And a part of that EU Passport

100% Agree.

Not offering your hard working employees free bottled/filtered water is just about the most morally reprehensible any employer can do. Here we have the 6th most profitable airline in the world and the only one that doesn't give their crews free water, despite those crews busting a nut and flying 4 sectors a day working within a dried out tube. How anyone can defend that is beyond me.

4. Not a contractor but with a few increments and in training last P60 was @£135k


That's very disingenious to say the least. If you are taking that type of money you are on an old contract not available anymore.
If you have increments then you have not moved base in 10 years. If you moved or were forced then these would be gone.
You are at the top of the training pile as a TRE again an option many DEC will probably neversee.
In one way being one of the ' old guard ' you are trapped in your current position as any move even upward would have a financial penalty.
Most DEC or cadets joining today will probably have to move airline to reach the same level as you but sometimes it seems that's what Ryr want ! ....but post Brexit I wonder if MOL will use that to adjust UK based pilot's income. All imho of course .

All fair points dd and yes thats my situation.

Wasnt trying to be disingenuous or unbalanced.

As I said the in my list (1 - 3 anyway) they are same for all pilots.

I have been there a long time but I agree we are going backwards.

Things to improve here.

5/4 yes is a good Roster but most of the working days 4 sectors and between 10-12 hours Duty in the best of the case with no slots, can kill everybody. Occasionally to do 4 sectors is ok but not 90% of the time.

Keep good TREs, SFIs in the company, it is very sad to go Stansted and see some TREs with not common sense at all, evaluating Command Assestment function only of your SOPs knowledge. The y don't care how do you fly, handling skills... SOPs adherence is the most important thing here, so lots of Senior FOs after 2 years joining the company or even less decide to go out.

Salary difference between Senior FO and cadet in Ryr contract is 0 Euros. To be in the program for the Command Upgrade and get the extrapayment of 10 Euros per hour it depends only of your Base Captain, it doesn't matter your experience or loyalty to the company... please Sirs, put automatically all the seniors FOs with 1800 hours on 73 in the program. Automatically put all the OCC guys in this program, there is a MEMO which you can stay in the program 18 months before your Upgrade...

Again after the upgrade, SENIORITY LIST. I would like to see where I am for getting my home base.

Split the holidays in two blocks of 15 days. Why we have to take 1 month in one shot?... year is very long, let your people to split their holidays, it would mitigate fatigue.

Crewcontrol support and respect to all pilots. Crewcontrol should helps crews when something happened and there is an overnight in one airport and also I would like to hear "get better" when I call sick, specially when we are doing 85-100 hours per month in some airports at 40 degrees.

Try to motivate your people, moral is essensial in this business. Try to keep your experience people on board, listen them, be an open mind.... don't go to Brazil or ME for pilots and work in other direction.

Cheers

Hi there,
Yes the base is the one that i wanted. So am pleased with that.
Do you know about the differences between a direct contract with fr and the other brokers? I guess i have a choice...

No am not desperate, its a choice I've made to have a base where i wanted to be..... about the flight hours, that doesn't sound so possible does it? I mean its all regulated by the authorities, i guess its fair for all companies. I've been in others were we flew to the max, I guess nothing is new there...

Well said Artie... exactly my thoughts... its about making ends meet at the end....

I worked at Ryanair as a contractor for many years.
There are lots of good and bad things.

Almost everything in this tread is correct, good and bad.

In regards to discipline for not answering the phone - FACT! Totally true and has happened on many many occasions. I know from personal experience.
Also, if you answer your phone (from a withheld number) on a 'working day' and it is crewing, they are notifying you of a duty change. Even if they are moving your start time forward by 3 hours, you can not reject it or disciplinary. It is a fact and has happened to one of my ex-colleagues on his day one (he commuted weekly by car to his base so was not able to make the new brought forward report time on day 1).
Want to sleep a whole night through, then don't give Ryanair your primary phone number. Get a burner phone because they do and will call you on your days off at 4am, or even on working days. According to a Chief Pilot memo, if you don't want to be disturbed, pilots should turn their phones off, and contacting a pilot via telephone does not constitute interrupting rest. This is FACT and I believe this memo is still circulating various forums.

However, get a permanent contract in a base close to home, learn the tricks and be informed BEFORE you sign the contract, it can be an OK place to work.

One piece of advice I would give anyone looking for information on Ryanair.......go to an airport that Ryanair operate from. Sit on a bench inside the terminal and wait. At some point you'll find a pilot come along with his wheelie suitcase, pull out his jumper, and make a little nest to sleep on for a few hours whilst waiting for his 'privilege travel' flight back to his home on the other side of Europe.
Ask him directly, speak to the pilots face to face about it. You will be surprised at what a different story you get from Cadet, 2 stripe, 3 stripe and 4 stripe. Everyone has a different experience.

I left Ryanair after a long time. I didn't want to, but I was left with no alternative due to terrible contract terms and conditions. I went to another airline which is a lot nicer and more respectful, however I work more disruptive patterns and shifts here then I did at Ryanair.
The roster is good at FR, and the 'home' (read back at base) every night is really something I miss. No through the night flying and all flights on deck by 23:59 is something that you take for granted until you're doing night flights arriving at 03:00. Those extra hours are a killer.

Would I go back to Ryanair - most likely not.
However,
if I was offered the same pay and conditions as where I am now, to fly from my local airport - I would go back in a flash.
Stansted is not a normal base, and neither is Dublin. It's like comparing Gold to Tin. They not comparable to the regional 3-5 aircraft bases where you fly with the same people and have very little schedule disruption.

As everyone says, Ryanair could be the best employer in Europe. Get rid of mafia that's been at the top for an eternity, and it could be amazing.
Look at what CEO easyJet achieved in her 7 years. Ryanair management have been there since day one, and it shows how much of a cash cow that airline is for the boys at the top. I'm not sure if anyone has noticed how dictators and tyrants never give up power. Maybe there is a connection..............?
Speaking of which, If anyone gets a chance to read a book this summer, give George Orwell's Animal Farm a try. It seemed a very familiar tail, but I can't quite place my finger on it.......

Big thing, the general consensus of the employees is that management rule by fear, and the pilots BELIEVE they have no rights or the ability to stand up for themselves. After flying from Stansted and Dublin, and seeing how the Cabin Crew are treated, I can understand this mentality, but once I was shot of those big nightmare bases, it was a lot better.

All I would suggest is the following:
- Know the Ops manual inside and out
- Know the regulations inside and out
- Have a 'Ryanair phone'
- Always have a date in mind that you want to have off. If you are called to see if you can help, then 'negotiate'. (I always helped them if they helped me, and I always got what I asked for). If the don't keep their end of the bargain, tell them so next time and that is why you are refusing to help them.
- Never worry about carrying extra fuel. I always took what I wanted and never had to explain myself - EVER (but I wasn't a doosh like some of the people that take a ton for the sake of it in CAVOK).
- Always keep all memos and correspondence. Memos appear and then are 'removed' without notice
- Always keep a copy of your training records

Actually, whilst I am on this and I read somewhere earlier about Cabin Crew being grilled on SEP before each flight.
Some years ago, the management removed the CM1 ability to offload crew that the CM1 deemed unable to conduct the flight safely. The reason this was implemented (apparently) was due to the number of crew being bullied or offloaded by vindictive cabin managers who would find obscure SEP questions that no one knew the answer to, to try and catch out people they didn't like.
If a CC member is unable to give answers to procedures that must be known form memory, then why are they allowed operate.
That is like saying If on a line check I do not know my EFATO drills, I can carry on operations anyway as "everyday is a learning day".

Also, under the old IAA system of 'hours reset in April' it was possible to fly 1200 hours in a 12 month period. It's no longer possible. To be honest, I was always surprised at what was approved in the Ops manuals by the IAA.


I've had a bit of a rant, and contradicted myself a number of times, but this is the thing about Ryanair. There are good and bad things about it, and after so many years I am still unsure as to if it is a good or bad place to work. Maybe I have a bit of Stockholm Syndrome, but one thing is for sure, Ryanair is one of the safest places to be employed right now. And by employed, I don't mean on a tax beneficial agency contract! - STAY AWAY FROM THE AGENCIES!

And not forgetting the constant sniffles and cold you'll carry around with!. Due to the vast number of people operating for RYR who are effectively ZHC (zero hour contractors), people are loathe to take time off as it hits their pocket. Therefore instead of keeping their ailments at home they bring them to work so as the rest of us may share them!

Do you know about the differences between a direct contract with fr and the other brokers?

One operates under EU employee rules and protections, the other doesn't; you are on your own as vulnerable as a new born antelope on the Serengeti.

A voice from the "real world"
 

As an outsider with not insubstantial economics and business quals , I'd say a larger percentage of the flight deck crew on here than they would be comfortable admitting wouldn't be in aviation at all if it wasn't for Ryanair.
Im sure they are not a good to work for as some legacy carriers and other locos but i doubt they give a flying frig.

Their business models super aggressive pricing actually creates demand in many cases and it's not airline managers offering low cost seats ,cos they want to, it's the public wanting it. But as I said, ryanair can actually create demand on routes by offering the super cheap seats that people who will go anywhere if it's cheap will travel on. There's evidence of towns and areas which where previously just industrial, having their tourism massively boosted as Ryanair have started flying into their airport. Some people actually now go to Girona due to Ryanair !!!!!

I'd hazard Ryanair's management fully embrace the fact that they are a "nursery" airline for many pilots and it's likely that a consciouss decision is made that while staff turnover remains below a certain point, they would likely not go out of their way to make these people feel all warm and fuzzy. I wouldn't invest in people who are just going to get the min hours to get into a ME job and leave, it would be madness.

Long and short, it's supply and demand, if they don't have to offer better t and cs, they won't, and while there is demand elsewhere for pilots and they can get people to pay their own Type ratings, they will carry on being that airline that many just use as a stepping stone and not give two hoots about it.

Trust me folks, you could have much worse jobs, for much worse money for many many more hours. Maybe remember that before being so scathing of an organization that by its existence has some of you in work elsewhere at all.
And before some smarta**e chips in, I'm fully aware they just lifted southwests business model and ran with it.

Their problem now is that their longer serving, more experienced crew are leaving, Sim examiners and trainers, line training captains, the experience level is deteriorating into a spiral that threatens to ground many aeroplanes.

Yes. A couple of very highly respected senior TREs who i had marked down as "lifers" have just joined Jet2. Not too mention the countless FOs and Captains that are heading "oooop north" in STN.

Excellent post jayc004, really appreciated, thankyou

All the best

Well, with all those resignations Ryanair must do something otherwise soon it will be unsustainable to run the expansion show...

They don't give a :mad:. When I resigned, they called me to ask where I'm going to, what position and said ok ciao.

To that I replied "so that's it," you don't say thank you and you don't try to negotiate with the guys leaving."

Answer from Emma Af. "No, it's not a company policy"

Did you thank them?

Why would they try to negotiate if you already resigned?

And before some smarta**e chips in, I'm fully aware they just lifted southwests business model and ran with it.

The biggest myth out there. Both RYR & easyjet make this claim. If they claimed they had cherry-picked some of SWA's business model that would be fair. Was it not the case, a few years ago, that SWA was voted in the top 10 of best US companies to work for? Business model includes employment practices & philosophies.

Agreed that things will only improve when the supply of cadets & pax dries up. It is likely, if/when, the crew issue will arise before the pax issue.

If you check out their FB page you will see that they do indeed have a lot of respect for staff and are always running initiatives to help them and their families.

It will be very interesting to see how short they will get this year, every summer it was always "this summer it will fall apart" but somehow they managed. Allowing no leave and getting mugs in to work days off I suppose! The problem now is there is so many job opportunitys around. I hear through the grapevine that 30 or so captains and the same amount of FOs in STN alone have other things confirmed - Jet2/Easy/China/NLH and a lot of FOs still sitting in the BA hold pool. Interesting times! Will that improve the Ts n Cs........of course not!!!! They are too stubborn for that!

Will that improve the Ts n Cs..

How can RYR improve the T's & C's when the vast majority of pilots are self-amployed working for rates via agencies? Perhaps if the self-employed (like my plumber) invoice for what they deem to be suitable rates. :confused:

I failed the assessment at Ryanair last year, I get a call now from a recruiter saying they're giving us a second chance if we're interested. ....mmmmm let me think about this......yawn......

Yes, because you learned only now that Ryanair is bad, last year everybody thought that it was the best airline in the world, that's why you applied :rolleyes:

At the end of the day this is just another forum. The only people who have time and energy to write on forums are either the unemployed or the deeply hurt ones.

so which are you? Deeply hurt or unemployed? You obviously have the time!

I started 2007 in FR and left 2012 and every summer was the usual they will have to ground planes. They all seemed to keep flying.

Don't forsea any changes on the horizon while ever the sausage factory is in full swing. The LTC's could have the company by the balls if they all just downed tools for a 5 day roster period and then negotiate to come back. But not many people are willing to risk losing a mortgage payment so it won't happen.

As many have said it could be the best airline to work for with just a little change. But they prefer the iron distance approach.

Can't remember what they turned as a profit last year but circa a billion? What's the goal? I'd rather have £800million and the happiest work force on the planet. Could probably fire half the legal team then to save some money.

Actually, none. I've been in RYR for over 2 years now, and quite happy. It's all individual. There are far worse airline jobs than this, and there is ALWAYS be something to moan about, in every airline. You just have to be the type.

"Keep good TREs, SFIs in the company, it is very sad to go Stansted and see some TREs with not common sense at all, evaluating Command Assestment function only of your SOPs knowledge. The y don't care how do you fly, handling skills... SOPs adherence is the most important thing here, so lots of Senior FOs after 2 years joining the company or even less decide to go out."

You're still not quite getting it, are you Samca old son ?
If you want a command in RYR, you have to know and follow the SOP's. At least until you've done your command check. They are there for a reason. Over thirty different nationalities, and levels of experience between 200 and 20,000 hours plus. It's a safety thing.
You might be able to ace a raw data limiting crosswind approach in the sim, but if you don't follow, or know the SOP's you'll continue to get crap marks, and your sought after command course will disappear over the horizon. You'll be left gazing wistfully at it, still in the RHS.
The system isn't flawed, hombre, take a look in the mirror.

I follow the SOPs and I know the SOPs... that's not the reason why I'm not in the LHS yet...
yes SID PLATE the system is working, bravo... I still flying RHS after two years in the company. For me it was enough time 6 months flying to follow the SOPs like a bot, SOPs here are difficult to learn BUT not impossible and as I said it could be hard at the beginning but after a few months you are just one pilot more.
What you seems to be out of game "son", is your completely lack of common sense. To STOP some guys in his path to the Command because he forgot to put PROG page 4 in final when you as TRE are repositioning the SIM continuously for performing different exercises, this is just an example... That is what you are looking for when you tick the box than a pilot is ready for his Command?
Anyway and as I told you in other posts, I don't care because I'm going to be Captain in this company or in other, it's doesn't matter but you are still going to be a bad person, bad trainer with no common sense but of course an excellent knowledge of your SOPS.

Enjoy,

You are stubborn, samca. That's not a good qualifying characteristic. A Captain needs to know how to listen to arguments opposing his gut feeling. There is a very good technical reason for it.

A pilot is ready only once he grows beyond his "I am ready and entitled" period.

One more month , and Dublin pulled it off again!
 

I have had my money on RYR not having enough crew for the main summer season. ( June July August) For a few years now.

I was wrong.
But the next year and a half should get interesting.
Again I am going to bet there will be problems if conditions do not change.
To many TRE, Linetrainers and Captains leaving.
I think if the stock owners understood how critical the situation is about to become , we would see some changes soon.

Who knows, one day they give us free water and coffee, and Samca as LineTrainer?

Oh Dear, I should be careful what I wish for !
Ok: Coffee is on me!

Yes please I want to know the authentic soul of the best trainers like you guys!!!

If so many TRE and LTC are leaving most certainly there will be problems with recurrent training and new pilots getting delayed on the release to line operation with others sitting at home waiting. That will lead to disruptions in flight operations. Ryanair for sure must have a plan to cope with that since, apparently, they seems not be interested in adjusting T & C.

I think this is one of those where too many are leaving but there is still growth so it's hidden from view sort of. Still more pilots overall than last year but not enough perhaps. Still growth... Planes still flying. People visit new places. Pilots still apply. Money to training department. Pprune free advertisement - Great training department. So if all would stay and be happy it would be more growth more money more flights, shareholders don't get regular dividends anyway.

Errr say that again :/

If you listen to any of MOLs meetings with shareholders, they are on YouTube, he often talks about how his pilots are paid €150k/yr and they only work 17 hours a week. Obviously no pilot in Ryanair earns anywhere near that sort of money apart from maybe some training captains. The problem with FR is that the exceutives like to think their pilots are laughing all the way to the bank, when it's actually the other way around.

It's philosophical really. FR has no interest in doing deals or competing with anyone. They just want to get the upper hand in every single area of their business and completely dominate and control every aspect that could have a negative effect on their bottom line.

I listened to the new CFO talking to some business news outlet and he threw around phrases like 'kill other airlines'; whatever happened to healthy competition...

This is the reason that T&Cs will never change at FR; because it would mean that the company would have to give concessions and that will never happen! Compromises and concessions do not exist in the world of Ryanair.

Last post from me on this ..
The "authentic soul" (?) of most RYR trainers is that they want trainees to succeed. If a trainee doesn't make the grade after the usual number of sectors, and if that trainee has potential, they will be given extra training to bring them up to standard.
The command course failure rate is low. Guys generally fail not because they can't handle the aeroplane, or because they don't know, or follow, the SOP's, but because they can't manage the flight.
The training department won't put you on a command course for a number of reasons. It's nothing to do with a conflict of personality between you and your Base Captain, or between you and the training department. It's more to do with if they think you have a chance of passing the course. If they don't, they will give you more time to work on your operation, or your attitude. A command course, even in Ryanair, is not an automatic right even for someone who's been in the RHS for 'two years'.
RYR's SOP's aren't difficult. You might argue that some are unnecessary, (I would..) and some are marginally stupid. They won't, however, kill you. If the company which pays you wants you to operate in a certain way, then why not just do it ?
You claim to know, and follow the SOP's. Half your battle is won then. You might want to address the other half and ask yourself if your attitude might be the problem? If so, consider doing something about it.
Good Luck.

17 hours a week is for sure an average. If multiply 17 by 52 weeks you get close to 900 hours. Also the €150k/year could be the average cost that FR has with each captain. Anyway, it is a very clever way of passing the message to owners that pilots are well paid even if the reality is, well, quite different.

Just my 2 cents...