4 Captains left at my base in the last few months, quite a few senior F/O's have interviews lined up as we speak (I know one who is undergoing his command upgrade and studying for the EK interview at the same time) and there are quite a few people that I heard of leaving from other bases too.
Phonecalls from crewcontrol asking people to work on days off are more and more common.

jester42,
begging for higher levels and for shortcuts does not define a professional pilot.
Receiving a letter from management stating that you are at the bottom of the fuel league and that you should review the company SOP's does not define a professional airline.

For a long time there has been rumours of guys moving which i failed to see. However now it seems that the first few have left everyone else is waking up. I didnt believe an exodus would start, just a few small irrelavant moves.But this week alone I have seen first hand the exodus really beginning to kick off.

Seems the few DUB FO on the move have 2500+ hours, these are the guys leaving that are going to wake Ryr up.They need every guy for command upgrade they can get in the next 24 months. I know of several guys personally who have A.L, B.A and emirates interviews in the next month.

Had one Captain jumpseat this week, 6 months he has been a Captain and is off now to a cargo company.After 5 years in the company all he got from mangement was "where are you going?" ... followed by "ok grand."
This indicates Ryr are not aware of the number who are gearing up for a move, or that they are ready for it. With aircraft arriving in 2s and 3s from Seattle, Captains going east and senior FO saying no thanks to upgrade courses I can't see how they are ready!(unless they plan on DEC again, and who would go to them when there appears to be options now).

Base system
 

Its called divide and conquer!!

Its a bit hard to conjure up ideas of industrial action when we are all scattered around the far corners of Europe on different patterns / shifts.

I think this tactic has been successfully deployed for many years now!

Proof of one more Capt. leaving (bottom of article)...

An off-duty airline pilot drunkenly smashed a sports car into a brick wall at speed, a court heard.

Good job he did it in the UK, in Dubai he would be in serious sheet man!

:eek:

He was the ex base captain of BDS AND REU.

WOW

Lear,

Perhaps you would be graceful to a curious request from me, and explain the significance of "WOW" in your post?

Ryanair command minima 2000 hours
 

Purely heresay and speculation, but I hear that RYR are considering lowering the command minima to 2000 P1 to try and retain crew.

I'm not sure what you mean 2000 hrs PIC for command minima to retain crew. I presume you're talking about FO's upgrading, and if so, none of us have 2000 hrs PIC- seeing as though most joined as cadets with 100 hrs PIC from CPL days. PIC is the captain, so I have the same PIC now as I did when I joined (bar a few c150 hrs).

Re 737 Jockey's comment and the link provided I found this funny on that report...

He was sentenced to a 12-month jail sentence, suspended for one year, and was ordered to do 100 hours of unpaid work.

RYR must love that. Is that 100 hrs duty or 100 hrs block he must do for free?? :E

Haha that last line had me laughing VJW! :)

I would imagine he means 2000 hours jet? I wouldn't pay too much attention to such gossip. The entire CU training program revolves around the cadet doing at least 3000 hours. At this point the pass/fail ratio is just about 50%. Lowering the hours requirement to 2000 hours would make that ratio drop I figure.

Hitting them helps
 

Many years ago a Major Airline decided to unilaterally change the T's & C's of the pilot body.

The pilot body had a weak union at the time and after some negotiations, the pilots were sent on their merry way and told to do their job and stop complaining. The majority of the pilots took it upon themselves to make a stand and decided to begin an "unofficial protest". All flights for a month flew full letdowns (this was a while back - not like todays controlled airspace), did not ask for shorter routings and did not make any effort to rush the operation along. On time departures dropped, the fuel bill rocketed and schedules were disrupted as Captains refused to use "Captains Discretion".

After that one month of action, the Airline management backed down and re-instated the original T's & C's. From that day on, the pilots held the power and subsequently have grown into a powerful force in the airline. It is now one of the best paid airlines in the world with fair yet productive work schedules.

Each airline is different but the point I am trying to make is this :

The power lies with the Captains (I am not one so not trying to degrade the importance of the F/O) - they control the efficiency of the entire airline operation and with their effort, you could start to chip away at the block and start making a difference.

New numbers being churned out by the gossip mill today.

Approximate demand for captains for the next flying year April 2011 - April 2012 is 400. Queued CU's supposed to be nearly 180. Currently empty slots supposed to be nearly 220.

Those were the latest numbers I picked up from colleagues. Not sure where they come from or if they're anywhere near accurate though.

I had been given a figure of 275 shortage of captains for the summer, but other jungle drums have all had figures above 200...... either way its a shortage.

Don't you read the newspapers? We are not allowed to say "jungle drums" any more in our so-called free speech society.

Hitting them helps.
 

Hmm. Problem I have with the whole "civil disobedience" thing is that we are all, above all commercial pilots, professional pilots, all that stuff.
I can't be the only one who gets more of a buzz out of closing the throttles (sorrry FTLs) at 120 miles, and opening them up, on the bug at 500', than dragging it in, thinking "this will stick it to them".
It would just be nice to have that recognised now and again, not just by the fuel league bollox ( sponsored by Tippex? ).
The management of so many companies should realise the gift they receive via dedicated workers, and I include CC, engineers, dispatchers etc. and stop regarding us as a necessary inconvenience come payday.
Back to thread: where are 200 (or 240, or 275) captains going to appear from by june, fuf hucks sake!! Most of the CU candidates at my base are saying they aren't interested, if it means a bond, a paycut, 5/3, and living on a desert island.
Liking the community service thing. Takes some nerve to give a skyline maximum beans with a skinful. Hope it wasn't a GTR. That rattling noise wasn't just the dry clutch, then....

Taking Senior FOs in again
 

Answer could be taking senior FO from outside, ex or other company's, ready for command in 3 months. That was done years back.
Could be...

Could be.
That may not be entirely a bad thing, as a reasonable contract would need to be offered to tempt poeple away from the desert, plus it would break the chain of F/O-alike cadets only chasing a fast track, plus it would show some flexibility and pilot market responsiveness (is that a word?), and open up the market for eperienced SFOs.
On the other hand it would be a blow to the experienced SFOs holding out for a better deal.
There aren't any magic answers, as the flamers have shown when they criticise, but not constructively...

As i said in an earlier post, have heard management at RYR are getting seriously worried now by the numbers believed to be looking to jump elsewhere - looks like chaos looming - but much better news for pilots everywhere as a rapid change of offerings will be on the cards. Looks like RYR management are about to feel the wrath.

They need to change a policy...they are expert in that!

16024,

Yes it would. While your suggestion that new guys will drive up T&C's is to be applauded, any better terms will not be implemented across the board. Look at the new cadets who come via brookfield at the moment, on less salary.

Bringing in DE pilots is what blocks the bases people want. I was told of a very plausible story of a guy from a UK base that got his command and was sent away to MAD or somewhere, even though there was a vacancy at his home base. The reason he didn't get it was cited as "Well, sorry, but it's been promised to a DEC coming from bmibaby".

When Ryanair has a more transparent basing policy and a list we can SEE that shows when we might get what base we want, i'm sure FO's will start to raise their hands to command again. As it stands, a ballpark figure of 2 years to get back to your family while you toil on 5/3 on the other side of Europe is not really good enough from an operator that has over 250 aircraft.

like what is RYR used to say on it´s airplane:
 

"bye bye RYANAIR ..." :D:D:D:D

well, will greedy management learn of this exodus?
Long term it doesn´t pay off, if you treat your own
staff miserable, it is only going to be expensive later.

Managers, show your staff respect and pay the what
the positions is worth.

At the end you will be doing yourself a favor.

RYR Pilots: show dignity and fight for better conditions!


:ok:

heard today that as many as 17 guys resigned in one day recently, 5 guys ex dub now in faro had a meeting with PB regarding getting back onto 5/4 so they could get at least some time back in dublin with there families, "no sorry its not possible" was the reply, 5 guys then handed him letters of resignation, followed by PB giving the usual dribble about not being so hasty and we'll look into it for you etc, they told him that it's to late and we can't trust you. :) On average now 10 pilots resigning a week. 200 captains short for the summer........

Will he realize he needs some help from some externals or will maybe give more to who is inside?
D

3 captains down
 

I was speaking to a friend who is based in a small UK base and 3 captains have resigned (working their notice until April). I know another captain from the base who left for somewhere hotter and sandier before christmas.

But I doubt it will effect management as they dont give a F**K and besides that they are to arrogant to admit they need us.

Omar, agreed they may well be arrogant but unless they adapt that behaviour for a less confrontational one, they will find themselves severly undercrewed and having to cancel flights which regardless of determined arrogance, will eventually lead to huge losses - MOL will have to sit up and listen then regardless - his days are now numbered.

It just doesn't add up does it... Business management will usually attempt anything to ensure a company runs efficiently and has an edge over the competition yet ryanair are haemorrhaging pilots (if what's written here is correct) and they seam determined not to do anything about it?! Why? Would they cut off their noses to spite their face?

They are about to run out of 737's too same attitude toward Boeing....

Easyjet and Flybe seam to be following suit with their crews....

Maybe the truth is Loco simply doesn't work without expansion based on cheap aircraft and pilots. One things for certain the days of cheap aircraft are long gone. Boeing won't make that mistake again.

Agreed, it doesn't add up but the management won't publicly (i.e. within company at any rate) admit that their collective attitude toward the travelling public, regulatory bodies and staff is at odds with the way things will develop over the coming months and years. As for in private, behind closed doors, they already will have been discussing the current situation regarding pilot resignations and you can be assured whilst their public stance is still the way it always has been, measures are being discussed as to how they can overcome the losses in order to mitigate any problems in the short and long-term.

Mr Horgy.
Well that's the beauty of joined-up debate. But whatever the pros and cons of direct entry captains vs direct entry FOs (and for what it's worth I think there's room for both), the point is there are just not enough cadets coming through to make the numbers work. Not by this summer, anyway.
And yes, the basing policy sometimes sucks, but this could be made more easily understood and more transparent at no cost AT ALL to the company. As for 5/3. Why? It earns the company no money, especially in the summer when pilots are maxed out. Let's get the NO COST solutions sorted at least.

I am always surprised by those who keep on trying to understand the base policy. The policy is clear: to piss off the maximum people. This is the culture; and, as written somewhere above, it pays because when you are desperately waiting for a base transfer to save your couple and your family, you will not start arguing with rostering when they ask you to fly an off day.
Of course, RYR will take corrective actions. But they will rather ground planes and loose hundreds of thousands €/£ than let see that crew pressure could make them change. Because if we could see history and evidence that if we unite we can win, it would just mean the end of the RYR model as it exists today.
The corrective actions have started. Some of these desperate guys just got calls from PB and were finally offered their home base. I wouldn't be surprised if we see massive base transfers in the next weeks.
You can say anything about RYR but not that they improvise or get trapped. Trainig 15, 20 or 30 captains a week is still possible. There will be disruption in the summer. Like every year. And they will finally make it.
Yes pessimistic analysis. Unless we take advantage of the situation.
We need 90% membership to IALPA and go into negiciation. EZY and many more did it.
Theire arrogance is ruining our lifes, our families, our passion and our health. Just to show their power and to get more money. That's enough.
Time to do something.
Millions of poor people much more exposed than us managed to free their country.
Cheers.

Was it a mistake? Or a hedging of bets, post 9/11? I don't think you're giving Boeing enough credit - they've been in this game longer than O'Leary. In two decades time, i've more confidence in the name 'Boeing' still being around than i do for FR.

If they gave them a nice deal, its because they needed to. Airliner production lines and skilled people cant be turned on and off like a tap. Smoothing out the peaks and troughs in demand comes at a price, but thats the price of staying in business during the bad times.

Contrast this with O'Leary's fuel price hedging... :O
He's a cost-cutting one trick pony, not a business genius. I admire what he's been able to pull off, in a way, and some good things have come out of it for sure, but i don't think its ultimately sustainable and i don't think FR will be looked back on fondly in the future. Unlike the achievements of Boeing.

I'm not sure they're desperate at all.

There'll always be a desperado in the ranks to suck up the Command somewhere.

Or, is there no-one left to promote?

Someone posted that RYR's final tally will now be 299a/c. A couple of years ago I'd heard 345 a/c and then 325 a/c. What is true, and is this downsizing anything to do with crewing? Are RYR in fact being able to sell any older a/c? If they ordered 345 in total where are they going if not RYR?
Also heard a fact new to me; Wizzair has the same investor as RYR and there is a gentleman's agreement not to tread on each others toes. Might explain why no RYR bases east of Berlin. Wizz have a a good few a/c on order; airbuses. Thoughts are there might be some merging in the future. Any insiders with knowledge?

Warpspeed you are right, I agree.

What I meant was Boeing won't make the mistake of selling MOL cheap airframes to have it rubbed in their face and gloated about in public.

Three organisations make the money in aviation: The big aircraft manufacturers, the airports and the Tax man.

RAT 5:

According to http://jethros.eu/fleets/fleet_listings/ryanair.htm
Ryanair have 263 aircraft in service, 52 on order for 2011 and 2012 and a further 173 options up to 2014.

Regular updates on Jethros shows that at the same time that new aircraft are delivered to Dublin from Boeing, Ryanair withdraw aircraft from use. Without mention of how they dispose of the aircraft. Although if you go to http://www.planespotters.net/Airline/index.html you will find where the historical fleet has been disposed of, which is mostly to other airlines, mostly via leasing companies+some write offs.

Without the advantage of any inside knowledge, the developing picture seems to indicate that the market for Ryanair has almost reached maturity. Any future development in new routes may require some very imaginative marketing, which may not provide the required profits nor the "advertising contributions" to make these new ventures worthwhile.

The word from PB last time he visited was a total of 299 in service when the last delivery takes place in 2012. We were supposed to have 300 but the Ciampino accident claimed one airframe. There is no downsizing, as a new aircraft arrives an old one is sold or it is added to the total.

I don't think there will be anymore, it's just not possible to get them at such a cheap price anymore and Europe isn't that big. Il wait and see what comes of it.

So do you guys think there will be a slow down in new hiring at Ryanair anytime soon? Or will the cadet churning machine keep going for a while? What do you think?

Brookfield pilots already pay for recurrent training

16024,

I agree. From the sidelines, I can't imagine how a workforce made up from cadets, AND experienced guys could ever be viewed as anything other than a good thing. You are also correct with what you say regarding crewing figures for summer.

THERE WILL NOT BE ENOUGH CREWS. How this situation has come about is up to individual interpretation, but a large part I would wager has been on the fact people don't have options. With BA, and Emirates starting to suck up experienced guys, FO's (and to a lesser extent, CPT) are now fed up enough to leave. Most, if not all of the FO's I know are not exactly excited by the idea of command, purely because of the upheaval and the imposition of 5/3.

I'm looking forward to 5/3 coming to TFS, ACE and LPA and the associated crewing issues they have with people having a N/A each week. Although then people go onto 4/4 and that might be even better.

Horgy

i have to agree wit you,2500 hr guys dont want upgrade which is causing headaches to PB and JD ETC and fair play to them for not being pushed into it.its gonna be funny when they try enforce the 5/3 roster(in most bases) again for the summer!!a great way to push even more guys out the door!!

any idea of how many guys/girls are in a base where they dont want to be?that would be the 1st thing they should sort out IMHO.

For info the TFS/LPA/ACE bases are not going 5/3.

I said no to one of these (the one I didn't apply to), they called me back few weeks later saying its staying 5/4 and no change to my current contract.....

Still said no - just in case!

@ FlyboyUK

How much do the Brookfield guys pay for recurrent? (How much how often etc - I need to know!)
Thanks
F_T