The cost is an issue to me because I've spent most of the past 4 months on almost permanent standby wondering how Im going to pay the mortgage. With a Scottish Disclosure fee on top of the ID itself it works out to be £50. Even offsetting it against tax its still going to cost you £30 for an ID that isn't going to be accepted anywhere other than Southern Spain.

Mikehotel,
I think the problem lies in the second sentence of the letter - "contractual obligation". In other words, if you can't operate out of base X, Y or Z when rostered then you'll be in breach of your contract.
Now they could afford to bin a couple of FOs from BRK to encourage the others, but could they bin everybody?

If you read the read on screwdock then it states that if you are moving to be based at one of the selected bases, therefore would that include if you are working the odd week from there? I really don't want to bend down and pull my trousers down to pay for yet another ID!!

It's the bloody cheek of it that gets to me. What next? It wouldn't cost them a great deal to sort it out if they need to, it's only to cover up for people leaving!!

Take a stand!

This is just another money maker for them. Imagine around 1500 pilots pay around 30£ each to a company which is owned by Ryanair (not talking about all the cabin crew which are based in Spanish bases and need one of these useless plastic cards as well). It should be clear if they want you to have a company ID than they should give you one and if you cannot operate without one it's more their problem than ours.....

I have already voted with my feet so if they take me off the roster at least I can spend some quality time with my family instead of dragging myself to work for another 3 months....

I cannot believe that I'm reading that people are only considering not paying for these I.D's, to say that RYR are taking the proverbial is somewhat of an understatement.

Everytime I read RYR threads on here, I get more and more depressed.

If you lot don't sort yourselves out, then you should hang your heads in shame for being the most spineless and easily manipulated bunch of slaves since the last lot of people that built pyramids...

Seriously, paying for I.D's... WTF? :ugh: How is that even a point for discussion?

People who built the Pyramids were not slaves, they were well looked after workers, unlike Ryanair Pilots:)

Active discussion going on about this on REPA. I advise all BRK pilots to sign in or create an account to voice their opinion.

Why are some of you guys so pushy on the REPA website etc?
great idea, one issue- will management speak with you? no?
Also I believe guys have issue with the fact on sign up to the website you take name/email address etc. Wouldnt take alot for that list to get to manegement.
Also I stand to be corrected on fact BRK contract is broken if your a union member?

If that's in the contract, then it immediately nullifies it. You cannot be stopped from joining a union in the EU if you wish. No contract can countermand that basic right.

Dont take my word for it though, just ask anyone with more than 10 seconds of legal or HR training.

Are you guys that dumb as to believe that that sort of thing is in the contract?

I really, really hope not.

I think that they've just pressed the self-destruct button with this latest e-mail.

Been a member on REPA - Ryanair European Pilots' Association for a few years now just like the remaining 1400ish pilots,in the meanwhile I got my upgrade and the guy who at the time talked me into joining is an active TRE now.
That says it all about how "dangerous" being a member is....

There is an active and very interesting discussion on the REPA forum that I suggest you guys join.

P.S.: REPA is not a union

I've got a few friends working in Spanish bases. On of them suggested I make a high resolution scan of his ID card and then just forge one using photoshop.

Not a bad idea and easily done. Problem solved?

I have just checked my contract and it doesn't specify anywhere that I have to get several IDs at my own expense, yes 'cause so far I have a few already!
Another very important thing about this is that we ALL did have to go through a security screening when we joined and we have already paid for it!
They already have all the required documentation.

I agree this whole thing is a scam. I have three ID's already including this new one and only been here just less than 2 years. What a bunch of thieves.

As for joining REPA, I am sure they have good intentions, but at the end of the day, we on BRK signed a contract. I know what I actually signed, and its bollocks. But it says you need to be able to operate from any 'Client' base so then you have to!! Personally I don't think we have any legal come back in refusing to get one?!

I know I signed a terrible contract, so I intent to up sticks, like many others when I am able to. In the mean time I have developed a very square jaw... taking all this !!!! on the chin. :ugh: - oh yea and deep pockets.

You do realise that contracts can be changed?
It requires agreement, but if enough of you decide to say "get stuffed" then things might happen.

Putting up with this sort of thing is so weak as to almost make me not care about RYR pilots as you obviously don't deserve any sympathy.

Maybe people will think twice about signing atrocious contracts in the future.

"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me."

Check this recent Boeing Video ! Not that Boeing actually give a S*&(, but its obvious that no body has told them, MOL and his gang of thugs are running out of people to fly their machines :)

Little birdie told me;

New 8000 Euro bond for Command bond if you leave in first year. Once given a base, no transfer request allowed for 1st year.

As much as it pisses me off, I'm kinda not surprised they are doing this. Disguised announcement things are getting tight.

Like many, I have the hours for CU, no way am I going if this is the 'rewarded contract' for your hard work and extra responsibility. Interview lined up for a another carrier, and boy am I studying hard for it.

That's not new news matey - has always been the deal when you upgrade. The bond maight have gone up a bit looking at that but the minimum of one year at the base you are sent to has always been policy.
Studying hard for my interviews too!!

I thought it used to be 5000 euros?

In other news, has anyone heard about about the BRK annual leave requests yet? Last time I checked, they are still working on the April 2011 requests as a matter of urgency. Shame the April roster is already out then.

Leave for April denied....quelle surprise! Only took them 3 months to decide. All future 'leave' requests will be made via phone to crew control, followed up with a sickness leave form :ugh:

Until recently, CU bond was €5,000 if you left within 2 years of upgrading. No mention of not being able to request base transfer. Although no way back to UK for at least 18 months allegedly :sad:

Irishpilot
It is your constitutional right under Irish law to be a member of a union,I cant believe some people are afraid to join a union let alone say the words REPA grow some balls fellow colleagues stop Ryanair driving employment rights into the stoneage with threats intimadation and paranoia.
Your names are secure in REPA they are protected under law this went all the way to the High court in Ireland,If you are a pilot in Ryanair and you dont know anything about this case you need to switch yourself on.
Our strength is in our numbers.REPA has over 1300 pilots in Ryanair who are members...The limits to what is possible has not been tested..

@widered: As i said I stand to be corrected on what the contract says, I will have a look for it tomorrow! :ok:
Interested though in you figure of 1300 pilots from ryanair.:confused: How many are actually full members willing to be active in the interest of the work force? 1300 is almost 1/3 of the pilots yet we are paying for uniform, food, coffee, hotels,medicals, flights and most recently COMPANY IDs!!!!

For this reason I struggle to believe 1/3 of the work force are in the same union otherwise a strike/"blue flu"/action would have occurred a long time ago!!

IRISHPILOT1990

REPA is not a union, its basically a website where only Ryanair pilots can discuss topics relating to employment with Ryanair & BRK

There may well be 1300 members, but that does not mean there will be a collective unionised strike or anything as its not recognised as anything more than a forum, but it is a great place for us all to get our heads together without all the PPRUNE slagging off that takes over every thread.

Join up, well worth a peek.

Vexed

You beat me to it. :ok:

It's all very well for people from the outside pissing in when it comes to our little outfit constantly reminding us that we are a spineless bunch of wankers! The ID fiasco is the latest in a line of slaps in the face for the BRK line pilot. It is based on two things. Ryanair realise they are facing a crewing problem and require additional 'drop of the hat' flexibility on their crew and secondly, nice little cutback from St James as 1000+ Brookfielders fork out for a bit of plastic with their name on it.

Everyone knows this is wrong, unbelievably wrong. No one from outside need remind us. The timing is priceless - 300 odd pilots are rumoured to have resigned in the last 6 months. That's over 10% of the workforce. It may be more?? However it appears to be doing **** all for us, and to be honest I never believed it would. To those from outside who point the finger, listen to this because this is de facto. We work in a company that is so diverse and so fragmented that the typical line pilot in sunshine base A lives a completely
separate life to that of another line pilot in base B 500nm to the north. We have over 30 nationalities with probably double the amount of cultural identities who all have very different outlooks to the world and the way Ryanair treat them. We have bases on 5/3 and bases on 5/4. People on a plethora of different pay grades and contracts. People on part time, people on full time, people working all the time and people on constant standby! :( People who have had a rough time and people who are having the best of times. There are close to 45 odd bases with over 2500 pilots, probably just under half of those are BRK. It is said, however Im uncertain of how true this is, that over half the pilots are currently in a base where they don't want to be.

Get my drift? You try getting everyone to stand up for the collective good. It would be ******* fantastic if we could, however it can't happen. Diversity has killed it. This ID mess is something that invariably will end in acceptance on behalf of the pilots, because they can do damn all else. I'm not saying that is right, by far - no way! However for those refusing, the memos only get harsher and the threats of consequence greater. I know people on BRK contracts who have tried to fight on principle. They lost their jobs! I'm not !!!!ting you!

As I say, it's all fine and dandy for those well principled folks from the outside pissing in. People who have had enough simply leave because what else is there? I wish every one of my previous colleagues well.

CK - very well said.

that's seconded.

CK, your time will come mate.

Do what you can, but plan your exit and leave as fast as is humanly possible.

However, the lack of fight by RYR crews is exactly what the management team is relying on. You might think it's a hopeless fight, but I can assure you that it isn't.

The problem at the moment is that you are all fighting individually. If you were a proper union, then things might change. I know that the RYR management team are a smart bunch, but in comparison the crews are getting humped and it's a case of how much you think that's a problem.

I earn a very nice salary working for an excellent company that treats me extremely well, so it's easy for me to say "sort your lives out", but I've been at the other end, fighting for union recognition and working for a company that makes RYR look like the most enlightened organisation ever known to man.

If you don't fight, then you are part of the problem, not part of the solution and that, I'm afraid, is how it is.

I've been there, done it and made the vow never to work for w***ers again. So far it's paying off. I wish you all luck in the future as I can promise you that it's a whole load better once you work for a company that treats you with respect.

zerotohero and vexed cheers.

@ Mikehotel... I agree with you there is bigger issues, but personally it is the in your face disrespect that comes with these “small issues” that wears down the BRK guy.:(
"Expenses incurred in relation to my job are deducted from my tax bill"
No disrespect but I don’t agree with this argument I hear regularly. It still costs you, you only get it deducted from gross pay, the tax thing is not a refund,:= you’re lucky to see 25-30% of the expense back.:(



Regarding the IDs; obviously they need more flexibility this summer; however I think management have a second motive.
They may want to send out a message “Look guys, were doing so well even with these pilot loses that we can still rob you, :E so don’t expect much change in terms and conditions.”:ouch: Knock us down, and then offer us something because they are so “generous”. :D

How many pilots this week will say bored in flight " God I though mangement would be worried but got email other day asking for money for ID...bla bla... they must not be having any issues"

Great post Captain Kilo

Had an interesting conversation with a two-bar FO in the crew room yesterday.

me: So I figure you got that mail about the new company ID too?
him: Yes, It seems like a bunch of work!
me: Yeah, that's exactly why I'm not getting one.
him: But it says you can be required to work from any base so you need one?
me: Yeah, in that case I'm going to be sick of the odd week they move me out of base to Spain.
him: But... so what will you do when you need to go to spain?
me: Like I said, I'll be sick.
him: But you need an ID!
me: No, I don't need an ID from a company I don't work for and would have to pay for myself. So I'm not getting one. F*c that.

He then looked at me with a mixture of incredulity and puzzlement on his face. Apparently to him it seemed unfathomable I would refuse to do what Brookfield told me.

Meanwhile my applications are in the mail. Can't wait for an answer/invitation to interview.

I already have one unfortunately, and its not worth the wafer thin plastic its printed on, already had issues 3 times getting through security with it and had to pull out my airport airside ID instead.

its a waste of £50 and 3-4 hours of my time getting the references, but I am Spanish based so was originally led to believe we needed it or Aena would deny us access, well guess what, they still do anyway.

I would love to have been in the same place now in a UK base or somewhere else and told BRK to go F themselves on it.

Applications are out there also though. :ok:

Can't believe you spinelss w's are still going on about the conditions you so eagerly helped to create!

MOLG

Thanks for your input, but politely go **** yourself. You know little to nothing about this company. A select few chose the destiny that is Ryanair. Not the majority that find themselves here today. If you feel up for the fight then join the ranks. If not, save the bandwidth and keep your spineless 'behind the keyboard' thoughts to yourself. You add nothing to what is happening here. Idiot.

I agree CK, look at his joining date, either new or has nothing else better to do

I used to get fed up with the FR bashers on here all the time, I seem to recall some buffoon called smith or smithy or something who used to go straight for the jugular as far as FR was concerned. I also seem to recall Call Sign Kilo singing the praises of FR in his defence of SSTR's against smithy, what's the matter now CSK? Why the change of heart? Maybe that idiot Mr Smith wasn't so wrong after all in all his rantings :D

The words 'Reap' and 'Sow' spring to mind!

MOLG, this thread is for people who are trying to help make Ryanair a better place to work or provide useful info so we can mince away to an airline that gives you a 5 course meal, respect, a cuddle at the end of the day and possibly a handjob after a stressful sim. Unfortunate individuals like Smitho and BlackRed who gain satisfaction from spending their free time sneering at people on an internet message board aren't contributing anything useful to this particular discussion/the world and will be looked at with pitty by those of us with an IQ above 27. If you have nothing to contribute other than flagrant attempts to get a rise from people perhaps you and your aforementioned and erstwhile comrades mentioned above, would like to invest your time in a more productive hobby, perhaps take up baking or somesuch.... or maybe even call your mother and ask her just why it was she didn't hug you enough as a child.... because it's quite apparent she didn't.

DPS

You just don't get it do you, you bent over before, so why even try and make the place a better place to work. A lot (not all) of you were prepared to take sh1t to leapfrog your way in the door, thus setting set your stall out from the start.

Still no hugs then?