It's about RYANAIR pilots thinking to leave for greener pastures!

Perhaps you should read the title one more time: "Ryanair exodus, what's the plan?"

You guys talk too much! Get into reading! ;)

Ok then! ;)

Bokkenrijder,

two things are for sure:
1- you don't like EK
2- you don't know FR

There are quite a few former FR guys already flying in the sandpit and those are the best ones to talk to.
Stats are also pretty much in favor of EK with tens of guys going their way and just a handful coming this way (DEC who then become base captains in the place of choice...:E:E).

Future prospects are also an issue here:
-FR will receive its last 50 aircraft in the next 2 years and then there's no more expansion planned.
-EK will almost double its size in the next 5 years.

Prostitutes know their chickens.....

Well, let's see;

1) Here's a quote from the EK thread, from a guy who actually flies there: EK basically makes FR look like a summer camp! :cool:

2) Here's a quote from yourself: I do know FR, and FR is also on the list of companies that I would never fly for! :)

Anyway, do whatever you want, you claim to know it all. Selling your @ss, errr soul to MOL wasn't the smartest thing to begin with, and doing it all again in Dubai is a sign that you haven't leaned a thing.

I see your predicament however. By making a pact with MOL and helping FR to become a success you've dragged down T&C's in Europe, and you lack the backbone to fight for good T&C's yourself. There is no way out, no major EU carrier will take you, so the only escape you see is by fleeing to the Middle East. You folks have boxed yourself into a corner. Checkmate! :ugh:

Don't say I didn't warn you! ;)

So let me guess: the EK expansion is limitless? The sky is the limit in DXB? I'm sure FR a few years ago perhaps also said they would double their fleet.

So does a big fleet and a rapid expansion automatically mean good T&C's? Answer: just look at the FR fleet and their massive expansion over the last decade! Frying pan --> fire! ;)

The dumbness in your logic is absolutely mind boggling! How you ever passed a psychological IQ test is beyond me. No wonder T&C's in FR are so bad... :zzz:

I take it you failed day 1 of selection.......:hmm:

Or perhaps there are some who are fleeing the over taxed and overpriced place that is now Euroland?

In any case Bokkenrijder, you are either talking out of a place that doesn't see the light of day that often, or you are pushing your own personal agenda (heaven forbid..on PPrune???)

The usual protagonists jump up and down (moan) about EK, and yes there are all the challenges they speak of, plus a few more besides...however the extent and severity are typically overstated and misrepresented, as are the multitude of other little things that can p1ss one off living in this part of the world.
Guess what, I quite like it here, I have a lovely villa, my wife enjoys a damn sight better quality of life than she did back in europe, she drives a big big SUV that the locals avoid TYVM as even allah wont make them invunerable:}, and best of all, I dont even have to worry about driving to work.
I've worked for 2 carriers in the EU region, one of which you can guess who...and despite working bloody hard at times..when you swim with the tide, this place is the easiest flying job in the world.
Its ok Bokkenrijder, you vent some steam old son, meanwhile I'll take my 20 pieces of silver, my EPC discounts and various other little incentives...I'll listen to the management BS....say thanks very much, and go home and sit by the pool:ok:

I should also add that according to my sources in HR, the recruitment drive is the Ryanair/Easyjet show at the moment.

No, but it's always sad to see people using this line in order to diffuse criticism. I take it you failed the BA selection then because you ended up in EK.....? :hmm:

When I left Easy I decided to not take any half measures and I am now working for one of the major airlines in Europe. (I say this not to boast, just to illustrate that I did not want to end up from the frying pan into the fire).

I have no particular axe to grind regarding EK, except that I strongly recommend against it following what I've seen during my layovers in the Middle East.

Anyway, have fun in EK and DXB!

Nope, never even applied...I worked for another operator, the one with a big V on the tail :ok:

Jeez Bokkenrijder you really are Captain Self Righteous! People like you give me a sore head. One minute you are telling all us lo-co boys and girls that we are spineless sell outs and those of us who dare try something different are cowards who aren't prepared to stick around and improve our lot! Is that what you did when you left Ezy for your top European airline then? And don't retract and say you left for a fantastic lifestyle and hard fought terms and conditions. And even if you did, you probably did little to achieve them - you inherited them!

To be quite honest you know nothing about FR. It amounts to what you perceive. The same way that you perceive EK is a nasty little outfit which comes no where near your ivory tower legacy carrier. Just because you talk to a few crew members down route doesn't give you the whole picture. I too have heard that it isn't all what it is cracked up to be, however; like Monarch Man, I have met many who are extremely content. Same with guys in both Ryanair and EasyJet. However because you believe it to be crap, then its crap; and that's it! I think it is a noble trait to sometimes show an open mind. Maybe showing an objective opinion, rather than berating everyone with your holier
than thou speech might be more helpful.

Remember that the industry that we work in is extremely fickle. It's wonderful bragging that you will take your moral high ground by exclaiming that you will never work for the likes of FR or EK. I know quite a number who have said exactly the same thing. Guess what happened.....

Back to the thread if you please.. instead of bitching and throwing Handbags at each other.

Like spineless fools looking for a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow, they leave and prostitute themselves to the next slave/camel driver for a couple of pennies extra, instead of staying and improving their current situation.

It's pretty obvious which way those psychological airline entry tests are biased when it comes to "fight of flight" questions!

That's a bit rich Bokkenrijder considering you threw your toys out the pram and left easyJet for what was it, Virgin Nigeria?

Like many others I too am keen to apply for EK from FR.

I'm currently just shy of the required hours but very shortly will be there.

What do you guys think will happen to DEC requirements at EK for the upcoming new decade? I hear stories of guys waiting a long time for upgrades over there, but obviously with new aircraft hopefully some will make the jump over to the LHS.

One thing that sits in my mind though is, generally speaking; Ryanair does get a lot of negative press here on Pprune, but there are quite a few to back it up. But EK on the other hand there are far a few between any people willing to defend it. Is that a blatant warning sign?!

Back to the thread I suppose!

I just wish my roster would pick up....too many times flights are given away to low hour FOs which doesn't make too much sense given the Training guys are always saying how short they are of CU's...surely it's time to push the guys closer to the upgrade process than let all the other guys take all the long days...maybe just me!

Bokkenrijder

that is the most hypocritical self righteous rubbish i've ever read on here.

why do some people have to act like its a religion to them? i just go to work to earn money. one day i'll do the secure checklist for the last time and do something else. just because the middle east aint for you old son, others might fancy it. personally its not for me, i think it gets less attractive the older you get, but if you were in your mid twenties, it could be a bit of an adventure for a few years.. why not?

we all know that ryan isnt a job for life, so stop banging on about it and acting holier than thou, you just do it to get into the industry or to get jet experience or get an upgrade fast or because your last airline went bust and you needed to feed the wife and kids.

Oh how so true:{, how true that is!!

Have fun ladies:
 

YouTube - How to Cope With a Pilot Shortage 1
YouTube - How to Cope With a Pilot Shortage 2
YouTube - How to Cope With a Pilot Shortage 3
YouTube - How to Cope With a Pilot Shortage 4
YouTube - How to Cope With a Pilot Shortage 5
YouTube - How to cope with a pilot shortage 6


YouTube - Our Darkest Hour episode 1.m4v
YouTube - Our Darkest Hour episode 2.m4v
YouTube - Our Darkest Hour episode 3.m4v
YouTube - Our Darkest Hour episode 4.m4v
YouTube - Our Darkest Hour episode 5

Here's the thread where you can read all the comments and don't forget to look at the "location" field of the posters!

Wow, so FR must be even worse if someone wants to work for such an outfit?! Well, enjoy those BBQ's! :eek:

As for Sabena, no I never worked for them as I was in flight training when they went bankrupt. However, I'm working for a very reputable airline just over the border! Salut! ;)

100 percent self righteous clown.

I think Shadowsonclouds is onto something here:Yes it is Shadowsonclouds! Rather than most of your stupid colleagues, it's refreshing to see that some people can still engage in some critical thinking in Ryanair! :ok:

If some people 'tink' that I'm a clown for pointing out an inconvenient truth, fair enough, but all those people posting on the Middle Eastern forum and EK threads can't all be 100 percent self righteous clowns, now can they? ;)

Callsign Kilo hit the nail on the head. You know nothing about FR.

Stop talking absolute crap.

Or just tell me then what I am taking per year(FO) on average with FR?

Tell me about my roster?

Tell me about the really good and very capable people I work with?

Tell me the REAL downsides? ( There are some as with every company)

Not just drivel that you concocted from your high stool in between sucking on your daily ration of Cow and Gate.

At the end of the day Emirates is not a bad company to work for! The million dollar question is can you cope with moving and living abroad? The catch twenty two here is that unless you have done it previously, then it is somewhat difficult to provide an answer prior to moving!

It is pointless having a dig at those Ryanair pilots who choose to move to Emirates. Moving to emirates is very much a personal decision since there are far more issues out of work, that one needs to consider prior to moving!

go-around flaps 15, if it's so wunderbar in FR why then are people planning an exodus? ;)

My only point is that EK in particular or the Middle East in general is not a very realistic alternative for people who want to improve their life. Either improve life in FR (next to impossible due to union-busting fence sitters like yourself!), move to a good European company or perhaps consider a company like Cathay Pacific for those wanting an ex-pat experience.
BTW, despite the image they want to put on, EK is no CX, not by a loooong shot!

Here's what a FR colleague of yours wrote. These are his words, not mine:In all fairness, FR and U2 are not the worst low-cost companies to work for (when compared to Wizzair, Vueling etc) so it's best to stay put before selling the house, the car moving the family for a similar job/company in Dubai where you have even less workers rights than in that 'frecking' Irish outfit!

Have a look at those Youtube links that I posted earlier! Again, those are not my words, but this is the sentiment in EK. You'll always have some unhappy people in every company, whether it's BA, KLM, AF, LH etc, but when there are so many unhappy people posting on PPRuNe there must be something seriously wrong!

BTW, it's not my intention to slagg off FR! If someone is happy doing short haul low-cost working for MOL then nobody is putting a gun to their head to move to the desert. However, for those that are not happy doing 4 sector days until retirement (like I once was in Easy!) I would not recommend moving to Dubai or the Middle East.
The job, the fatigue, the company mentality are just too similar, it's just a bigger jet. :=

Bokkenrijder,

you talk about FR quoting my words 'cause you don't really know FR, then you talk about EK quoting what they say in the middle east forum 'cause again you don't have any first hand info.
You said you now work in a EU legacy carrier coming from Easyjet, you surely joined as an F/O at the bottom of the seniority with many years before upgrade awaiting you.

Well I happen to know personally a few guys in EK who joined about 4/5 years ago and all apart from 1 are Captains now; none of them says it's the best job on earth but they all agree that it's far better than FR, and 2 of them are former FR pilots.
The other day I was jumpseating and the guy up front was a DEC coming from a EU legacy carrier that went bust, he said quite a few of his former colleagues went to EK even accepting a right hand seat and that they are all quite happy.
He had also applied but didn't pass the psycho tests:E:E

You are funny, my antelope-riding friend. You're like the media who make up a story and then quote their own allegations as evidence that the story has credence. It's already been shown that there is little or no truth in the rumour of a 'mass exodus'...

As for life in FR, in the short time I've been with the company I've met plenty of pilots who have been there for 10+ years. That doesn't prove anything. For some people, the old saying 'better the devil you know' is less a metaphor and more an uncomfortable reality. That said, you can earn a decent living, flying interesting routes, with FR. I really don't see the issue with 4 sector days? The rest of the world works 8 hour days. It certainly doesn't bother me.

If you see flying as a well paid sinecure and not a job, I cannot relate to your point of view. For some people a job with EK in the Middle East might be an attractive option. It sounds like it's not all bad news.

Fresh off the press, everyone is leaving ryanair for EK and the operation is shutting down!

Honestly, some of the garbage you lot argue about on here is just insane, a LOT of airlines are losing pilots to EK, its always been the case,its just more so now that they lowered their minimum entry requirements... you will get FR pilots complaining about FR, you will get EK pilots complaining about EK, human beings always complain :ok:

They don't seem to believe you old chap, or have just quite simple had enough of there treatment at the hands of cost cutting king for the resignations are beginning to climb. And word has it that there is now going to be a "reasons to stay at ryanair" roadshow, with free cups of coffee etc being used to entice people to stay. :cool: that-ort-a do it>:ugh:

Consider this: european FR pilot working 900hrs a year and making as a captain what an F/O makes in EK, without pension, without loss of licence,without healthcare, based 2/3 hours flight time away from home (maybe in an eastern european Baltic base or at the far south bottom of Europe),without tickets for his family, having to pay for uniform/ID/medicals/SIMS/hotels, forced to accept paycuts in case he gets the base of choice, forced to accept paycuts in case he upgrades to the left seat and other very civilized and democratic practices...



and some people are proud of that....:yuk:

low cost .... :D:

EK pilots also work hard, max hours, max duties, minimum rest. Same !!!! I would say.

Hey superced - the voice of understanding, balanced opinion and reason!

Your argument is EXACTLY the way it happens. EXACTLY :ugh:

Didn't you once apply to EasyJet?

I've been working for easyJet for the last two years....

Lucky them

yes I think so.....:ugh:

doh :O

CK, that was a rubbish reply

As is so often the case, the first casualty of war is truth. All discussions about Ryanair are so emotive, not least because some people have no idea of how to conduct themselves in a debate. I am particularly entertained by 'go around flaps 15' who has invited all those with 'real' knowledge of Ryanair to tell him his monthly pay, roster, inside leg measurement etc. Presumably his fellow contributors are not clairvoyant and therefore, in common with 99% of his colleagues who actually work at Ryanair, do not have ready access to that information either.

As a long-term easyJet pilot with more than a passing interest in Ryanair, I think that many people, both in and out of the much-derided Irish emporium, have missed the point in this discussion. The key issue for both easyJet and Ryanair piots is that, due to their sheer size, it is no longer possible for all the disaffected to leave and go elsewhere. Both companies employ around 2000 pilots (no doubt others will grace us with more precise figures) and it is just not possible for that many pilots to go elsewhere. Therefore it is vital that pilots within both companies decide to fight for their futures where they are, rather than dream their lives away into Emirates or Etihad. The only credible way to do that is with union backing. Ryanair pilots decided to go it alone without BALPA - many are mightily proud they did so. Therefore they must face the inevitable consequences of that choice, but at easyJet we are still on the field of battle despite our widely-publicised operational issues. As one happily committed to living out his professional career in the low-cost sector, I intend to fight tooth and nail to ensure that the success of companies such as my own is shared by all rather than just a few. The reality for many low-cost pilots is that this is where they too will live out their professional careers. They would be well-advised to join a union and fight for their futures where they are, rather than just fight for a way out the door.

Glad you found it amusing Norman. Like most of your posts and indeed your beloved union, about as useful as an ashtry on a motorbike.

Never agreed with much you had to say to be honest.


As always though in this beautiful world one of the most basic rights is the right to an opinion.

And I will afford you the respect you deserve for voicing your opinion. And on some of the points you made towards the end of your previous post all I have to say is this.


If only everything was that simple Norman.

At least he can spell ......

So can I. I saw the error in my ways.

I saw the error in my ways;

Or perhaps;

I saw the error of my ways?

But only 1 sector to prepare and fly which I think would make a huge difference.

I don't know, six sectors go pretty quickly! There's nothing quite like a 250/25 gusting 35 at somewhere like Leeds to envigorate the senses!! You can keep your DXB-LAX ultra long haul operations!!! :E However I wish all my ex colleagues well in their pursuit of Arabian happiness. Best of luck.

Ek is the better job for sure.
The question you have to ask yourself is, will your wife be happy in Dubai. It's allright for us because we would get out of that place on a regular bases.
For those who are single it's an easy choice. :ok:

"For those who are single it's an easy choice."

But be careful, so much as smile at a bit of skirt and its the clink for you both ! Unless you're married to the forementioned skirt.