They're happy to take back FOs, have you emailed DR?

Although the salary is lower at Flybe, by the time you add up all the extras such as, pension, staff travel, medical, uniforms, training, permanent contract, home base, it probably works out to be better financially than Ryanair - not too mention its more fun flying!

Instructing is hardly well payed either, it would seem like treading water career-wise to me? Within that few years I could have a couple of thousand jet hours.

Jet2, TUI, Norwegian, Titan, Virgin, Aer Lingus and easyJet all recruiting right now for UK/IRE jobs. There's no excuse for anybody to lower themselves to the level of Ryanair.

Vokes, a few good options there (Titan and Jet2 in particular imo) but no way will they all take you as a cadet fresh from flight school

No, but this thread was started by somebody with experience. Joining as a cadet is just about forgivable, joining with experience when there are so many far superior options out there isn't. TUI require just 300 hours on type, which most cadets would achieve in around 6 months or less, and is a job that's worlds apart from Ryanair in just about all departments.

The other end of the scale is captains who have the 'golden handcuffs' attached. Not for a long time have there been so many options for direct entry captains, both in the UK and abroad.

Completely agree with you there Vokes!

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/03/ryanair-pilots-hmrc-investigation-airlines-uk?CMP=fb_gu

don't join, you deserve better.

Curious they mention only 'sick pay: what about holiday pay? Pilots & cabin crew, they allege, are paid NOT for the work/duty they actually do, but only the time they were planned to do. That sounds even worse than a zero-hour contract; and perhaps gives RYR a legal escape when claiming there are no zero-hour contracts at RYR.

The mandatory company designated unpaid month off policy reminds me of a ruse used by an old employer of mine for 75% of cabin crew. They were employed on 11 month contracts and forced to take December off, unpaid. They were then re-hired on January 1st for another 11 months. That way they circumvented the EU rules that anyone working for 12 months continuously was deemed to be full-time employed. I do not know if that is still the case, but forcing an unpaid month off, instead of 2 x 2week separate periods seems a similar tactic. Curious.

FlipFLapFlop,
...but I do not consider Ryanair neither an airline company nor an option...
so there was no relation with Ryanair...

thanks anyway for your try..

Dear colleagues,

I would like to ask about your opinion regarding direct entry F/O to RYR. There are min. requirements: 1200tt, 1000 (CS25) and 800 B737.

With my 900 on B737(CS25) but only cca 1100tt is it possible to get there or try to apply for selection process? Or do you think it is much better to wait for full this requirements completely?

Thank you in advance for your tips.

No harm in applying. I would doubt with the current situation they will care too much about a few hours. Just make sure you do your research on what you might be getting yourself into!

why would you join an airline were almost everyone is trying to get out. At latest when you start your occ course in eastmidlands, where you will have to pay for your accomodation, food, uniform and transport to and from the training center, you will regret joining them......

flyingmed,Ronand: Firstly thank you for advice.

For the moment I am in good company and I can truly say that we have very good conditions. But honestly I would like to fly more (do not judge me because of this), I heard that in ryr you will get 900hrs per year "with out" mercy as FO. I have got 800hrs in my last 12 months but I would like to fly more. ->this is the reason

Actually I do not want to quit right now, but I wanna look around little but. Also heard that in FlyDubai you will be "bird", but there is min. req. 1500tt.

I wish you all the best guys!

Are you serious?

You are in a good company with very good conditions flying 800 hrs. a year and you are
thinking about joining Ryanair to fly more. You must be out of your mind!

No friends and privat life? more than 800h ?! :ugh:

Oh my god !
800hr and want to fly more !
You make me think about you do people iny airline, we are limited to 750 HR a years, but if you want you can ask to have this limit removed and go back to the normal 900hr ! Ofc no really extra salary, ... I was surprised of how many young guys took it.

This word is crazy !

You want to fly more hahahaha.... Go to Lionair they do over 1100 hrs a year. Or maybe better go to a psychiatrist!
It is people like you that are ruining it for everyone else...

Why is this thread still going? It's quite clear that nobody should be "joining Ryanair" any time soon.

What is wrong with wanting to do more of what you love. With the added bonus for a pilot of quicker logging more of the hours vital for promotion to captain. Good on you Tom4. Was once in a similar position but got slated by coworkers stating that I was driving up the pressure on others that had a life outside work, and it was not fair to older employees that couldn't keep up. Left shortly after. In the next company I quietly had a word with management and they scheduled me for some extra.

Ah, the innocence and stupidity of youth.

Give it ten years when you've had enough of being flogged relentlessly and you may just decide , " be careful what you wish for ".

Or you can grow up and get a life outside work.

There's aviating, sitting in the front seat, as a passenger, watching the fluffy clouds go by, romancing at the stars on your 4th night flight, wondering how the sun sank in the same window as it rose, wondering when you will get a chance to stretch your legs and get some blood flow into your muscles, wondering why your eyes feel so dry and your skin so greasy, watching the nose of the a/c follow the magenta line, watching the auto thrust control the speeds small deviations, watching the FD stay centred all the time, listening to the snores of the guy in the other seat who succumbed to the efforts of saying awake, watching the a/c follow the ILS to 500' and you doing exactly what ATC tell you to do (worse than being married) then an OMG moment as you need to sharpened up and disconnect it all to create a controlled arrival. You then spend a few moments trying to remember were you've parked you are on this day, not yesterday.
And then there's real flying. If you really want to fly lots & lots and be a real commercial pilot then join Highlands & Islands or go island hopping in Caribbean, or float plane flying in Scandinavia or west Canada, or fly for Suzi in Indonesia, or go to Botswana and fly the bush, or go to Air Alaska battle the elements. Live simple & have fun. Or you can strap an aluminium tube to your backside for hours on end and hopefully pay the mortgage and a decent car and finish with a retirement pot after 40 years with the piloting skills of a rooster and wonder what happened to the hobbies of our youth and the first 2 wives.
But hey, go for it and all success.

I have the better part of a decade in Ryanair. I will tell you what I believe an overwhelming majority of Ryanair pilots would tell you;

I would STRONGLY advise against joining Ryanair because you want to fly a few more hours.

I would fairly strongly advise against joining for any reason except impending financial ruin.

They couldn't possibly care less about staff. If you get cancer, they'll ring you every few months - they wont ask how you are, they will only ask when you can get back to the line.

You will be treated extremely rudely by crew control/rostering/anyone you have contact with. I know some who was denied parental leave for their child being born, because they hadnt worked there long enough (they had worked there for several years but Ryanair had recently, and without many options, changed their contract).

You get paid wrong - "ah Yeah, well you'll get the rest in next month's pay or the month after" - "next month? Wait that doesn't sound*other guy hangs up*

People on the outside always reply to these things "ah sure well it's not great there, but I can live without being cuddled and babied by an employer"

Those that join, without exception, change their tune when they experience the misery Ryanair has to heap on people seemingly randomly.

Most of your terms and conditions, except the very low basic pay (€20-25k for FOs and €60-70k for Captains)- are non-contractual and subject to change at a moment's notice.
I.e 5/4 roster (how's that going), annual leave (hahahaha), sector pay (upto >50% of your income, depending on rank). So on and so forth.

Ever been fatigued (now I'm into dangerous legal ground)? Nobody has, Michael says it's impossible. Even when you are sent out of base for months at a time.

I could go on.

That is why they're stuffed, don't believe the spin; they are very stuffed. It is not business as usual.

TheMightyAtom / Vokes55 speak the truth.

My husband worked his ass off for O'Leary for seven years. He came to the end of his tether (could write reams as to the reasons why but you already get the gist of attitude towards their 'contractors' in this and other threads) and left 18 months ago.

Shortly after leaving a brown envelope turned up on our doorstep....HMRC were investigating us for tax fraud. It was no coincidence, I know, and am communicating with, other pilots who have encountered the exact same treatment. On leaving they received the brown envelope too....

Ryanairs attitude - you dare to walk away? then we will dob you in to HMRC so you can battle with the tax man following the way in which we instructed you to join as 'self employed' ..... honestly, you couldn't make this stuff up!

Please, don't even consider joining Ryanair.

Voilá ... Everyone was happy !
-The coworkers on the previous outfit were happy that you left ...
-You were happy as you finally had the opportunity to be hero and stand out of the pack ...

Except maybe management. Within a few years all my ex coworkers where either pensioned off early or moved on into contracting. Helped on their way with some short-term economical incentives that was a financial win for them but not the profession.

As a Capt in FR on a FR contract based in the UK , what happens at age 60? I was told that this contract expires and you revert to just the self employed hourly rate type of deal.
Is this correct or is the FR contract maintained through to 65 if desired?

So, I have to pay for coffee and water, then I'll burn more fuel.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...or-union-fight

FR contract through to 65. There are a few guys on a FR contract over 65.

Re Ranges Bloomberg article. I must say the arrogance of Mr Barry Norris’s comments is rather astonishing. In what way are the Ryanair pilots massively overplaying their hand? It seems to me that 400,000 unhappy passengers as a result of a little boo boo associated with a tad of a hiccup with pilot leave, might just lend a touch of weight to the slim possibility that just maybe, pilots are quite useful to an airline, dare I say it, even crucial.

The argument that love or loathe, Ryanair and by association O’Leary have been a successful model, is not deniable. Indeed, there is no reason to say that this success should not continue. But to effectively say by implication that pilots are overplaying the influence that they have on that success indicates to me a level of arrogance because I doubt very much that in his position it is naivety. If you accept the premis that pilots do have an influence on any success, it follows that they have an equal influence over failure. If it is true that shareholders would rather see flights grounded for 6 months than a unionised workforce, it also indicates a level of ignorance as to how successful unionisation can and I reiterate CAN be. I will be honest, I was wary of joining BALPA and indeed there are still huge flaws, but it at least made my company look at itself. Of course we can discuss many other issues of the other benefits and equal forms of cover, but this isn’t my point. It is more that a unionised airline can still be successful and beneficial to all.

My final point and I’m aware I’m starting to ramble, is that the pilots thus far have shown incredible restraint and in fact I’m sure the general populous would be astonished to hear the pay rises that are being turned down. Those that do know are likely saying that pilots must be massively overpaid already then. The point they would be missing is that this isn’t all about money. Going back to my company, a few years back it was not a happy ship. Pilots were leaving at a high rate and those that remained were constantly fearful. This isn’t about my company though so I won’t go into the ins and outs, but suffice to say, with BALPA in place although generally in the background, things changed very rapidly. Yes, we did get a generous pay rise, but far from industry leading, and yes, we did get a couple of perks thrown in, but nothing to shout about, but the main thing was the cultural shift. We felt less and less, day by day that we had to fear the management, that sim sessions would be fair, promotions genuinely on merit and a feeling we could report genuine errors openly and we would be dealt with justly. This was more about the right people in the right job than anything. The result of this is that although we know (if you believe the offer) that we could make significantly more money moving to Ryanair, I know of nobody considering such a thing. We are recruiting easily and retaining more than we ever have. This is quite a statement knowing what is on offer out there now in the industry.

To sum it up, the pilots are far from being greedy and are seeking fairness, security and stability as their priority beyond money. This has been clearly demonstrated by the lack of uptake of the offer on the table. Essentially, I believe their hand is as strong as they chose to make it, in fact, no significant hands have been played yet. I think the players have only just been dealt their cards. We will see just how strong the pilots hands are in due course. I’m certainly looking forward to the river card.

youth is sadly allocated incorrectly (wasted) on the young...

I am not so sure about this as the contract states 60!

Not Ryanair I know, but my last company contract stated that the normal retirement age was 60 but, in exceptional circumstances, this could be extended to 65 with the agreement of both parties. I flew until I was 65.

The RYR contract expires at age 60. After that you can ask to continue working. The contract is then renewed on an annual basis up to age 65, or until you decide
to stop working before that age.
You can't fly a two crew aircraft with both pilots over age 60, and once over 65 you can't fly a commercial flight with passengers down the back, although you can operate ferry flights.

Dear colleagues,

I would like to say thank you for your answers!

I try to make overall view about the real situation in ryr and thanks to you it is possible. As I told I can totally understand that every man has different opinion, different personal, family and life situation, so maybe not all of pilots wants same conditions and lifestyle.

Foss - would you let me know when you’re calculating your 700 hours from. Would you kindly let me know if you can, how many you’ve done from both Jan 2017 until Dec 2017 (full calendar year) and separately Mar 2017 until Dec 2017 inclusive.

Cheers

Was a long time at FR. The fatigue thing was handled in the most idiotic fashion I've ever seen. They actually quoted some nasa scientist and told us how we couldn't be tired at all and then they went into stupid mega mode. They actually produced OFDM data showing the level of events per sector company wide during 4 sector early shifts. It showed a remarkable spike in sector 3. The voiceover clown then actually says 'this shows that there is no fatigue issue'. My first observation was the exact opposite, this clearly showed there was as that's exactly when you start getting tired on a four sector day. I believe nasa found out about this and told them to wind their necks in..

Also that guy above is absolutely spot on, I was treated like absolute :mad: and they constantly underpaid me. I had a real idiot base capt too which made things worse. I would say anyone who joins Ryanair now is mad.