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As soon as I heard it, I knew it was total rubbish. By the time time you add up all the duty hours on the ground and in the sim, it probably averages out at a normal 45 hour week; although they don't consider ground hours as work. :rolleyes::
As for €150k, do you really think it would be an average? Surely no pilot earns more than €150k gross, bar chief pilot maybe, at Ryanair so I'm not sure it could average out at that. |
Critical situation for Ryanair?
Do you mean that they are planning to pay the TR course for low hours? |
I say it can be the average cost that FR have with captains but including FR social contributions not only what they pay to the pilots.
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Originally Posted by SID PLATE
(Post 9849072)
Last post from me on this ..
The "authentic soul" (?) of most RYR trainers is that they want trainees to succeed. If a trainee doesn't make the grade after the usual number of sectors, and if that trainee has potential, they will be given extra training to bring them up to standard. The command course failure rate is low. Guys generally fail not because they can't handle the aeroplane, or because they don't know, or follow, the SOP's, but because they can't manage the flight. The training department won't put you on a command course for a number of reasons. It's nothing to do with a conflict of personality between you and your Base Captain, or between you and the training department. It's more to do with if they think you have a chance of passing the course. If they don't, they will give you more time to work on your operation, or your attitude. A command course, even in Ryanair, is not an automatic right even for someone who's been in the RHS for 'two years'. RYR's SOP's aren't difficult. You might argue that some are unnecessary, (I would..) and some are marginally stupid. They won't, however, kill you. If the company which pays you wants you to operate in a certain way, then why not just do it ? You claim to know, and follow the SOP's. Half your battle is won then. You might want to address the other half and ask yourself if your attitude might be the problem? If so, consider doing something about it. Good Luck. Anyway guys, I agree that SOPīs are for something and can save your life... and I repeat it is not the problem here... |
Originally Posted by smthngdffrnt
(Post 9849172)
Critical situation for Ryanair?
Do you mean that they are planning to pay the TR course for low hours? Captains are where any shortage maybe. As long as they can make it to September it will mean the hopes and dreams that T & C's will improve for staff are over for another year !. They previously ran NTR courses but from what I recall there was a healthy bond for 3 years attached. |
Its not the low time pilots , but possibly the very experienced returning expats that are keeping salaries low. DEC at J2, EZ, NLH is popular for the cashed up 50 somethings Ex. EK & QR brigade. Or occasionally, from Asia.
If you have a 1 million quid house paid for, kids left Uni and a place on the Costa, then its just pocket money from your work. Pilot shortage? No 'ere in the UK, look east sir. |
Recently a very experienced TRI/TRE from my present lot resigned to join Ryanair as NTR DEC on the same base where he was on the previous airline but with a gross pay reduction of €20k. When asked why he simply said that FR as a better lifestyle and job security. Who knows.
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Could I ask how much take home you'll be looking at joining ryanair as a non type rated DEC? Would Barcelona or Girona be possible immediately on joining?
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What about as a dec and you get the base you want can they move you then?
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If you're a contractor they can, and often will, have you operating "out of base". At times you could see rosters which had you more out of base in a month than at home base.
If you're on a Ryanair contract you are safer. However, ask what happened to the pilots in Marseille, Girona, Copenhagen, Billund or Oslo when the base closed (or downsized). |
If you're taking it for the base bear in mind that you'll have to move again in a year or two. I worked with a guy who came here with similar experience to yourself with the promise of being in his home base. He hadn't realised he wouldn't be staying there after the upgrade until he received an email telling him to choose between Kaunas, Vilnius, Sofia, Otopeni or Timisoara! |
The answer is YES
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Why is that?
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Because then they can use your preferred base as a carrot for something else.
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I know plenty of FOs in larger bases who have upgraded to Capt and stayed in their base. It's not as clear cut as saying it is guaranteed you'll have to move. You probably will have to, for a while, but it's not a 100% certainty.
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I don't know even a single one
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I know quite a lot of guys so lucky to do their upgrade training in their base and then keeping their base. So it's just about being lucky and not dropping your trousers during the interview...
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If you've stayed long enough to do your command then you're probably used to dropping your trousers
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I know a guy who joined as a cadet - SFI - Captain - TRE and has never been based outside of the UK since he started with Ryanair. It's not the worst company out there.
But, it's more funny to read all the jaded, negative, emotionally loaded drivel on pprune than have a balanced discussion. |
All the FOs of my base has been sended out after the Command Upgrade. Even they finished the line training without base assigned. But everybody out for at least 1 year
This is the way is working now as far as I know |
Vokess55, no I joined last year for the base opportunity and cause I prefer to work 180 days/year. I'm not telling anybody that it is the company we have been dreaming for, but that if you are able to find your dimension inside it and not get stressed and swithing off your phone when you are off,it's ok.
About the base it's a gambling sometimes, they usually provide the one you're askin' for DEFO and DEC, especially, to make you join. I'm not one of those signing a training bond for upgrade with the base in blank, I'm not willing to move for 1'000 more euros a month...! |
In one base I happen to know for a fact that most upgrades got to stay.
I flew with all of them at one point , so this is fact , not fiction. If you want upgrade and want to stay in base, tell them so. Simple . |
180 days a year? I work about 65-70 days a year, get paid a lot more and, unbelievably, get given enough bottled water to do the job without dehydrating.
But it's ok, because MaverickPrime "knows a guy" so it must be just more 'emotionally loaded drivel'. |
Originally Posted by Vokes55
(Post 9843119)
An FO with over 3000 hours joining Ryanair? You must've been desperate.
Expect the minimum amount of sectors to get you onto the line, followed by 100 hours every 28 days for the rest of your career. You'll get four days off per week, but make sure you have a second phone, otherwise you'll be woken up at 5am every day by them begging for you to work your day off (for no extra money). Oh, and if you don't answer your phone, you'll be taken off the roster and face disciplinary action. Good luck! ;) are you dutch? |
How is life in FRA base ? Average income CPT ?
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Would also be interested to hear about FRA. I'm due to start there in Sept.
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Originally Posted by MaverickPrime
(Post 9852979)
I know a guy who joined as a cadet - SFI - Captain - TRE and has never been based outside of the UK since he started with Ryanair. It's not the worst company out there.
But, it's more funny to read all the jaded, negative, emotionally loaded drivel on pprune than have a balanced discussion. A very misleading post. If it is true then that guy is incredibly lucky and VERY much in the minority. Be very wary with regards to basing. |
Yes, very much in the minority
People did get to stay in their base or the country where they were based, but in many cases they were in regions that were considered as 'unpopular choices' with the rank and file. Great if that where you live, but not always a guarantee. There's always going to be a case of 'I know someone who knows someone' who has stayed in his UK base since day dot in somewhere as big as FR. I was there for quite some time and in my experience it was very rare. Most people did get back to where they needed to be eventually. In some cases it takes years. Lots of people just leave because of the uncertainty and tension it creates. |
It does seem an odd way to treat a 'valued asset'; to promote them into a position that is critical to the well being of the company, both as ambassador & safety, then deliberately test their stamina by disrupting their family life. True, it might be necessary due to no local vacancies, but to do it because 'that is the way it is', and even in another country that will reduce your rest time due to committing seems to send the wrong message about the company's opinion of your worth.
All that stuff we get pumped into us every 6 months about team work and creating a positive atmosphere does not seem relevant on the ground when 'mission control' is pulling the strings. Sad. |
And why is so hard to assign bases by seniority?
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Not many DEC would join if they would end up in the bottom of the seniority list. Base of choice, good roster and reasonable income is what attracts people to join, isn't it.
On the other hand, less likely people would leave if they knew what to expect. |
I detest these kinds of self-satisfied boasts:-
180 days a year? I work about 65-70 days a year, get paid a lot more |
I realise commuting to bases is a big issue with regards to the 5/4 roster and how it isn't as great as it seems for certain people.
If I'm based in, lets say Milan. If I live in Dublin and a flight to Milan with RYR gets me in in perfect time for my shift, do crewing ever let me work that flight over so that the commute is actually a flight over to my base that i'm working? Or would that be too nice? |
Valued Asset....in Ryanair ....you guys crack me up :}
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Originally Posted by SliabhLuachra
(Post 9862877)
I realise commuting to bases is a big issue with regards to the 5/4 roster and how it isn't as great as it seems for certain people.
If I'm based in, lets say Milan. If I live in Dublin and a flight to Milan with RYR gets me in in perfect time for my shift, do crewing ever let me work that flight over so that the commute is actually a flight over to my base that i'm working? Or would that be too nice? They will send you out of base but only to do pairs of flights. The issue with doing the DUB-BGY flight to work is someone has to do the outbound (if its from BGY) to get the aircraft to DUB or the return to DUB if its a Dublin based aircraft. Having people do single sectors would be a rostering nightmare. The only way that would ever happen is by doing a swap with an Italian F/O from Milan based in Dublin and you would both need a perfect matching roster and one of you be doing the DUB-BGY or BGY-DUB flight to make it happen. Chances are about zero. |
My Type was in 2007 and everyone I know from that course still has left. Seems like its pretty natural for everyone to move on and I recon Ryanair expect and plan for that. Maybe even encourage it.
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How far can one live away from their base with Ryanair? Is it based on miles/km or time to get to airport?
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Time. Need to be 1 hour from the 'reporting station'. I'm 50 miles away from my base.
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Shared roster
Anyone know if theyre still offering a shared roster ? IE 5 on 13 off ?
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Yes but not at initial recruitment stage. It can be only applied for from within.
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