|
I used to layover and socialise with the Virgin crew quite regularly down route, and some of the goings on would make my hair stand on end! So nothing would surprise me. A couple of the captains said it was sometimes a full time job just keeping the rest of the crew out of trouble.
Besides, with the US on a flat out mission to become a Trumpian hermit fiefdom, Virgin might be a very precarious place to be |
Originally Posted by de fumo in flammam
(Post 11860515)
I used to layover and socialise with the Virgin crew quite regularly down route, and some of the goings on would make my hair stand on end! So nothing would surprise me. A couple of the captains said it was sometimes a full time job just keeping the rest of the crew out of trouble.
Besides, with the US on a flat out mission to become a Trumpian hermit fiefdom, Virgin might be a very precarious place to be But I do question why would management cover up -name removed- sexual harassment? I can only think given it was a financial decision to weigh the cost of any potentially damages against cost of losing the quite senior people involved. If it’s not that then I can only assume it was covered up out of malice towards her, as there is no other logical reason. As for the second part of your statement, yes it’s a big worry. I understand loads are starting to drop on core USA routes as people are questioning if they need to travel. And I don’t think any of the cheerleaders in the thread can deny that Virgin are very quick to lower the head count when the economy takes a hit. Covid, 2008-9 financial crash, 2001…… every time they booted people. So that alone should be giving anyone pause for thought about jumping out of what ever company you are in currently to join a company at the bottom of its seniority list just as the world looks to be entering a global financial crisis caused by Trump. My advice sit tight where ever you are and wait until the dust settles. It’s going to be a wild ride for the next few years. edited to remove the name of the person who suffered the sexual harassment as I didn’t have her permission to use her name. |
Bond?
What’s the bond situation at Virgin?
|
Hi NewMan123,
The bond is £30k over 3yrs and the clock starts at completion of LST. This reduces to £20k from Yr 1 to Yr 2, then £10k from Yr 2 to Yr 3. Hope this helps 5U |
Pay and benefits.
Can someone tell me post tax how much a SFO can expect ? Based on standard contribution of pension 6%.. and if there's overtime how is it calculated and how much difference in monthly pay ( post tax ) comes in if I could do 1-2 additional flight, just a rough figure would be enough..
How are virgin benefits on voyages and gyms ? How much discount can one expect ? Thanks !! |
What’s the best fleet to be on at Virgin, Airbus or Boeing?
Is Virgin renewing the 787 fleet or are they going all Airbus with the engine issue and higher off wing time. Common Airbus fleet might make sense for lower maintenance, crew training and crew deployment flexibility. |
Originally Posted by turbine100
(Post 11874483)
What’s the best fleet to be on at Virgin, Airbus or Boeing]
Common Airbus fleet might make sense for lower maintenance, crew training and crew deployment flexibility. |
Originally Posted by kmw63
(Post 11857978)
Joined post-Covid. Don't recognise much of what's been said but will give a little story to explain what I think is going on. Flying with quite young, brand new joiner FO who's telling me how he almost failed his initial LST.
"They can't expect me to read the whole of the FCOM. It's far too long and I've got a life, you know?" Unfortunately I think management have had to cast the net a little too wide to get warm bums on flight deck seats (I mean, they recruited me after all). Whilst I'm no fan of management here, I think there are almost certainly a few characters amongst the recent recruitment who need to have a bit of a think about their behaviours, both professionally and downroute. There are plenty of stories going round about why a few particular characters have been let go, at least one of which I could confirm personally. Also, how often can one pickup overtime? are there plenty of options every month for the Airbus? |
Originally Posted by Badboy21
(Post 11893071)
HI, could you tell me what is the in-hand salary post tax approximately for an SFO, with and without overtime?
Also, how often can one pickup overtime? are there plenty of options every month for the Airbus? Extra trips are on offer regularly but unless you have unwanted leave, or additional days off rostered, you won't always be in a position to take them up. Don't plan on overtime, see it as a bonus if it works out. FWIW typically I choose/manage to pick up maybe 3-4 extra trips over the course of a year. |
No overtime on the 787 at the moment and not enough coverage on the Airbus. Airbus work patterns are a problem and life style for route network better on the 787.
Issues still with the company giving part time and for those that are trainers wanting part time. For a period of time they did not bond and last 18 months added bonding to the contracts as people were coming for a few months and then leaving with the rating. Flight deck still leaving and going to BA, EK, Jet 2. Few to Wizz who offered command upgrades. |
Originally Posted by pipercub10
(Post 11911995)
No overtime on the 787 at the moment and not enough coverage on the Airbus. Airbus work patterns are a problem and life style for route network better on the 787.
Issues still with the company giving part time and for those that are trainers wanting part time. For a period of time they did not bond and last 18 months added bonding to the contracts as people were coming for a few months and then leaving with the rating. Flight deck still leaving and going to BA, EK, Jet 2. Few to Wizz who offered command upgrades. And why are they leaving elsewhere even with the new pay deal which actually beats BA ? |
Not enough pilots !!!!
Better than BA ??? |
Originally Posted by islandhopper
(Post 11914407)
Not enough pilots !!!!
Better than BA ??? Next, virgin pays layover allowances into a card, vs BA pays it with salary. That brings another 500£ monthly i believe for Virgin. I read in an earlier post that with all allowances year 1 pay for BA FO with overtime can be around 110k, but this is around 120-125k for virgin SFO with 3-4 overtime trips I believe ( with layover allowance paid separately into card). Correct me if I'm wrong ? |
Originally Posted by Badboy21
(Post 11914413)
I compared the SFO (for someone with 3000+ hrs) pay vs FO at BA ( no Direct SFO option). Virgin was more by atleast 10k £.
Next, virgin pays layover allowances into a card, vs BA pays it with salary. That brings another 500£ monthly i believe for Virgin. I read in an earlier post that with all allowances year 1 pay for BA FO with overtime can be around 110k, but this is around 120-125k for virgin SFO with 3-4 overtime trips I believe ( with layover allowance paid separately into card). Correct me if I'm wrong ? Virgin Yr 1 SFO: £90,775 + flying pay (£9,985) = £100,760. Yes, you get HMRC rates on a corporate card, it’s roughly $150 USD for a one night USA. Can be as low as $40 if in “cheap” destinations. You also get a courtesy £85 fully taxed top up for each trip paid in arrears. It’s around £5,500 after tax. BA Yr 1 FO: £74,930 + £35,000 (average flying pay and allowances A350) = £109,930. A decent chunk of the allowances is tax free. Ballpark they are roughly the same take home. As you say you don’t join BA as an SFO, which means that people can earn that when they join with 1,500 hrs, rather than 3,000 as at Virgin. To compare the Virgin FO Yr 1 with the BA Yr 1 shows the contrast much better, as you’re then comparing apples with apples. However, the real benefits of BA are the fact that the trigger for three pilots is significantly lower than at Virgin. Not only that, it is rostered if you’re going to be relief, so you can plan your rest the moment the roster comes out, rather than deciding it in the briefing room. The new rule coming into effect in October means that almost every long haul trip will have a minimum three days off after. The busses to the crew car park are much more frequent and reliable than the PEX or long stay busses so you don’t have to get to the airport way before report time. You usually get your roster about five days before Virgin as well. These are all little things but they have a marked improvement on quality of life. Not to mention the variety of routes, fleet bidding and job stability. If you want to be based in the UK, it’s a no brainer. |
Great read, thanks for the insights from everyone. So is it safe to assume many are still leaving the company for BA or EK?
I've heard they are trialing a commuting contract with back to back rostered days. Anyone have any insight on that and how many days off does one get after? And a quick question regarding upgrade time. What is it looking like realistically/ currently if joining with 4000 airbus hours? |
Originally Posted by summerdreams2025
(Post 11943163)
Great read, thanks for the insights from everyone. So is it safe to assume many are still leaving the company for BA or EK?
Remember the 3 days off at BA is a trial, and a cynic would say it’s to get people in the door then the trial will conveniently end. I hope it does stay, because I think VS would have no choice but to follow suit. For me waiting 20 years for a LH command at BA is nuts, all to start as the most junior person in that seat again. I like VS, it’s nice working with familiar faces. Rotating seniority works nicely. Very relaxed operation. Everyone is someone you could happily share a beer with. I don’t think much of management at all. Can’t argue stability, career options, variety at BA. But I don’t think the disparity between the 2 airlines as career options are as far apart as people make it out to be on here. My roster is better than my friends at BA with equal seniority, albeit I’m sure they’ll win that race in the long run after 20+ years service. BA is definitely a great choice. All I’m saying is, don’t write off VS based on what people on pprune say. Some people do have genuine reasons to dislike VS, they treated people very unfairly during Covid. There are good things here that BA don’t have, BA is not a golden ticket. I turned them down and happy I did. There are also a couple of guys who left VS to go to BA and came straight back to us within 6 months. Just take this thread with a pinch of salt.
Originally Posted by summerdreams2025
(Post 11943163)
And a quick question regarding upgrade time. What is it looking like realistically/ currently if joining with 4000 airbus hours? |
Originally Posted by recall_checked
(Post 11943291)
No, that’s not true. A couple a month out of 1000 pilots leave, so not many. VS have dismissed others over the last 12 months for behaviour or training issues. I’m reading posts here stating people who have left ‘recently’. Some of these guys left over a year ago, before the new pay deal yet it’s still being mentioned in new posts that they are just leaving now.
Remember the 3 days off at BA is a trial, and a cynic would say it’s to get people in the door then the trial will conveniently end. I hope it does stay, because I think VS would have no choice but to follow suit. For me waiting 20 years for a LH command at BA is nuts, all to start as the most junior person in that seat again. I like VS, it’s nice working with familiar faces. Rotating seniority works nicely. Very relaxed operation. Everyone is someone you could happily share a beer with. I don’t think much of management at all. Can’t argue stability, career options, variety at BA. But I don’t think the disparity between the 2 airlines as career options are as far apart as people make it out to be on here. My roster is better than my friends at BA with equal seniority, albeit I’m sure they’ll win that race in the long run after 20+ years service. BA is definitely a great choice. All I’m saying is, don’t write off VS based on what people on pprune say. Some people do have genuine reasons to dislike VS, they treated people very unfairly during Covid. There are good things here that BA don’t have, BA is not a golden ticket. I turned them down and happy I did. There are also a couple of guys who left VS to go to BA and came straight back to us within 6 months. Just take this thread with a pinch of salt. Right now, some guys started their A330 command course before 8 years service. Maybe looking at 10 if you join now. Thanks for the info. It all makes sense. Are there more people retiring then as I can imagine commands would mostly come about with retirements. |
Recall’s post is spot on for the most part. Only thing I don’t agree with is the command time. There are going to be loads of young skippers taking a command in the coming months/years, so I think if you’d join now command time will be at least 14-15 years. That’s mostly because the company has no plans to expand further.
|
Originally Posted by Posterviolet
(Post 11943924)
Recall’s post is spot on for the most part. Only thing I don’t agree with is the command time. There are going to be loads of young skippers taking a command in the coming months/years, so I think if you’d join now command time will be at least 14-15 years. That’s mostly because the company has no plans to expand further.
|
Originally Posted by zero/zero
(Post 11943927)
Completely. For the guys that timed it just right, it's looking like 7-8 years and maybe even less. But they've been recruiting non stop for a while, so guys joining now should be ready to wait for 14-15. In which case, BA is probably a better bet for a lot of people
You just never know. |
Command isn't guaranteed, remember. Everyone talking about time to command, but 'time to command opportunity', is probably a better way of looking at it. Plenty of career FO's at Virgin . . . some don't even realise that.
|
14/15 years
Originally Posted by Googlebug
(Post 11944023)
7 or 8 years ago people would have been telling guys it was a 12-15 year wait.
You just never know. |
Virgin currently have a large number of pilots in the BA holding pool waiting start dates, especially those from the Airbus fleet who have been flogged to death with the difficult rosters.
People are still leaving every month to other Airlines in the U.K and abroad. The company cannot keep the younger pilots and sickness / fatigue is higher with some trainers stepping down for life style. The part time contracts promised have not been fulfilled and attempts are being made to address these now. Some retirements are now being taken sooner as well. The overall rating and leadership of the CEO and management team is very poor, your find this as well when reading GlassDoor https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Overview...4307.11,26.htm |
BA Hold Pool Swimmers
Heard from a bloke in the pub etc...................
BA have just given course dates to 6 more from airbus fleet for their A350. |
Most new guys I talk to are either in the BA hold pool or in the process of applying.
|
The attraction of VS for a a lot of people was always lifestyle... 750hr contract, good trips, time at home and constructive relationship with management etc etc.
None of that really exists any more, so if you're in your 20s or 30s I personally think you'd be bonkers to choose VS over BA. The only thing that's really good now is that it's still a bunch of good people when the doors are closed, and we don't have to wear hats. |
Nobody at BA bats an eye if you don’t bring your hat.
|
Originally Posted by rotorwings
(Post 11860012)
While I don’t wish to diminish anyone’s personal experience-particularly when it involves something as serious as harassment-it’s important to approach claims like these with a degree of balance and factual scrutiny. Virgin Atlantic is a relatively small airline in terms of pilot community, and word travels fast. If this kind of systemic issue were as widespread as suggested, I believe more of us would be aware of it. As someone actively flying for the airline, I’ve neither witnessed nor heard of anything that supports the notion that this kind of behaviour is common or tolerated.
To describe a “number”of Virgin pilots as being involved in harassment, based on one individual’s serious (but singular) allegation, feels misleading. That there may be isolated incidents-yes, as with any airline or professional environment-but it’s reductive to characterise an entire group of pilots, or the company culture as a whole, on that basis. Every airline has its share of difficult personalities; this is not unique to Virgin, nor does it imply a cultural failing. From my own perspective, Virgin’s flight crew management and training department set high standards of professionalism and behaviour. In my experience, they do not hesitate to act when those standards are breached. If the internal investigation referenced in the original statement did indeed find that harassment occurred, I would be surprised if it was genuinely “covered up” without further action or consequences-particularly in the current climate, where corporate accountability is under immense scrutiny. Allegations of this nature deserve to be taken seriously and investigated thoroughly-but they must also be presented responsibly. Generalising from a single legal dispute risks painting an inaccurate picture of a company that, in my time here, has demonstrated a clear commitment to professionalism, respect, and accountability. I agree wholeheartedly that behaviour of this nature must be stamped out and anyone guilty of harassment must be held to account; but I find it rather hard to believe that these days in an organisation as accepting and diverse as VA, that a number of male would harass a single individual. there must be more to this than meets the eye. |
Is there any update regarding possibly also making 3 days off after trips on the 350 a thing? I know BA are trialling it and trying to tempt virgin guys by paying off their bonds and heading to BA. I was told that Virgin might have to match that sort of rostering in order to keep people or bring people on perhaps. Is there any truth to that? And would the compressed roster also come to fruition?
|
Originally Posted by 3Greens
(Post 11946855)
so one female FO was sexually harassed by a number of presumably male pilots? Really?
I agree wholeheartedly that behaviour of this nature must be stamped out and anyone guilty of harassment must be held to account; but I find it rather hard to believe that these days in an organisation as accepting and diverse as VA, that a number of male would harass a single individual. there must be more to this than meets the eye. Why can’t we guys just believe a woman when she calls out this kind of behaviour? Stop making excuses for the behaviour of people who should know better. They should have more important things on their minds at work than a colleagues genitalia. |
Originally Posted by Ohfeck
(Post 11979040)
Why can’t we guys just believe a woman when she calls out this kind of behaviour?
If the accused did it they deserve the book thrown at them, but everyone has a right to prove their innocence when accused of something. It’s ludicrous to suggest that someone can make an accusation and ‘just be believed’ because of who or what they are and what the accusation consists of. Who knows, it could be you next. |
I think Ohfeck meant believe in the sense of "believe such kind of harassment can exist" not believe in the sense of whether or not that individual is telling the truth.
|
Originally Posted by Dheluu
(Post 11979412)
I think Ohfeck meant believe in the sense of "believe such kind of harassment can exist" not believe in the sense of whether or not that individual is telling the truth.
I personally do know a woman from VAA who received what she could describe due to legal restrictions as a “a substantial confidential settlement.” Companies don’t pay that if there has been no wrongdoing. And she’s not the only one? Only recently the company settled out of court a claim made by several pilots. Maybe if VAA behaved and didn’t have to keep paying millions in legal costs at regular intervals they might actually make a sustainable profit? |
Originally Posted by Ohfeck
(Post 11979418)
Exactly that. The first step to fixing a problem is acknowledging the problem exists. Reactions like the one from DuctOvht allow the problem to get worse not better.
I personally do know a woman from VAA who received what she could describe due to legal restrictions as a “a substantial confidential settlement.” Companies don’t pay that if there has been no wrongdoing. And she’s not the only one? Only recently the company settled out of court a claim made by several pilots. Maybe if VAA behaved and didn’t have to keep paying millions in legal costs at regular intervals they might actually make a sustainable profit? It’s 2025, there’s not a single right thinking person out there that doesn’t believe a problem can, and does, exist in some quarters and there are also too many men out there who don’t seem to have a grasp of how to treat others. Additionally, if Virgin has an institutional issue here then it is valid they’re called out on it. However, that doesn’t mean that an accusation from one person to another automatically confers guilt I’m afraid, no matter how much you might want it to. Our whole legal system is predicated on the notion that someone is innocent until proven guilty, although that centuries old precedent is under threat like never before. I have no skin in this particular game, but that sort of nonsense thinking (that someone, anyone, making an accusation of any sort be just ‘believed’) can’t go unchallenged. Anyway, this is wildly off thread so I’ll leave it at that. |
Way to miss the point!
Originally Posted by DuctOvht
(Post 11979444)
Believing in due process, justice and accountability is wrong? Pull the other one. I’m responding to what you wrote by the way, not what you might have tangentially inferred.
It’s 2025, there’s not a single right thinking person out there that doesn’t believe a problem can, and does, exist in some quarters and there are also too many men out there who don’t seem to have a grasp of how to treat others. Additionally, if Virgin has an institutional issue here then it is valid they’re called out on it. However, that doesn’t mean that an accusation from one person to another automatically confers guilt I’m afraid, no matter how much you might want it to. Our whole legal system is predicated on the notion that someone is innocent until proven guilty, although that centuries old precedent is under threat like never before. I have no skin in this particular game, but that sort of nonsense thinking (that someone, anyone, making an accusation of any sort be just ‘believed’) can’t go unchallenged. Anyway, this is wildly off thread so I’ll leave it at that. I will say it again. The first step to addressing a problem is acknowledging there is a problem, and then investigating and dealing with the problem. Or do you think we shouldn’t? Should we just dismiss our female colleagues out of hand if they make a complaint, I for one wouldn’t. No we should listen to them, believe them and then investigate the facts fully and address the issues causing them to believe they are being harassed or worse. And you know what that’s exactly what we should do if it’s a male colleague making a claim against a female or any other combination. The simple facts are VAA have repeatedly payed out substantially at the last second sometimes before the case hearings even get started, That show there is a problem, how deep that goes is for others to establish but no one pays out like that if there isn’t a problem of some kind. End of the day bullying and harassment are one and the same, and just as disgusting. |
Anyone knows if virgin will reopen Boeing recruitment again, or if it would it be possible to apply for an airbus position as a Boeing rated pilot. Also would they reopen second officer positions?
|
Originally Posted by Alphachar
(Post 12017778)
Anyone knows if virgin will reopen Boeing recruitment again, or if it would it be possible to apply for an airbus position as a Boeing rated pilot. Also would they reopen second officer positions?
There is a reason recruitment is difficult especially on the Airbus. There is about to be a retention problem on that fleet to add to the daily grind. |
Originally Posted by 340neo
(Post 12018274)
I suspect they will consider anyone with a pulse right now. If you are applying for Airbus though ask around and get sight of some typical rosters.
There is a reason recruitment is difficult especially on the Airbus. There is about to be a retention problem on that fleet to add to the daily grind. |
Hi Folks,
I wanted to know if anyone has any info regarding the assessment itself. How does it look? Which Psychometrics System do they use? In the past they used for the sim assessment a 737 sim in Crawley, but seemingly now it is Airbus. Is Airbus also used for 787 guys? As right now I fly 747 and in VAA I would apply for 787 SFO. Looking forward to some info. Thanks. |
As others have stated, I would strongly advise from joining this airline on the Airbus fleet, major retention problems persist.
|
| All times are GMT. The time now is 09:40. |
Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.