Thanks for the insight. I guess, it all comes down to the numbers' evaluation on earning vs lifestyle which is something very personal.

Yeah, that kind of a line is very dreary to see, especially when you have many places that offer fast track command upgrade or the alike and you know you're gonna earn much less than you could elsewhere, if you stick to SFO at VA for years to come. But what's is it that determines your years before you're on the list for a command. is it the seniority among SFOs only or all RHS holders including Juniors and FOs?

Safe landings,

Command eligibility is determined on hours (can't remember the exact number but not that high without reading the books) and global seniority. When your number comes up your file goes before the CRB for them to review, they look at all aspects of your time in Virgin, conduct sims etc. If it's passed you get an offer of an Interview/ Sim. Once you pass that you're put into the command holding pool and will be assigned a course when they are available.

Thank you again, mate. It's always good to have first hand info. Much appreciated.

Absolutely. There is a fair number with offers and applications in elsewhere owing to the ridiculous rosters amongst other things.

how bad are the rosters? And what are the ‘other things’?

VS were doing more second officer interviews again last few weeks. Apparently previous offers made and candidates decided against joining nearer the time of courses for better positions elsewhere as First Officers.

Are they still not giving them the full type rating on the license and not doing the ZFTT sim, until they have done 2 years?

Not exactly a good deal, if another pandemic occurs for those not unrestricted and unable to fly elsewhere the type Virgin offer them.

Better off going to a short haul airline than VS in the U.K, like Easy or Jet 2.

Not sure what your definition of a good deal is, but a unemployed ex-Flybe pilot in their early-mid twenties with 300hrs total time and a next to useless type rating earning £63k to be cruise relief pilot for 2 years with the prospect of long haul command in their early-mid 30s sounds alright to me.

If the company has survived one of its many moments of closing its doors which happen with regular monotony, or you’re not laid off due to being on the wrong fleet of which you have no choice in…..

2001 9/11

2008 financial downturn

2020 covid

Did I miss any? Regular-ish I suppose. Though Flybe, Monarch, XL, Thomas Cook, bmi all disappeared *completely’ in the same timeframe. I know where I’d rather have been.

SOs get a full type rating but unsure about ZFTT. Moving to a new company would require OCC and TRI for first 4 landings anyway, if ZFTT, so not sure why the TR wouldn’t be portable. Seems to allow pilots to fly LH that otherwise wouldn’t be looked at due low hours/previous types underweight.

VS vs Jet2/EZY? Apples & oranges - no-one joins a LH airline because they want to do 20 sectors a week to Spain and back.
I’ve done both - Jetlag sucks but more days off at home and better roster stability at VS, than ever at previous SH lot. The fact that many are still unhappy with lifestyle is providing pressure for things to get closer to pre-covid Ts&Cs. It won’t be overnight but it is improving.

And if anyone thinks seniority would be respected at *any* airline if the s*** really hit the fan, they are sorely deluded. Its a method for fighting over leave, command etc. What’s the *written* redundancy policy at EZY??? 😝

My definition of a good deal is working for a company that give a full type rating and allow you to log hours, which support getting a job. Rather than restricting someone to a cruise pilot without ZFT. If Virgin were to close or lay staff off, like Flybe. It would be quite difficult within that 2 year period to fly a 787 or A350 in another airline without getting ZFT qualified and having 500 hours on the type logged that are not cruise relief.

Therefore other companies who have been recruiting, including a number that did advertise for non rated Airbus / Boeing, look a much better long term prospect. The command in Virgin use to be a long time, now perhaps 7 years for those already SFO's in Virgin who spent the first two years logging hours that work towards command. This could quickly change in the future.

When taking into account the leasing debts, shareholder loans etc. Virgin has around 3.1 billion of financial debts which are higher than its assets. Virgin last made a pre tax profit around 2016. Just to pay back shareholder loans, they will need to generate a consistent profit for a period 10 - 15 years. So now they are trying to keep cash in the business, have a general hiring freeze with exceptions of crew as they need to try and grow new routes to generate revenues to service their debt reduction.

Virgin have had a past history of not always delivering upon promises and quickly removing pilots from the business during difficult times. As mentioned here in this forum.

I guess it depends how desperate you are for LH ? You still have age on your side so could go to Virgin and if they throw you out in a few years then who cares. BUT as another poster has mentioned having a 350/330/787 type rating isn’t actually that good for job prospects compared to say a 737/320 especially if you are cruise relief !
BA could be a better option at your age ? Or if you want the cash jet2 ?

can anybody provide more info about aptitude tests and simulator/technical assessments?

Hi, any info on current conditions, mood and rosters post pay increase?

Thanks,

They have raised the pay as they are worried about new junior pilots leaving within the first few years...... That should speak volumes to anyone considering the mood within VAA.

Any info on what this rise in pay actually is?

No no idea sorry.

10-15% depending on rank. As with everything, the reason for it is more convoluted and nuanced than what is posted on prune, but largely cadets have been taken advantage of for a long time and FO scales aren’t keeping up with competition, so the speed tape has been applied.

Mood? All ranks in receipt of pay rise I imagine are appreciative but still pretty keen to see more change to lifestyle. Most SFO/CP are still in mourning from their 750 hour contracts and there is an awful lot of pressure on BALPA to secure a meaningful and significant change to pay/lifestyle in the negotiations that have started. Hopefully the pilots leaving for BA/EK etc shows the SLT it’s not the time to faff around.

That being said people are largely a pleasure to fly with and you will likely always find a few mates to have a beer with downroute

Anyone know how this payscale compares to European Air Cargo at Bournemouth?? Theres nothing on their website.

The SO chaps I met doing their 787 TR a few months ago were told at interview they would be cruise relief pilots for 18-24 months. Once they actually started they said they were told in reality it’ll be more like 4-6 months before they’re FO’s

What's the standard of hotels like down route? They taken a hit as well with the cost cutting?

They're generally very good. Most are either city centre or resort (Carribean/Indian Ocean). The New York hotel can be a bit of a lottery but the location is excellent for Manhattan.

Thanks Planedrive, in regards to TR, I presume that is a bond over 3-5 years?

Indeed. Good deal if you keep that command, maybe!

I'm reliably informed that the ex VACC Chairman, who was at the helm of pilot representation during the contentious 2020 redundancy consultations (and wholesale permanent change to all terms and conditions) has recently been appointed in a management role as Head of Flight Crew at the airline.

Captains made redundant. Seniority binned (and yes - it DID exist, despite new joiners alluding otherwise in posts above, and there was an industrial agreement that was extant covering it!). Scheduling agreements binned permanently. All whilst consulting with a BALPA union Chairman - who now gets a management position. He is now your boss. Good luck with any pay and lifestyle negotiations there!

The court cases of the "unmentionable" forgotten victims of the above debacle, that paved the way for your command in your thirties, have not gone away, by the way. It will all out eventually.

Just saying.

Hi All,

Quick question here, does anyone know if the flight pay at Virgin is taxed? Just hearing different things from different people.

Thanks in advance

Flight pay ( which was a fixed amount) was integrated into salary post COVID and is thus taxed at your marginal tax rate.

You do receive allowances down route for purchasing food etc. This is paid at the prevailing HMRC world wide rates which are tax free. Certain destinations receive a top up/ gap payment which is taxed at your marginal rate

Ah right, thanks for clarifying it for me

Apologies if this has been covered, been scanning the tread and haven’t seen it.
I understand flight pay is rolled up in basic now, how much are the trip payments and are there any other payments to take into account when working out final income?
Many thanks.

Has there been any more news on potential payrises?

raising the pay appears to have not worked. During December and January , many resigned.

Where are most leaving for?

I heard, although not confirmed of course, that VS BALPA asked for a 40% payrise (for justifiable reason) and VS came back with an offer of 3%. Anyone else heard this?

Lots to BA apparently.

Virgin are that desperate they are opening visa sponsorships for Eu nationals to work for the airline.

the way they treated people during Covid I’m not surprised

See this....

Can you trust your Training Captains? The Captain Lawson case.

There are many court cases lodged by flight crew still pending. Is it all "just because of Covid"?

On the upside for anyone looking for that "dream long-haul gig" - there is an advert out today further dropping DEP entry requirements to type rating only with no recency requirements for anyone who has been unable to fly in the 4 years post-Covid.

.....I guess you just ought to ask : why?! The terminated flight crew with unfair dismissal claims certainly are.

FYI, this is not something new. They had it in place since at least 2021.

Were the dismissed just not allowed to rejoin like the others? What were the requirements?

Apart from some who had suffered performance issues pre-covid, there were also a few characters who thought it was the right thing to do to tell their former employer in no uncertain terms what they thought of them, in public, in return interviews, and/or across social media, but who still then expected to be offered their jobs back. Whether or not anyone else agreed with them, most thought it more prudent not to burn bridges. Apart from these handful of cases, Virgin did follow through on their promise to reemploy everyone else.

Gosh. On my rare trips into the office I always take a stick to bite on along with worry beads. Helped my career prospects well

Simply not true. Do you know how many unfair dismissal claims are currently being defended by the airline? Were you in those "interviews"? If so, then with respect you prob should not be casting aspersions here. If not, then you prob should not be casting aspersions here!

Anyone with any historic and documented performance or discipline "issues" were not even offered a place in the hold pool. Everyone in the pool was apparently pre-judged as being a suitable candidate, else you were not there in the first place. Many had decades of exemplary service and spotless training records. However, all were apparently still subject to a "robust" interview to get their old jobs back. Did any other airline implement a strict and scored interview process for employess to get their old jobs back?

Be careful of repeating narratives without facts. Are you seriously suggesting hundreds of crew, deemed suitable already to be in a hold pool, all walked into an interview and told their prospective employer exactly what they thought of them? Seriously? Why would these hundreds of crew bother to do that?!

I note from your earlier responses in this thread that you say :

Are you aware of the "written" redundancy agreement that Virgin had and its pilots paid for via pay concessions that had been extant for a very long time? That goes some way to explain the shock and upset suffered by pilots that were axed with decades of service. That shock and upset, I would respectfully argue, is not a "crime" to be punished, but rather a human reaction to be understood with compassion.

What actually transpired was that some interviews were more "robust" than others. The real reasons why that was the case are at the heart of the court claims.

Until you see the evidence, then, your opinion is unfortunately just that. You are, of course, entitled to it, but unfortunately not your own facts. Please try and understand that there are individuals in severe distress due to these events, and such repetition of unsubstantiated naratives only serves to make their situations worse.