stoneangel

Currently it is not uncommon to see cadets waiting 4 months sometimes more before they start line training and therefore before they start getting paid.

If you join as a cadet you’ll be into a service company which means that much of your living expenses can be deducted against income, so when you do start earning you’ll be paying little or no tax for some time to come, but be very careful to document everything that you spend and get receipts for everything. How long this will last going forward will likely depend on the country that you’ll be based in. In many countries this type of service company will not pass the test of false self employment, the real irony is that the revenue go after you not the employer, yet it is the employer who gets the real saving through not having to pay NI (national insurance contributions) which unlike the employee NI have no upper limit and are levied at around 13.2% in the UK, put into perspective that means a pilot earning a £100k over any period in a service company is allowing the true employer (if proved) to evade/avoid £13200 in NI contributions.

There is a similar example in the UK courts this week involving a BBC TV presenter who had a service company claiming she was self employed but the courts found in favour of HMRC that in reality she was employed by the BBC and they (HMRC) are chasing her for £400K in taxes, interest and penalties

Seek professional advice before you sign up to a limited company scheme as a service provider and secondly ask if you have any choice in the matter, ie is direct employment an option to self employed, if you are told it must be a self employed service provider then you have your answer, you aren’t really self employed because the ‘true’ employer is dictating the terms of your contract.......

Of course there are an increasing number of airlines playing this game to a greater or less degree, if you join Norwegian you wont be employed by them but by OSM who provide pilot services to the airline, the difference is that you are 100% an employee of OSM and pay tax and and NI the same as you would if you were employed by Norwegian directly, for most that means you can sleep at night not worrying about a dawn raid by the tax authorities

In other words, in the UK Ryanair has the taxpayer subsidising it's pilot training program. Luckily I don't live there, which means:

One wonders about a question. Many of the guys who are falling foul of self-employed II35 investigations, and others who will be ruled against by HMRC, it seems were those who set these schemes up themselves, perhaps in a false belief. We are told that in RYR's case the schemes are set up by RYR and the pilot has no choice in the matter. Comply or no job. How would that make the pilot 100% culpable?

100% guilty cause everything is written black on white on the "provision of service" MCGinley contract for the pilot.
Signed mean understand and comply, end of the story. Unless the pilot is able to prove that he's completely stupid and doesn't get what he's doing. Not very genuine for an airline pilot don't you think ?

Quite some time ago, pilots on the “new” Brookfield contract (3-pilot ltd companies set up in Ireland) who were British citizens based in the UK were told HMRC required them to pay all tax and NI in the UK. Needless to say the HMRC expense rules are rather more stringent than the Irish.

One ended up paying both employees and employers NI contributions with 5% reduction in your taxable income to account for general expenses the only alleviation, unlike those under the Irish taxman who were paying themselves €800/month and taking the remainder in expenses.

Ryanair DAC, Dublin Office, Airside Business Park, Swords, Co. Dublin

or

Waterside Hammondsworth England, British Airways Fort Fumble

or

Coward Street Mascot NSW 2020, Qantas Airways Fort Fumble

The mantra by the these HR/IR dark art practicing types is the same:

Spare NO expense to save a penny.....................

Heard quietly as these Blattodea continued their manic pursuit of lower labour unit cost, was the ritual chant, no pilots means no labour cost, imagine the profits!

Perhaps Ryanair will get closer to their 'nirvana' than we ever imagined :E

Who in their right mind accepts these T&C's! Jesus, man!

Pretty sure they won't buy you a ticket. They will propably tell you that you already have the privilege of not paying for your assesment as the cadets have to do.

Starting Salary
 

Hi guys,
sorry if this is wrong place to post this and please redirect as required.

Could anyone give me a very approximate guess at the current Ryanair starting salary for cadets?

I understand that they have recently announced a bonded TR with only a small contribution from the cadet as well as salary sacrifice scheme for the length of the bond?

Does anyone know what the salary is and what the sacrifice is?! Doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere.

Thanks,

This was passed on to me from a classmate of mine and not sure where he got it and how accurate it is. It looks official enough. I have seen the salary figures and other info independently repeated elsewhere on this forum, but of course you can't guarantee they're accurate either, but it looks about right.

Hi !

Thinking about joining Ryanair as DEC non type rated. Do they make You pay the type rating ? And if so, how much ?

no, it is a €15k paper bond, no payment for the type rating

Hi, thanks for the reply. Do You get money deducted monthly or something like that ?

No, there used to be a salary reduction, but not anymore.

Thank You very much for the highly valuable information. Just a last question to fully understand : is there a minimum time this bond is applicable for ? Meaning that should the pilot leave before a certain time he should pay back the 15k ? Thank You very much again.

At moment the contracts are instead of need to register a company in Ireland?

Is this the same for Non TR FO?

Is there any payment or salary reduction... or is it just a bond?

it s a 3 year reducing bond, thanks

delighted to hear you are thinking of joining, it would be within 4 months after passing the assessment

How long approximately from applying online to the assessment?

Can you share some info on the DEC assessment process?

Thanks in advance

Base selection
 

I am looking at spending on an MCC in order to apply for Ryanair as a cadet first officer and I wonder if any of you chaps could help me with a couple of queries:

1. At what point do you find out your allocated base?

2. What are the chances of getting a UK base (strong personal reasons)?

3. Are base transfers easy or hard?

Thank you in advance,

RL

RL
 

If You insist on starting in RYR the best is to take a MCC in CAE AMS, excellent and practically 1/2 a RYR typerating.
Now.
1.The base is assigned AFTER line training complete for a Cadet ALWAYS!
You will not get UK base for personnel reasons! There is umpteen ahead of you. Particularly now as RYR is stockpiling FOs .

2. UK base is popular among Brits , Others avoid it as the plague or simply quit if transferred there,BUT it will depend on RYRs expansion or most likely shrinking the bases if this thing called BREXIT goes south! But lest say a 15% chance!!

3. It is generally hard to get a specific base, and then it may close. Ask EIN BRE RYG etc crew!!
So to that question I can say it is a lengthy project , about as long as a string: Long!
Good luck Son.
You will need it if going down that path.
Regards
Cpt B

and here he is, BluSdUp and his positive comments about FR. You really have nothing better to be doing than talking absolute garbage about FR. They wouldn't be the first airline to open/close bases hence your comments are really irrelevant.

You would think that cadets would be enthusiastic to go anywhere these days however, I am probably wrong.

rogue leader if you are looking to join FR have a look at Sky4U in Berlin for your MCC

Cpt B - Thank you for the information and MCC recommendation. As I thought it seems it will be impossible to know until I'm a little down the line on basing.

aviationfanatic - Thanks for your input and MCC recommendation. I'm enthusiastic about the job, but my wife is a non-EU citizen and with the current Brexit situation it is unclear if she could accompany me, how long for, and what her rights might look like.

Not bashing RYR's policies, just looking to make an informed decision.

RL

AF
Ahhhh Did I hurt your feelings!
The truth My Dear is a tough thing.
RYR is for some pilots OK.
For others, not so much.
With regards to base a bit of a lottery.
By the way CAE AMS is the best MCC! Fact!

RL
 

Welcome to the Club. My better half is Canadien.
Now ,Brexit would be sorted soon we hope. Then find out about You/Her rights.
Just an observation considering the 737MAX may never fly again( not likely BUT)
For sure Airbus will be in demand.
I would tend to lean towards A320 now if I was starting out, a fantastic aircraft BTW.
Not sure the UK demand mind you.
ANYWAY
Lets say EU base is not a problem for UK residents , the question is are You ready for worst case.Kaunas for 3 years?
Keep the Blue Side Up
Always
Cpt B

What truth are you talking about? It takes a lot more than this to hurt my feelings however, I can't stand people talking garbage just for the sake of it!
You are extremely misinformed....

Very important note! A320 for MCC is surely fine.

Salary
 

How much is the salary at ryanair before tax?

The crew
 

Depends on the base - STN/DUB got more 4 sectors than TFS etc (of course). Also my (central european) base has a lot more 2 sector days than 4 sectors...
And last month I flew ~70h, with a duty time of ~120h.

But to be honest this is not standard in an average FR base. My base hits regulary over 100 h block/month AND they still call you to fly on your off days.

Mainland base as well and we nearly JUST do 4 sector days. And it is not 1 hour sectors, daily BVA flights for us giving us already on that around 2:10 - 2:30 block each side. Plus 2 shorter sectors before.



Bigger bases have a bit less flying BUT then the very often pull you out of base which is something that I really hate.

To end up with only 2 sectors you need to be a.) lucky b.) there was no other possibility to give you sector 3 and 4(e.g. all sectors operated by other crews on other airframes which brings us back to a.) ) or c.) you are at a base that does a lot of medium haul sectors(e.g. going down to Teneriffe or Tel Aviv).

Duty period - do the math by yourself. Block hours normally at LEAST around 8. Turn around 25 mins(sometimes, like FCO 30 mins). Do the 100h Block deal a couple of months in a row(which is quiet normal in smaller bases short of pilots) and you are worn out. Money is ok(of course) considering the hours we do. Compared to any other proper airline which is doing MUCH less flying the money earned is suddenly not so much anymore. FR is aiming to put you as close to 900 h as they can.