Let’s look at the last one first…. We had a redundancy agreement before Covid, didn’t stop the company ignoring it. Before you say the union agreed (without a vote), let’s look what role what the former head of the CC has taken since.🤔

Pension, was good but been equaled now by many employers.

Money? Well I’d rather have a long happy life in retirement with the pension mentioned above and live to see it than be flogged to death. I’d rather not be the richest man in the graveyard. Many of us joined not for the pay but for the lifestyle.

For sure there is a number of entitled chancers at vaa, more than I have found in other companies over the years. I give you the individual that wanted all the “covid” pilots to go to the bottom of the seniority list on return as an example. But I agree the majority are pleasant and decent people. Management on the other hand are generally spiteful, duplicitous and underhand in every way. If you dare to speak out for what’s right, for example if someone is being harassed or victimised then be prepared to face the wrath from management and their stooges in training to “manage the problem”.

And as for the loud mouth trouble makers…. 🤔

Can someone shed some lights on the pay breakdown?
I see on the internet for a SFO Y1 a 96000 figure.
may I know if that’s inclusive of any trip allowance? Is there any compensation paid for days spent on layovers?
how many days of layovers can you expect to do on destinations like NY, MIA, ORL, LAX, LGO, Maldives?

thank you for the answer guys

Completely agree, maybe if you’re in Crickets drinking half price Bud lights every trip but in NYC the allowances barely cover breakfast and lunch with the state of tipping let alone if you dare to look too closely at a beer

Any update on the current situation at Virgin? Has the latest pay deal been fully implemented and are there still pilots leaving?

Pay scales are live, lifestyle parts of the deal (part time, contract variations, guaranteed days off around annual leave etc) are all still firmly in the too hard basket and subject to a FTA from the union. Speaking of the union has been completely scrubbed from head to toe so the rather self-serving people in charge are no longer so.

In terms of retention rate it’s much better, there’s still the odd person heading to the sandpit but it’s definitely slowed down a lot.

CAE Gatwick

Scrubbed you say….
 

Yeah they are now in management instead, funny old thing… but I guess they had to look after the career.

Does anyone know where I can find details of the assessments and how to prepare for them?

Thank You!

Virgin is still not a happy place for all and a lot of issues with management.

Flight deck continue to leave every month from both Boeing and Airbus fleets for better employers.

The recent union agreement did not stop people leaving as what was hoped by the company. Some resigning recently upon finishing line training to join BA. The staff travel is not good but the pension is good with the company contribution level.

Those leaving have been joining BA, EK, Jet2 EZY and DHL etc. It's expected to continue during 2025 and the company is sponsoring non UK citizens for visa's and supporting license conversations.

As mentioned in another post, it would be better joining BA or one of the other above mentioned airlines.

Good advice Turbine? It’s far better for people to get on the seniority list with an airline where they are likely to stay, and will be happier, rather than spring boarding via Virgin.
What are the latest issues with management? Or is it just the toxicity?

Interesting. I have friends there and they seem to be happy but obviously improvements are always welcome. What are the main reasons for people leaving? I can understand leaving for easyjet/jet2 if one wanted a regional base to be closer to home. Is it the job security thats an issue? I understand new contract agreements with things such as a compressed roster for easier commuting has not helped?

There isn’t an airline on the planet that is a happy place for all! Yes there might be people leaving to take the cash at EK, commutability of a DHL 777 roster, regional base at J2, fixed pattern EZY contract or long term stability of working at BA… but there’s still plenty of people happy to stay where they are for a variety of reasons. I certainly don’t know the true number of people leaving so I very much doubt that Turbine does either. The company says the rate has slowed down since the pay deal but until an updated seniority list is published nobody knows for sure. And absolutely nobody can say what will happen in 2025.

There are ongoing disagreements with the implementation of the pay deal that the union are trying to deal with, and your quality of life (but also payslip) remain largely dependent on which fleet your’re on. Current management missed the chance for a relationship reset and the chance to rebuild trust… but changes are underfoot both in the union and at the VHQ, so who knows 🤷🏼‍♂️

All of these airline options have positives and negatives.. and anyone who tells you one is “better” than the other is selling snake oil… because it’s so dependent on different positives, negatives and individual wants and needs… all of which are likely to have changed in 5 years time after the next downturn anyway.

Yeah Virgin doesn’t have a good track record historically when it comes to downturns or recessions do they? And given the amount of debt they took on just to survive the pandemic I doubt they will continue if this period of uncertainty does as some fear become a recession then get ready for layoffs, again.

Good thing now is that they have a redundancy agreement, seniority based!

didn’t they have that last time 🤷‍♂️

No. The old one wasn’t fit for purpose. The new one is (apparently) iron clad.
The company realised they had to get a good agreement in place as it was a major factor for prospective recruits.

Oh ok, when I was there it was always LIFO but like you say wasn’t fit for purpose. You give 8 years to the company seniority list only to be booted out.

let’s hope they stick to it if there is a downturn next time.

I genuinely enjoyed working for Virgin once the landing gear came up it was great fun! But I find the upper management really out of touch.

oh I love your faith in management….
we had an agreement before, but they dodged it in 2020… do you think they won’t again given the opportunity?

This is exactly what I’m saying. They cannot be trusted.

Never trust virgin management.

Anybody know if Virgin still has crew based in Manchester? I heard they are struggling to get people to be crewed there but I also heard there is a long waiting list. Anybody able to shed any light?

Thanks

There is still a base in Manchester. For pilots, the main issue is that they spent the last year getting everyone up there single fleet rated (330/350) and over the winter there aren’t any 350s based up there, whilst London is still chronically short of 350 drivers. It’s not a super long list for pilots to transfer but it’s at the whim of the company, which will be on the go slow with all the training currency issues.

If applying probably best to assume at least a couple years in London before you’ll get the chance to move.

So today I have passed stage 3 at Zenon Aviation. Next Will be the simulator grading and final interview at London Gatwick. I understood from Zenon starting salary for a (S)FO is now £101.800 per year, which would be around £8483 gross per month. Any idea what this would be net? Also, when living abroad should I have to pay income taxes in the UK or in the country where I’m presently living? Is commuting even doable, or should I be prepared to move to the UK? Will VAA help me in order to convert my EASA ATPL into a UK license? And will the starting base for a A330/350 rated pilot be London Heathrow or Manchester? How many years for a possible upgrade from SFO to Captain? I read in this thread something about 7-8 years. Would that be correct? So many questions…

1. In the UK assuming 6% in your pension and no other deductions it’s roughly £5600 after tax.

2. Don’t take tax advice from strangers on Pprune. We also have no idea where you live and what your circumstances are. Talk to a tax adviser who will be able to answer your question correctly.

3. If you live near an airport which serves London with multiple flights a day all year round you could commute but I wouldn’t suggest it. There is a commuter contract option which puts trips back to back in order to give you more days off but I haven’t heard anyone actually being given it yet.

4. There have been offers made to prospective candidates to help cover the costs of licence conversions but if you need to do the ATPL exams or flight tests etc then expect to do all the legwork yourself.

5. You will only be assigned one fleet to begin with. Base with be LHR.

6. Roughly 7-8 years for command is correct at the moment but it has fluctuated in the past up to 12-13

This thread makes interesting reading. As does the one entitled “Can you trust your company training Captains?”.



It seems that the unfair dismissal tribunals which Virgin pilots as claimants brought in mid-2020 have only this week (after nearly 5 years of legal wrangling) started in Norwich ET.

To clarify on time to command, I would differ and say it is roughly 12 years but has fluctuated to 7-8. Plan on 12 and anything else is a bonus.

I was told if you go in with 3000hrs + as an SFO its around 5-7 years

I wonder why they would tell you that.

Didnt that get settled last year or are there more?

There are still tribunals running, probably the most important of all. It’s taken from Covid until now to get to the proper hearing.

The evidence will be very revealing.

its actually from a friend working there thats shown me the upgrade lists

I wish I could tell you it was 5-7, perhaps to a CAP but I think the days of 7 year commands are slipping now. I wouldn’t move specifically because you expect a command in 5-7, that is all I am saying.

That's strange, my best mate passed their Cap After 7 years, command will be 8 years for them.

They reckon things will slow down in the future once contracts are sorted, so joining now 8-10 years is realistic no matter what rank you join at.

Don’t base your hopes of an early command on what is happening with someone’s “best mate”, or what is the average today.
Look at recent expansion, retirements, resignations etc to understand why there are quick commands right now. Those drivers are unlikely to be there by the time you hit 8 years. It’s always cyclical.
Realistically, expect 10-12 years.
Anything shorter is a bonus.

There are others in the pipeline. One that will hit the media i am understanding as it’s quite explosive as to the truth of the culture at virgin.

There are no published upgrade lists at virgin.
So either your friend is in management and sharing data they shouldn’t be or they are making it up.

Because they are desperate to get anyone to join.

Brilliant response. And probably spot on

Indeed - there's no way command time will remain where it is, as the airline is not expanding. It's low now, to fill retirements and leavers. Once those positions are filled with essentially younger people, then command time will go back to the double figures it once was. Even those already on the seniority list should realise this.

Command time is currently 8 years.