so they’re not leaving then?

Off course you are 😂 😂😂

Yet in the other threads, you claim to have applied to RIA in Saudi and looked for Korean Air…so a member of LGBTQ+ community who talks like that and wants to work in countries where homosexuality is forbidden or frowned upon? 😂In my country we have a proverb that translates; “you can catch a liar faster than a cripple”.

Of course you are dear… no member of the LGBT community would say that, but at least you were honest in the second half of your sentence.

Look if you don’t like it then so be it but Virgin are advertising they are inclusive and making a big thing about it…. And you know what that’s fine, as a captain at VAA that didn’t bother me one bit. But if you’re going to advertise it you need to follow through and this is where Virgin drop the ball again.

As is all so common here it’s style over substance and they don’t back it up.

Are people still resigning to leave VA or has the out flow now finished?

did the union pay rises come through?

I don’t know about the first, still the same talk of leaving by many how many actually are leaving and have places like I have is another matter.

Pay review… still ongoing but company just announced a rise for ground staff and extra long service day off.

Maybe fleet specific, but that isn’t a generalisation that I recognise (or have even heard of). Lots of new skippers around, but on the whole they are a breath of fresh air and trying hard to do a good job after years of waiting for the seat. Yes I’m sure there will be a few bad eggs around but that will be the same in every airline and seniority level.

As far as the DEI stuff is concerned, we all have our opinion on it but unless it’s something you feel strongly about for whatever reason, it isn’t something that affects you on a daily basis.

Lots of things wrong with the company and management, but it’s still possible to turn up, do a professional job and have a nice time downroute with the crew.

Good luck in the new venture

This beautiful quote sums up every single airline pilot job out there. Happiness is a state of mind.

For sure, it’s most definitely not everyone and we know that, but there definitely been an upward trend I’ve noticed in the comments from my FO’s about some individuals. I always say if they think it’s a safety issue or a concern they have an obligation to report it if only be the confidential system, I can’t as I’m only hearing secondhand reports. Hopefully if it is a big problem it will be corrected and those concerned will be helped.

Thanks for the well wishes, I’m looking forward to the new opportunity and to slow down a little as I approach retirement. Last few years in a slightly different role from just line flying is I hope a nice way to bring my career to a close.

Perhaps the rostering has changed and those commuting into London. Find the new rosters in Virgin 2.0, not easily commutable perhaps. Which could be a reason to take a look around for other jobs.

Any tips for the psychometric testing? Yet to receive the email, but I’m looking for practice tests. Thanks.

Virgin still losing money, albeit less. Everyone else reported robust trading/profits. Last reported a profit in 2016.

Maybe Rylan can sort it out

Any ideas as to what the pay rise numbers are in the offer negotiated by VACC thats going to vote?

30% by Jan 26 and 20% this year, new scheduling protections, all sorts of policies redundancy etc but VS pilots have all said they will vote this down. Apparently it takes a new joiner start salary to £100k and top trainer TRE £270k.

It must be cheaper to retain your crew with substantial salaries, than paying out huge sums of Overtime, and buying back Leave. As is regularly happening now.

:ugh: That would be an extraordinary decision.

It isn't if you know the details of the offer. And it isn't about the money

Correct. It’s about kicking the company for what happened.
Some individuals are so bitter about the past they refuse to look forward.
Pity really as the new T&C’s look pretty good. Lots of protections and eye watering pay rise but some feel they’ve got to make a stance!

Hi, Is the new T and C advertised on pilot jobs network for virgin accurate for the new rumoured package? also how likely is the new deal to be accepted or rejected?

they are accurate. Although where they’ve said 2 local nights off after DXB/JFK etc they mean 3 local nights (2 days off).

difficult to say which way it’ll go.

I've heard a rumour that the new pay deal includes a clause that if you call in sick on two or more occasions you lose some form of pay? Could anyone shed any light on this?

Are there any other interesting clauses like this?

So as the company are introducing sector pay, the argument against doing so is “what if I’m not rostered to fly as much as someone else”.

so to protect that the company will guarantee your sector pay over the year will be at least 85% of the average number of sectors flown by pilots that year. But the guarantee is removed if you call sick 3 times in a year But the roster balancing system should try to get you back up to the average anyway.

so basically if you’re sick a lot, you potentially wont earn as much flight pay. Pretty industry standard I think.

this doesn’t affect basic salary.

There’s also non punitive fatigue days.
The long term sick policy is good.
Lots of suspicious pilots though.

Thanks for clarifying :ok:

None of it is accurate. FO Year 1 (Joining with < 3000 hrs) will be ~£91,600. SFO Yr 1 (>3000 hrs) ~£101,500. Captain Yr 1 ~£162,300. This is all based on doing 87 sectors a year and not falling behind by having more than two short term sick days, going on LTS or maternity etc.

Whilst the money is a welcome improvement, the deal is looking like it’s going to be rejected because the revised scheduling agreement is reducing the number of required days off after most trips or duties. ATL, Florida, NAS and Caribbean all used to attract three rostered days off, they will now attract two. The only trip that gains a 3rd DO is CPT. Florida trips that were two nights down route are being changed to one night. A rule to have a heavy crew is introduced but allows VS crews operate as 2-man for an hour longer than BA allows, and isn’t valid if you fly the A330.

And if it gets rejected what will happen?

Then the union go back and renegotiate, as has happened with many other pay deals at other airlines in the UK and worldwide

What, as has been discussed, happens if the reps resign?

Nobody wants that, but if it happens then there’ll be an election and some of the 993-ish remaining pilots will step forward and see what they can do.

The pay elements are backdated to 1 Jan no matter what happens, the roster protections proposed are not much better than currently being flown (and in a some cases worse in the short term) and in the meantime the company will keep haemorrhaging experienced pilots to places like WizzAir/DHL/Emirates and relying on huge disruption payments to keep the show on the road.

In reality, there are a few key improvements that can be made to the deal that would probably get it over the line fairly easily.

People leaving Virgin to join Wizz air. Feels a sad day.

Surely when Flying Pay is an element of your salary, a seniority based rostering system is required. Otherwise if just rostered by Scheduling. whim, they control your pay.
The more you choose/ bid to work, by seniority, the higher your monthly pay..And yes when off sick you do loose some pay, industry normal..

Monthly bid satisfaction doesn’t make a difference if the company sets up a decent monthly credit system for assigning work. Unfortunately, because there’s no mention of this being implemented, there’s no monitored way of knowing what the “roster optimiser” actually does. It’s just another reason why the offer doesn’t look good.

To their credit the company have included a guaranteed flight pay of 4 sectors a month to combat any work shy rosters.

Part time
 

Are Virgin still offering the Lifestyle and Lifestyle + contracts? If so anyone have updated payscales for these that they could share.

Officially yes but good luck getting on one. It’s not like the LCCs or larger airlines where asking for PT is a given, there’s a lot of people waiting to be allowed to go onto a part time contract.

The pay offer (unlikely to be accepted in its present form) has the Lifestyle estimated earnings, based on 70 sectors at £81,300 for SFO 1 and £132,100 for CP 2. Lifestyle+ is based on 57 sectors and is £66k and £107.4k respectively.

When's the ballot ?
 

When's the ballot ?

LFH

I sincerely doubt this. No one in their right mind should leave virgin for Wizzair. It’s like heaven and hell in comparison.

The problem in Virgin is that there are many who believe the grass is greener elsewhere.

Maybe, Virgin change the goal posts on a daily basis! The management are out of touch with reality. Best decision I made was to leave!

The problem with Virgin is that there are many that can’t believe that the grass is greener elsewhere.

So if anyone in the know could tell me if the new deal is likely to be struck down what is the VA pilot community after with a new deal?