They take 4.50 euro/sbh off our pay so we don't pay essentially they just pay us less it's a bit of a daft thing because it would cover it up if they said our pay was x amount not x-4.5 for sim??

There you go

Thanks for letting me know Nick.

At least the picture is starting to come together regards these downfalls in Ryanair, there seems to be many.

Pity Emirates don't take old low hrs guys!!!

The latest news from East Midlands Training is that 10 pilots per week are leaving this sewer airline !!

Good riddens O'Leary; D.O.B & P.B oh and lest i forget :mad: Wilson!!

You forgot the "Bases Bulldog" - DR !

:D

How big are the chances of all bases going 5/3 for the summer? I'm on a 5/4 in Spain and it takes me 12 hours each way to travel to Spain and back when I take into account all the buses,trains,planes and hanging around airports I do, if it goes 5/3 I am fubared:( Also when the new government in Ireland takes over and hopefully gets rid of the travel tax and other things that we are hearing about will RYR have any taught of sending aircraft to DUB,ORK and SNN? Also will the Irish crew's finally get home or am I destined to stay in :mad: Madrid for the rest of my time in RYR:ugh:

I reckon ya can forget about Dublin anyway. Too many Irish there already and they don't want too many of the same nationality in the same base. I'd also imagine they might give any snn positions to the guys that were forced to leave there.

I hear ya on the 5/3 though, gonna be some balls if its true...which I'd imagine it is.

I believe a universal 5/3 is a very real possibility for the summer. It would be the first indication of crewing problem in my opinion.

The likes of getting DUB as a base is more problematic for a Captain in my opinion, less so for an FO due to the amount of CUs that have recently occurred. However there is a contingency who are unwilling to upgrade due to the fact that they have lives in Ireland and/or they are on good permanent contracts. Added issue is that the base is shrinking. I don't even believe it can be considered as the second largest base in the company any longer?

The base is majority Irish flight crew - both FOs and Captains. Any Captains that have been transferred there in the last few years, a very limited few I may add, have all been Irish nationals - as have any FOs. There has always been an influx of newbees once every 6 months. All sent there from an allocation list with no thought or consideration whatsoever. But sure, that's how base allocation works in Ryanairland!

If a universal 5/3 comes into play the floodgates WILL open in quite spectacular style...

How will 5/3 work - I was under the impression that FR pilots are often close to the 900hr limit already with 5/4, which is why those on BRK get the enforced month off.

Shrimps,
It is true that some guys get close to the 900 hour mark, but the main reason for the month off is so HMRC don't look upon us as employees and make Brookfield pay our taxes and NI.


Whilst I am under no illusion that anything is possible in Ryanair (apart from a base transfer list := ), I personally don't think they would bring in 5/3 for all bases as it would be a massive change for rostering to create new 5/3 patterns for pilots with existing 5/4.
I can imagine them demanding 6/3 for some summer months from the current 5/4 guys, or less likely, an opportunity for pilots to bid for 6/3 for this period.


Most likely that Rostering will be on the phone a lot of the time asking people to work days off and there will always be someone to work it because most pilots think short term of the extra hours and/or pay, even though its likely for hours to average out in respective bases come April.
(Ryanair have got us thinking each man for himself)


On a side note, has anyone taken a couple of extra months off and still found themselves with 700 hours or so?

you got to love PPRuNe!!

the guys in the know a few weeks back posted a list of the number of pilots leaving each base.,... its been noticeably very quiet on here lately .. I wonder how that list is getting on ....

personally , I am not hearing that many people are actually on the move... well from my base anyhow(mainland europe)

this exodus doesn't appear to be an exodus at all... relatively speaking
when taking into account the numbers of people actually leaving....

to try an see what the big picture actually is, why don't posters detail how many from each base are actually jumping ship...

2600 pilots approx within the airline, well then...
what kinda of level would make management begin to worry??????
e.g 25 Pilots per week would equate to 1300 per annum
(thats 50 %!!!!!)...

what in everyones mind would be the critical number?

Short over 200 captains for the summer. That could be a critical number.

short of 200 Captains, has this figure been verified in some way?

if they are short now, it can only get worse...
does this shortage take into account the ongoing new deliveries?

how many senior FO's are considering command...or thinking of going elsewhere...

being short of 200 captains sure is a major headache,
Senior FO's leaving also would only make it more challenging for RYR management...


can they even get that number of 200 new skippers (Command Upgrade or OCC) through the simulator before the summer....

maybe this 200 shortage is actually 200 and rising....

This forum is a hotbed of rumours, as is nearly every crew room with every airline when it comes to employment, crew shortages, crew culls, and any other topic on any given agenda.

Who is ever going to officially verify that?

But as they say "no smoke..........

It will only be verified come the summer schedule. It will become apparent to every pilot within FR if the arse has fallen out of the company's trousers.

A quick question. How many RYR pilots end up paying IR35, or does the fact that RYR is based in Ireland stuff that up for those robbing ***** at the revenue?

Well I have heard the 200 captains shortage rumour from two sources, one from a guy in EMT and the other from a person in STN offices.

Have to agree 100%, especially that pilots will only think short term and each man for himself. What if most people refuse to work a day off?

:mad: them, Brk pilots dont get any working day off payments so why should we do them a favour, they'll only give another standby on your days on!

Speaking to one Captain who has just bought a separate mobile for work. The moment he finishes his duty he switches it off, and turns it on again when he reports. I think this is a good idea and I will be doing the same. Working days off is a false economy, you are simply plugging the holes by showing good will. If everyone did not answer their phones when off duty the Pilot shortage would become more apparent. This would highlight the fact they need us more than we need them! Don't get me wrong I am all for helping a company if they show good will, however, this lot don't. Goodwill is a two way street.

Dont work your days off!

Both captains i flew with the last two days are leaving and another guy i flew with last week is going aswell - all three mainly because of being based a long way from home. Management have seriously underestimated the effect of their stupid basing "system", alongside all the other BS.

i have to agree with everything that has been said in the last 2 pages or so.

1)if 5/3 comes in then there will be a whole pile of captains leaving,this is the pilots trump card imho,the captains have to stand up and fight or just leave.most of you captains probably have enough hours to go direct entry to Dubai etc anyway

2)demand a waiting list per base:its very easy,just provide some proof of when and where you applied then post it for all to see.

3)the point about getting a 2nd mobile is excellent,everyone should do it.

4)stop working days off for them,they wont do you any favors so why help them?

note that none of this will cost ryanair anything to do,but if they dont then i hope they pay severely!!

Before I realised this I worked a day off last week, a 8:50 block time day so I was happy until they took the same off me the next week and im worse off for having lost a day off and gained nothing.:*

I will never again work a day off as it just does the company a favour and as someone said earlier, it plugs the holes created by resignations.

Management will only change things when they cannot crew aircraft and we are a long way away from that at the moment.

Everyone should refuse to work outside their roster!!

If 5/3 comes then lots of FR captains might want to leave, but by that time the jobs will have been filled by easyJet guys. :E

I myself have done it a couple of times thinking its a few hundred extra €€€ in the back pocket, then roster friday arrives and low and behold my 4 days and a standbys turned into 3 days and 2 standbys! both times :suspect:

A mate of mine in a smaller base was was having the same experience with rostering asking him to work 6 days as they were always short F/O's in the summer and he also kept losing a day to a standby that was originally a flying day.

Why they do this is beyond me, maybe it is down to max hours or something, but if thats the case there really is no point in taking the day as you will just end up with the same hours/money but have a much worse lifestyle because of it

I will not be accepting any days off working for crewing at all now, still don't mind to do a swap for another pilot as this is helping out a college and changes nothing other than a favour which goes both ways if needed and not forgot unlike with rostering.

Thinking about putting this in my signature:

Do not pick up your phone when you are called by a blocked or an Irish number while on OFF days. Crewcontrol rarely or never leaves messages on your voicemail. Chances are if someone else is calling you they will leave a message on your voicemail. You don't really have to worry about people not being able to reach you in this case.

In other news. FO who just recentely upgraded to captain returned to major European base bypassing several people on the "list".

name the base,and people will work out the rest,should be known and brought up at the next declan ryan drive!!

I guess its off to the phone shop for me then.....

Chinese cadets? So they take all the flying hours, the High hour F/Os leave and the low hour guys do very little flying leaving a massive experience gap and this "200 captains short" becomes even worse.

Is it just me or does anyone else think management are trying to run the company into the ground? :confused:

Yep, heard it twice:suspect:

Chinese cadets?

well things are already rocky at the moment for sure,

if they do indeed source First Officers from China, things are really getting out of hand....a full type rating? the bean counters will luv that for sure, more money!!!!!

not wanting to have a go at our chinese counterparts, far from it, however there are important issues here in terms of CRM and advocacy!! after working in Asia for seven years, I can speak from personal experience. Bringing together both 1) the nature of our operation and 2) a first officer who would be reluctant to stand up for themselves , this would be of great concern for many people


when we start hearing of this company grounding aircraft or cancelling flights, with the summer schedule fast approaching,then for sure, we will know exactly how much crap is hitting the fan...

I appreciate what you are saying; anything is possible here. Maybe we can expect a memo.... due to ongoing crewing issues, which are directly attributable to your departing compadres complete and utter inconsideration for the positions of our remaining valued crew members, operational reasons now require us to be able to invade your personal privacy when your not on duty. Ensure your phone is on at all times and that you are available to answer it Best Regards :p :p :p

Been watching this now for 26 pages, but all I can say is that RYR would be very sillyto put in a 5/3 roster in bases that had 5/4 before. It will mean just more people will leave and it will hurt them so much that they will not know where to turn. For myself the 5/3 will be the final push that will send me off somewhere else. And that will be another left seat to fill by EMA. If you are BRK you are hit hard with 5/3, coz it just means you will be doing more standby's and not make a penny more. And away from home you will have average 1,5 day with your family a week. Great job huh!

I am also fed up with the leave system, why this whole month off? If you want it, great. But if you want to spread it in more weeks you cant. Why not? It is just easier for Rostering to do it like this, but it is just rubbish. I know guys who had 18 months between their months off. Safe?

Thats also why I wont accept 5/3 in the summer. You cant really apply for much leave in the summer and then ony 3 days off will make you not see much of the summer or for many pilots also their family.

The last ten years the RYR pilots didnt get much extra at all, inflation, etc. compensated for the few % extra the pilots got. Everything else just deteriorated as well.

I think a lot of people are waiting for the next bad move from RYR and they will leave. PB is welcome in our base. When he comes to bring the 5/3 news I can hand in my resignation straight away to him. Quite handy. :) Plenty of jobs out there and how much worse can they be? Not.

Anyway, these were just my thoughts. Keep tunnelling guys!

Chinese cadets, best rumour ever.
Here's a rumour for you, 90% of people resigning are FOs which is going to have almost ZERO inpact in FR. Start getting 100 captains resigning then we will see. As Public Enemy once said "Don't beleive the hype"

Dont believe the hype?!????????

first of all you can disregard this chinese cadet crap!

Look, ryr are becomeing one of the most insecure companies/airlines!
1.Oil is at a 30 month high!
2.10 pilots are leaving or commencing notice periods or simply leaving every week
3.there's been no pay rise in the past 10 years,
4. there is no future for ryr as long as MOL is at the helm because in the real airline world where staff are respected, his business model has lilttle foundation
5.this exodus would have happened years ago were it not for the downturn in the airline industry which gave ryr/MOL the upper hand with Boeing, pilots, cabin crew, engineers, airports, etc..NOT ANY MORE!

Where's the future for a company who's staff have zero loyalty and respect for a boss/management system which holds them is such distain and disregard across all bases from Dublin to Trapani and every other one in between?!!
Pay cuts, abolition of benefits - even forcin you to move base and take up to a 40% pay cut in the process!
A completely ludacris non-transparent basing system
pay cuts at will
a roster and annual leave system which is put into place simply because it cuts down in f**kin man-hours for the rostering dept!
Cabin crew on less then the minimum wage!!!
Fathers and mothers forced to work away from home leaving loved ones behind and no hope of ever getting back due to the blatant disregard of MOL and his crony henchmen!

The list is endless...those of us in RYR can see this pain that pilots have to endure....The rate of attrition is getting more exponential by the week!

In the Leeds base during the week a flight was delayed for a number of hours due to lack of flight crew - no stbys even!. A crew from another base had to fly there to avoid a total cancellation!

How do you come to that conclusion? B738's require two Pilots? :confused:

Because finding 200hr cadets to fill the RHS and take the crap MOL dishes out isn't a problem. There seems to be an endless queue. Experienced captains willing to join FR I would imagine are not so easy to find.

Ok fair point. However, if the industry is picking up like the signs are starting to show, it will be interesting to see if these people will still be queing at FR's door and sign up for these very poor t's and c's. If there are more options on offer that are considerably better than FR's "deal" then they may find their supply a bit short. I certainly hope that does happen, it will teach them a lesson!

ok,about time someone started a new thread for this topic,but no bull !!!!e,no bashing
just pure and simple idea's to get back at them or at very least get even.

seems like there are a lot of pissed off people over there,so about time you did something about it.:ugh::ugh:

idea's already mentioned,
1)demand base roster
2)refuse to work days off
3)2nd mobile for duty time
4)better leave facility
5)brookfield pilots to pat there taxes where they wish,not just in Ireland (although any donations are greatly accepted these days!!).

just a thought!!

Would that make it a chinese take-away?

Very good :D

Never heard of the Chinese Cadet scheme. But I'll be sure to poll around on my next shift to see if anyone has any more information on this.

Horsepowerr: From what I understand the whole month off is there to avoid UK labour legislation. On paper you are a contractor hired by Brookfield. If they hire you for 12 months in the year you are technically a full-time employee and that would entail more costs for Brookfield. The reason I'm not entirely sure is because in recent BRK contracts I've read that the pilot is not allowed to work for another outfit during the course of the BRK contract. I don't see how that fits into the whole "self-employed" image.

I had a chance to take a look at the base roster recently. All commanders are maxing out but to my surprise, FO's are not far behind. More often than not I saw 5 flying days without standby. This is remarkable considering we're February.