that I imagine many Boeing rated bods came from FR, who are all on EASA licences and, since Brexit, a large portion on EU passports. This recruitment opens the door to a large pool of rated pilots who up until a few years ago would've had the right to apply anyway. It's only EU nationals, it's not like the supply line has grown outside of the realm that it was before COVID. The UK CAA also made it considerably easier for pilots to make the conversion between EASA than they did on the continent. Looking forward to your picket at Aviation House regarding that one.

You can't improve T&Cs without having enough bodies to cover the schedule in the way that you want (more heavy crewed trips, more days off etc). It's a negotiation, you have to give to get. It's BALPA who dropped the ball letting this happen in the first place.

Isn't the irony in this that if the company hired non-UK citizens on a different pension scheme, with no private healthcare etc, that you'd be up in arms about how the T&Cs were diminishing? I take on board that the UAE was not the perfect example, what with govt owned and run airline, no union etc.

...to be brutally honest, I don't think the Virgin management have opened this avenue up for EU pilots in order to improve terms and conditions at Virgin in the future! Lets not politik this situation when there is no need!

The fact is, in my very humble opinion, that VAA is very definately not the employer of choice that it once was. It can't attract UK pilots because of this, and is so forced to look elsewhere. It really is as simple as that.

I feel fairly qualified to state the above as a long serving ex-VAA Captain who was unceremoniously made redundant out of seniority during their "shake up" of terms and conditions to retrograde permanent new ones that are quoted above in this thread. There are a significant number of us (most with decades of service dutifully done to get that LH command at the "best gig in UK") that are taking them to court for all sorts of unsavoury discriminative reasons. The six week hearing starts in February.

Even their "star" instagram sensation TRE is off to the High Court shortly to allegedly face accusations of some pretty nasty career-ending defamations made to bosses of colleagues.

They made their bed with a very oportunistic response to Covid that was also very much an outlier compared to other airlines at the time.

....it is certainly worth thinking if you want to lie in that particular bed?

As for working out your time to command etc - well, just factor in that it counts for NOTHING at Virgin when the axe falls. Our stories are true testament to that.

how come you didn’t return to VAA? Surely everyone got their jobs back?

No they didn't! They keep that pretty quiet. Probably on account of a good number of them taking them to court over the issue.

...others elected not to return. That should tell you something too!

And some who stayed on during the covid debacle have elected to leave since the creation of Virgin 2.0, which also speaks volumes....

I’m very very sorry to learn that.

Sounds like the management are as despicable as BA ! Maybe more so . Didnt think that was possible

It has certainly been a very rough three years for some of us! But it all comes out in February when the six week hearing commences. Some of it even beforehand this year in the High Court.

I believe there are hundreds of similar claims ongoing concurrently for cabin crew too.

....they don't put that in the adverts.

Shades of the Forty-Niners ...
 

...
I was told a while back that VAA management managed to arrange for a number of 'undesirable' or trouble-maker pilots who they'd previously made redundant, to fail their re-hiring interviews. Shades of the CX Forty-Niners.

I'll ask our tame Virgin mate for clarification tonight, (if he's in the pub.)
Good luck with the court cases - keep us posted please ?

LFH

This.

Add trade union reps to that list, although it probably falls into the "undesireable" category.

Balpa reps screwing over fellow pilots - surely not! :eek:

On another topic,

Has anyone been through the cut-e tests at Zenon lately. Would appreciate some info, thank you.

Cheers

undesirables and trouble-makers
 

I think you may have misunderstood -

I think Nat meant - Trade Union Reps were top of management's wish-list of undesirables and trouble-makers who were not wanted back - so they had to 'fail' their re-hiring interviews. If true - thats a black-list offence under labour relations law.

There's probably a long queue of Subject Access Requests as a result - https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/yo...-of-your-data/ - while the shredding department works overtime.

Our Virgin mate wasn't in the pub last night - seems he got clobbered for an extra trip.

LFH

Hold a current UK Class One Medical and United Kingdom or European Union Flight Crew License (ATPL) issued by the UK CAA at the date of joining
That's from Virgin webpage

It would sadly appear from the evidence gathered so far, that LFH is absolutely correct. Said shredding department not quite quick enough.

...don't forget it also says that they will sponsor a four year residence visa. One has to ask why "the best gig in the UK" would need to do this, no? Particulary if there are vastly qualified and experienced pilots in the UK still available.....some even with decades of prior service at the actual carrier?!?!?

Only need to read the front pages of UK newspapers to discover why Virgin are recruiting. Balpa attempting to negotiate layovers etc. Not the best gig in UK by a long way.

It ceased being the best gig in the UK overnight, when the management decided to use the Covid excuse to unilaterally tear up our contracts, and scrap all of our hard fought for protections. And if you didn't sign the new, unilaterally imposed contract, then out the door you go. Something that I belive BA tried, but got pilloried in the press for, and subsequently dropped...

The seniority concept suffered the same fate. Sacking 50% of the pilots, out of seniority, just based on thier type rating at the time. Seniority now only applies when it works in thier favour. Not only will you spend years waiting your turn for promotion, you will also spend your life looking over your shoulder wondering if you've made the right fleet choice come the next inevitable downturn and subsequent redundancy rounds.
​​
What they didn't (and still don't) realise is that those protections were the only thing making VS attractive to pilots.

There are many, many other things that happened that have now rendered VS the least attractive gig in the UK, by a considerable margin. A lot of which will, no doubt, be revealed during the court cases scheduled for next year...

​​​

Don’t think any of the Nigels who were sacked then given a £14k pay decrease, endlessly told there were no slots at LHR for them whilst the company recruited externals into the positions would necessarily agree with you there. Although the corruption and nepotism in the BA CC is a different story entirely.

Feel free to post on my thread
https://www.pprune.org/interviews-jo...light=nepotism

Visa sponsorship is useless if I don't have an ATPL issued by the UK CAA, that's what they ask

You are missing the point, with respect.

When did you last see a European "legacy" carrier, marketed to be an employer of choice, advertising visa sponsorships to attract applicants(UK licence holders or not)? Take a look at the news in the UK today and read between the lines.

what court case ? What’s it all about ?

Big Bad ....
 

I refer you to Nat Zulu's learned post #330 above - extract below ....

I expect we will have to wait until much nearer the dates before we learn more.

LFH

Has anyone had the Sim recently, if so would they be willing to private message me.

thank you.

Also axed -
 

I was also Culled - I was invited back to interview but due to me being a " problem child " guess what I haven't flown since

as I mentioned I was a know trouble maker - PPU etc and when I got taken out of the pool and had an interview for my old job guess what I didn't get an offer ... very odd but I'm happy now in the sand pit

Virgin Recruitment process
 

Hei, I have the Zenon phone interview next week for Virgin. Anyone has gone through the recruitment process? Would you please contact me? Thank you in advance.

If anyone has done the sim recently could they drop me a DM.
Thank you!

If anyone has done the final interview at VA, could they drop me a DM.
Cheers

I'm sure at interview VS staff will tell candidates its a competition so why give you the answers?

Hello everyone,

Does anybody have the latest salary and/or earning figures for VA SFOs in 2023? Also, I hear that the command line is very long there >5years. Can anyone with the inside knowledge share what procedures the company has for SFOs upgrade?

Cheers,

Hi all,

​​​​​​having gone through the thread, the last 2 phases sim/final interview not much to go on unfortunately. Would anyone mind to share some feedback who've done it recently and passed? Pm if needed.

Thanks in advance. Goodluck to all going through to the final stages. Rgds M_1
​

Salary is as quoted earlier in the thread. The current pay deal runs out at the end of the year so the CC should start negotiating the next one soon. Once they’ve dealt with the indicative ballot of fatigue with the company of course.

Current SFOs are having their interview at the 8 year mark with a course sometime next year, however the norm is 10-14 years and not what people are being told by Zenon.

Current upgrade process is a Sim and an interview once signed off as capable by the command review board.