Since the ban on overflying Russia, the flight takes a lot more gas and requires a four crew compliment. Under the current leadership, the impact of this on profit isn’t worth keeping the route, which is why it’s going.

As for the NEO rumour; I think we’re all looking towards FIA in two weeks with keen interest.

Are those pay increases on PPJN accurate?

If they are that’s a serious increase!!!

Makes BA look below par for sure.

Uplinker the days of throwing someone straight into the sim are long gone. Now it’s company induction, crm x 2, DG, SEP, Safety, security, compliance, meet the union, ground school to cover all those gadgets on the 350 which turns it into weeks !!

Yes, accurate. Going up another roughly 4% in January and another 4% in Jan 26.

Our allowances are HMRC standard rates (rubbish) and paid on a separate credit card so those figures are salary alone.

They are accurate but the new pay structure isn’t very clear on there.

We now get a Basic Pay plus Flying Pay for the first 60 sectors which combine to form our Fixed Total Pay. For SFO1 that £88132 + £8813 = £96945 (in 2024 payscale)

After 60 sectors we get a Variable Flying Pay per Flight Duty Period (a sector basically) of £141.01. So assuming you fly 91 sectors that totals £101880. If you fly above 91 sectors that flying pay becomes enhanced to £423.03 per FDP.

The bad news is that the variable flying pay elements are paid in arrears every February. The good news is that it’s all pensionable at 15%.

If you’re still really hungry for more cash then there’s a Productivity Booster which gives you another 11% on your basic in return for giving up all your roster protections to work EASA limits.

Have they started to return the west coast US trips to 2 nights downroute or is it still all 1 night ? That's a big concern.

PPJN is accurate although unclear. Your pay is guaranteed at 60 sectors per year, even if you fly 10 sectors. Anything over 60 sectors is where the variable pay comes in.

Almost everything you earn at a Virgin is pensionable, including office day payments etc. Only thing that isn’t is day off payments. Pension is total 21% (15 company, 6 pilot). Compared to elsewhere where it’s just your basic that’s pensioned.

Almost all (4 out of 6 flights per day) west coast has been 2 nights for the last 18-24 months. Just 2 flights are still 1 nights. But that is changing with new pay deal. All west coast will be 2 nights with 3 days off minimum

The rule in the new agreement is anything greater than 10 hours block time outbound = 2 nights. This is the same rule we had prior to Covid. Also covers South Africa, Maldives etc.

what are the implications with the new 330 order? more hiring 787 routes to be cut ?

Nothing really. New jets come in 2027, 5 787s leaving between 2026 and 2030. Recruitment continues for both fleets. I guess 787s will lose a couple of routes but not for quite a while.

Currently the 78 is hours high and sector short whilst the 330 is sector high and hours short. Company comms suggest that will be balanced out over the next two years, if I was to crap shoot a guess maybe CPT or SEA to the 339. Until the VP flight ops moves fleet I’d wager the 78 routes are pretty safe.

Putting an Airbus on the SEA route is a gutsy move!

And the company said the average hours per sector will reduce on the 787, but a lot of that will be done by the loss of the PVG route (14-15hrs). Main pilot shortage is on the Airbus, so they’ll shy away from deploying it on 3 crew routes for now. Can see the 339 picking up DXB for that reason and the J class being superior to be more compatible to EK. Maybe JNB to the 350, but no chance the 339 will fly 11hrs to CPT (must be about 13hrs at 0.8M ;)) Toronto will be 339 as well in the spring.

Bottom line… don’t make any career decisions one way or another based on the current fleet deployment, because it will swing at some point… but probably not in the short term.

Hey guys, anyone got any info about the commuting part of the contract? I’m in the process with Zenón and would love to hear any insights into how the roster turns out to be with the commuting option? As well as salary etc in relation to the base contract? I heard that the first year is mandatory to complete on a base contract and then it’s up for bidding?

They refer to it as the 'Compressed Working Option'. All we know is that it will initially run on a 6-month trial with 40 or so pilots and the trips will be rostered with minimal separation, such as back-to-backs, with larger blocks of days off in return.

I have a general question regarding fleets. I am type rated on A320 family and if recruited onto the A350 fleet can I expect a later conversion to include A330neo or would I remain exclusively on A350?

Yes, you would in time.

Working on the basis that the average sector is about 8hrs, on 750 hrs/yr that is equivalent to approx 90 sectors, so I could expect about 30sectors of Variable Flying Pay, paid each Feb, is this correct?

Is the 4% rise in Jan applicable to Basic pay, sector pay and variable/enhanced flying pay?

Is the 11% productivity pay on basic only, or do all the pay elements above increase by 11% as well?

Is basic pay YR1 SFO £88,132? I’ve read several times others including the 60Sectors guaranteed pay in the basic sum as it’s guaranteed, though by definition it’s not basic pay, just trying to figure out what figures to apply percentages to. Other forums are listing £96945 as yr1 sfo basic but I’m not sure this is correct?

Thank you for your help, please PM me if you can share this info, I’m weighing up a decision and need help with the financials.

When you join, you'll be put on a "Base Contract". The 750 hrs is a part-time option and at the moment you can't elect to join on a part time contract. Once you get the chance then yes it's capped at 750 hrs or 91 sectors, whichever comes first.

The 4% rise in January is on everything. I don't understand what you're referring to with "productivity pay" so I'll provide a breakdown:

Basic Pay (What everyone else in the world would call "Basic Pay" is split into two different payments (to get around the CEO's 5% for all payrise clause)). SFO Yr 1 2025
Base pay: £90,776 +
Fixed flying pay: £9,985 =
Guaranteed basic pay every year: £100,761

That guaranteed figure takes you to 60 sectors in a year. If you work 61-90 sectors then you get paid £145.24 per sector worked. If you work above 90 sectors, the sector payment goes up to £435.72. If you work a 'normal' year, expect a couple thousand a year as a Brucey Bonus in Feb.

Hope this helps.

That's a lot of questions!! You have to bear in mind that the ink is still drying on the deal and it's very complex. Still lots of misunderstanding on all sides and implementation "issues".

The company have previously stated that the average FT pilot was flying 87 sectors a year. A few less on the a Boeing (but higher block hours) and a few more on the Airbus (depending on whether you're 350 only, 330 only, mixed etc). But that is likely to change as the company move the fleet deployment around.

As for the 4% in Jan... that's made up of 3% on the basic and something like 11% on the flying pay. The variable and enhanced flying pay are fixed percentages of basic pay, so they go up by 3% as well.

I think by the "productivity pay" you are referring to the booster contract. That gives you 11% extra on your base pay for giving up your golden days and most of the union roster protections. The 11% is not applied to the flying/sector pay, but as you are flying more sectors, you'll hit the 91 FDPs quicker and therefore move onto the Enchanced Flying Pay quicker. At that point, each FDP (sector, basically) you
fly above 91 gives you £423 as a SFO1.

Hope that helps

Thanks for the info, looking at the sums then someone starting YR1 SFO with defined pension contributions and a bit of FRE tax allowance with no other adjustments will take approx £5300- or £5600 on booster contract with perhaps around £8000 each Feb. Does this sound about alright?

2024 Recruitment?
 

Had anyone been through the mill for Virgin this year? I have my second interview with Zenon scheduled and I'd love some insight before I go in. Any advise much appreciated!

Wondering why you think that? From my perspective (as someone with the choice right now) I'm finding it hard to decide.

Are they still using Jet Masteraclass rubbish procedure trainer as “sim” for the assessment?

When was 750hours ever called part time!

How common or easy it do do mixed fleet flying on the a330 a350. Is there a certain requirements based on hours/experience or seniority to determine it?

and what is expected when you say rebalancing of destinations with the fleet?

Hi femfly, I have tried to respond to your message but the system states that you don't want to receive messages/emails ? ......ah, maybe because you are new here. Give it a few more posts and pm me.

I probably don't have the info you require though, unfortunately.

Hi all, can someone explain more about the staff travel? We were told during their roadshow that the staff travel scheme was very flexible and that you could have quite a number of people on the list, a brief read here and on google suggests that everyone except spouse needs to travel with the employee, is that true?

Nope, not correct: any registered travellers can travel unaccompanied on Virgin aircraft.

However extended family/friends may be restricted on other airlines, depending on what category of traveller they are, and the particular inter-airline agreement.

That says a lot.. they are struggling to get pilots and retain them after the debacle of the Covid years.

Do yourself a favour and go to BA. Better route network and better all round, and probably won’t make you redundant in five years time.

Crew are still leaving Virgin every month and it's still not a happy place.

Latest union agreement, now has the company saying they cannot to commit to certain things.

it’s not been a happy ship since Covid… Taking secondments from EasyJet is telling.

Trust me as someone who left recently it’s much better at BA.

Avoid like the plague
 

VAA have a nasty habit of ignoring industrial agreements. The 2001 LIFO agreement ignored during Covid resulting in 15 year captains being made redundant because on the wrong fleet, 6 month junior FOs retained. The Managed Returned Pathway scheme for hold pool pilots failed the first test of replacing exiting pilots with ones from the hold pool… not able to at this time.

Government furlough scheme not utilised to save pilot jobs despite aircraft merely being grounded and a clear future requirement to crew them. VAA cited no money for the conversion courses to retrain senior pilots then paid the management team millions in bonuses shortly thereafter. This was all agreed by the BALPA chairman who is now head of flight crew.

It’s no longer a legacy, seniority airline. You will spend your career under a cloud of uncertainty, knowing that they will/can make you redundant using any criteria that suits them at any given time.

Join BA if you have the option where seniority principles are respected and you can at least plan on career stability based on this principal.

OMG, is this really the case? How can he have any credibility with the pilots, or even other VAA managers?

He doesn’t, they mock him.

But really the question should be why would anyone trust a manager that has repeatedly shown he only looks after his own “career”….

I’m not shocked. When you have people with years of seniority leaving a supposed seniority based company it’s telling.
Bullying by management is endemic in Virgin. If you dare to raise a safety concern or even simply question them you have a target painted on you.
Sexual harassment is covered up and excused as banter so for the ladies it’s definitely not a safe place for women. And more so if you are LGBTQ, which is completely the opposite to what they try to make out.

By all means if money is your driver, yes they have had a nice pay rise, but the devil is in the details and trust me VAA will shaft you, and not even have the decency to lube up first.

But if you want a safe and secure environment to beae
to plan for your future and family come to BA. Or go to DHL, Tui or anywhere else than VAA.

I have also heard stories that back up everything you say. Toxic.
BA, TUI, DHL, are way better options.

Just have to look at how many people are taking them to employment tribunal. I’ve never known a company that prefers to spend money on lawyers and payouts than fix the toxicity.

But virgin are only worried about one thing and that is brand image. Unfortunately for them more and more people realise it’s just Ryanair with long haul aircraft. And that’s not just amongst crew and colleagues past and present, passengers that used them in the past are saying the same.

It’s a real shame as I know it was better. When I joined all those many moons ago it was a friendly and collaborative environment where you could count on colleagues to look out for each other. Now because of the toxicity from above everyone is scared, crew will sell people down the river to get a promotion and no one dare question anything for fear of reprisal.
And it’s got to a point where I know from conversations with the flight ops inspector for the caa this is very much on their radar.

hi guys,
does anyone know where the Boeing TR courses are held for VA?

The vast majority of the nearly 1000 pilots are quite happy.
Biggest problem is a few troublemakers with loud mouths and unfounded rumours.
Quite a few entitled characters but the vast majority are great to work with.
Money is better, great pension and a redundancy agreement at last.