I really can't be naffed to get drawn in on this one, however the above is the same story in every Industry, every office environment known to man. The more you kiss ar*e or are a really nasty piece of work (eg our Boss) then you shall rise like a 14 year olds hang dang watching a porno.:8 Just like getting an airline job in the first place, it's "who you know, not what you know".
Still, do we know the outcome up in East Mids?

intimidated, I think you've got a fair point here. Think I'll start printing these pages for further possible use some time later.

democracy distorted
 

latest news from ryanair.democracy has been cancelled.the iranians are counting the vote and cannot agree the percentage win,because the zimbabweans forgot to forge extra votes.

You print them out my little redneck Floridian and wave them in front of whoever you like because no one ever said anything about during flight duties except the intimidated one.

The result of the BALPA recognition ballot at EMA is......................in the mail to the inbox of each EMA pilot, in the post to Jim McAuslan and in email form to the company. :D

You will find out in due course, but the people who need to know come first.:ok:

"Company Time" are you now rostered to spout your dribble on company time. How does that appear on your roster. Hope you are not in breach of our flight time limitations, and getting the required rest period etc etc.

Interesting, but take care when in front of a judge. We don't want you'll telling lies and end up in the can. You know all about Unity then - little friend.

Any news -

Ahhhh, Slim thank god you're still with us (thats not patronising I'm genuinely pleased!!). So, it seems like a big NO from the EMA base judging by the upbeat nature of your post. We continue to see what happens elsewhere.
For those of you who were concerned throughout the afternoon, you'll be pleased to hear that I didn't implode with the tension and the pants have remained fully intact. :}:ok:
And now I'm off to the pub. Taxi!!

That's the spirit Scared One: change things every time it is pointed out what a complete debacle every one of your statements turns out to be.

No one believes a word you write: you have been roundly discredited and your threats are, frankly, about as credible as BALPA's chances of getting recognition in the gent's toilet in the concourse of Waterloo station.

You and your chums have not been able to provide anyone with a valid reason, not one single reason, to ally themselves with you: on the contrary, I have, together with my colleagues who have no stomach for BALPA stupidity, been able to present a case why the pilots should not accede to your brow beating.

You have been humiliated, again: your only resort is the usual tactic of playing the man and not the ball.

Go away, lick your wounds and get a life.

what are all these ballots you guys on about are they voting for balpa in any bases already or are these just internal things being done

Alas the bully appears to have won. How unfair for the Ryan pilots and in time for the rest of the European pilot workforce.

Good lord. "I'm an English instructor at an university..."

And "deflamatry" was not a mistake - there is no such word and it wasn't a typo.

The Real Slim Shady - as you and your fellow travellers speak in riddles it is difficult to work out what has actually happened. I fear, however, by your foolish remarks that the vote has gone against BALPA. If so, a massive opportunity has been missed by all Ryanair pilots to escape from 18th century poor house practices and embrace 21st century industrial relations. Nonetheless, I am a democrat and if that is how the pilots have voted, then so be it. I am disappointed more than I can say that there are so few people with the foresight to see what an opportunity has escaped them. The truth is that down the generations people have preferred the slavery they know to the freedom they had only heard of. To watch one's fellow professionals act like lemmings jumping off a cliff is truly dire - in years to come many of you will look back with shame and embarrassment at this moment. You, alas, deserve all you are going to get at the hands of the blessed Michael - I am truly astounded.

That sums it up very succinctly NSF. One can only wonder at the mental capacity of the likes of TRSS. "I only campaign against the union on my own time." And then when exposed as having campaigned on company time, " I asked for permission." What an unedifying vision that conjures up. "Please, sir, may I have permission to campaign against the union on company time?" "There's a good boy, of course you can". "Yes sir, thank you sir, what would you like me to say sir, and if there's anything else I can do sir...."
What an unmitigated disaster it is for pilots as a professional group to have twerps like TRSS and his ilk among our ranks. History will show that their supine, sycophantic sucking up to the likes of MOL and his minions did more to destroy our profession than MOL could ever have dreamed of achieving by their own efforts. TRSS and his offensive weapon make my flesh crawl..And if that constitutes attacking the man so be it. He well deserves it.

That all depends on your definition of nightmare. If actually having an agreement in place whereby if no alternative is deemed possible the crews who have to move are given assistance to do so and a reasonable period of notice of this happening. It's not only RYR that have to close bases (although never heard of it done in such a spiteful way) and has happened to me and colleagues in my company. Not very pleasant at all but at least we knew well in advance and the move was nearly cost neutral.

Must make for a nice relaxed atmosphere in the cockpit :-

"So bloggs, good news about the scum from Balpa being well stitched up isn't it?"

"Well actually actually Capt Shady, or may I call you Slim, I did rather hope for a different outcome"

"Oh bad luck old chap I didn't realise that you were involved in that pathetic group of conspirators who wanted to bring down our wonderful airline. Still we should have a good week together shouldn't we. By the way have you met Ms Sky in the cabin, she's with us all day"

Quote from Tooloose


Says it all really .......

I hope the EMA base continues to be well "represented" by it's ERC.

Good luck guys, you're going to need it !


:ugh:

Indeed. And now you will be unprotected from MOL, both in law and in reality.

And if things get bad and you decide to work to rule?

Have a look at this advice on working to rule:

You would never ever guess who wrote this... Click here to find out! :D

Let's face it, if you know what you're getting into before applying Ryanair is not a bad place to start your career. Get in and get a couple of thousand hours of jet time and get out. There's no point bitching and moaning once you find yourself in a situation that you don't like. Get out or stay put, you decide.

Err, no. There's nowhere else to go for the majority of Ryanair pilots. It's rapidly becoming so big that for most, the future is Ryanair. They've made, or at least in the process of making their bed, and they'll have to lie in it.

I hope they have a long and rewarding career as a business cost in a non-unionised carrier. 30 years will be a long time with MoL and successors bearing down on them. Good luck.

I think you have to remember that EMA is the centre of training so theres alot of TRE/TRI or SFIs around who will have had plenty of opportunity to be brainwashed and /or the chance to kiss ass in the hope of climbing the greasy pole!

HundredPercent Please,
Yes, amazing isn't it how "loyalties" can change in the space of less than 3 yrs, and so virulent with it too, I have seen a few like that in FR.
Aldente / tocamak / Tooloose / NSF I think you have summed it up pretty well.
I never fail to be amazed at the lack of foresight, imagination, balls, maturity, & indeed dignity & (self) respect , shown by individuals let loose supposedly in charge of a public transport category aircraft yet with myopia so severe that they can't see beyond the self interest sitting on the end of their little snouts.
Aforesaid snouts will have to be pushed even further into the trough from now on, the "feeders" will be throwing less in, and won't really feel the need to reciprocate their touching loyalty by throwing them some tasty tit-bits.

All done & dusted for the next 3 yrs then lads, we will give you a call next time around then ya spineless judas's. Bah ! :ugh: := :}

If the Unions are locked out for another 3 years.

Standby for the stampede of reductions.

The so called 4 year deals, that barely last 1 year, will now be decimated.

The ERC's will be text'n us to inform us if we don't accept the new deal on offer, we'll revert back to the feared 5/3, or they are also thinking of closing the base if we don't accept.

I believe Slim is reffering to the non secret ballot, the one by which you can be identified by your reply.

You know the sort that means they know who voted what and hence intimidation plays a massive part.

Indeed, if your name is not on the list, they'll all know who the union men are. :=

Hundredpercent,

You took the quotation out of context and that, together with your evident lack of insight in to the workings of BALPA and Industrial Tribunals, rather hangs you by your own petard.

Firstly, the tactic of isolating the protagonists is not new: secondly, the spineless masses of Union acolytes, when faced with the grim reality that they could be next, back down and the support crumbles.

That leaves the leaders to fight their own fight, supported by the union or not, while the rest of cowards like you make certain that nothing falls at your door.

The leaders then win the victory of reinstatement, but the Tribunal is powerless to enforce it: hence they are still out of work!

Unite or perish refers not to your calls for union recognition, but rather the very sound advice that your blessed union is utterly worthless unless every last one of you is prepared to stand up and be counted, which, patently you are not.

You all bitch and moan because some of us really don't like your grubby little union: I have yet to see any of you put your heads above the parapet and canvas for your strongly held beliefs.

I have yet to hear even your union officials answer the questions I asked directly of them in private correspondence: in short, you are all mouth and no action.

I reiterate, you have no valid, coherent case to put forward: you all resort to personal attacks and abuse because you are incapable of presenting a manifesto of improvements.

I really don't care to involve myself in your pathetic little charade: the bases are rejecting the recognition applications one by one. Perhaps your demonstrated inadequacies and constant whining has done more to convince them than I ever could.

Quote from Shoddy...Unite or perish refers not to your calls for union recognition, but rather the very sound advice that your blessed union is utterly worthless unless every last one of you is prepared to stand up and be counted, which, patently you are not.

How can every last one of us stand up when we have cowards like you on board.

Where are the ballot results????
 

Now we see the real nature of the pilot hating management that exists in ryanair through their latest union busting propoganda mouthpiece(slime shoddy).it is real easy to spout on about "heads above parapets" and "standing out",when protected by the management and knowing full well that the playing field is not level,because pro union pilots will be summarily fired.

What slime shoddy,neglects to tell you is that the results of the ballot will not become public knowledge because the pilots of ema chose to ignore his union busting tactics and boycotted the "undemocratic" vote.the latest vitriolic attack on pilots is no mask for his frustration that certain pilots are wise to the scam and he has got a damn good thrashing.who swung from the petard,may very well be slim the retard!abusing the sky has gone spookily quiet,possible that she has buckled under the pressure from all the supposed "threatening emails" which conveniently seem to have been forgotten.

slimbo,get the last throws of resistance out of your system,you have lost and you know it!!!

Another Shoddy Quote

I really don't care to involve myself in your pathetic little charade: the bases are rejecting the recognition applications one by one. Perhaps your demonstrated inadequacies and constant whining has done more to convince them than I ever could.

It's only pathetic because of the like of you.........if things go your way, god help us. Three more years....maybe not enough time for you to learn.

Sad Intimated Person,

I'm not on board.

I can't stand you or your spineless colleagues.

You are all gutless.

I have the cojones to stand up for what I believe and put my name to it: you are just a bunch of......................

MHAW HAH HAH

We win.

You lose.

Love and Kisses

EMA Base

Sorry, PS DIM REPA, you lose too ;)

And if you ask McAuslan nicely he will copy my letter to him to you:-)

Failing that, one of my colleagues who is pro BALPA will publish my email and letter.

RSS,

I'll give you a grown up answer - can you respond in a grown up way or will it be donkey pictures? I challenge you...

At our similar company (orange) we have similar managers to you. Disrespect for contracts and fairness at times, especially when it suits them.

When they turn to us and just take something away - either from all or a select group - then the union has power to say "no". And they do. And when the company says "tough, we shall do what we like", then the union serves a writ and the company has to back down.

:)

Balpa are far from perfect, and I'd rather pay them less than I do. But they provide the legal glue that allows us to be heard, and it mostly works. And it has certainly left us in a better position financially.

You are promoting the opposite - the continuation of the situation where you can be picked off either individually or as a group. Why?

Prove you do have some balls by responding in a reasoned way.

Mmmm apparently, FR have suspended/delayed TR courses certainly from Nov 09 onwards until April/May of next year, and have told candidates they will have to do another sim check! What gives? Too many recruits to process or interviewed too many for jobs on offer? ahhh will be interesting to see if they charge them for another sim check....Glad I didn't go for it! what a waste of money!

Hundred percent, you know you won't, these characters have made a choice and they cannot change it, they have chosen to lick the greasy management pole fir their own ends so they can get on in ryanair. In doing this they have become hairy camels foot soldiers. The ryanair management style equates to outdated sweatshop slavery and they have aligned themsleves to thar so that they can secure positions as masters in this regime and be the bulliers rather than the bullied. For that reason you will never get his type to admit that pilots at the moment do not have a voice in ryanair and at the very least balpa would give them that voice. Instead they join a campain of intimidation and threats where they believe they are one of the chiefs, it is all so similar to how Hitler ruled Nazi Germany, many Germans wanted to revolt against Hitler but the iron grip the Nazis had over the country meant almost certain suicide for those who opposed him from within. In the end Hitler ruled Germany to the bitter end and look where he took his country. An extreme comparison granted, but slavery is not. If a base is only viable by running it without union input, how anyone can support such an absurd claim is beyond me, hell if we remove human rights then surley anybase could be made viable, but where do pilots draw the line? Where would hairy **** face and co draw the line? If balpa are not recognised then it is due to a campaign of threats intimidation and bullying, if I were an fo having to share a flight deck with any if these henchmen I don't know if the duty could be completed in a safe crm environment. This is truley one of the low points for both ryanair and our profession as a whole. I hope MOL's body fluids are keeping his henchmen who post here warm at night, because I don't know how they can live with themselves, truley astonishing that such 3rd world management is permitted to thrive on your backs today.

Best of luck to the ryanair guys, it can only get worse for you now, and i' m sure they will post that getting worse means bases staying open and jobs saved etc etc, fine let them believe that if they like the more enlightened of us know what it really means!

powdermonkey

They probably were recruiting in the event of base closure and sacking of current employees. But they are falling on their shoddy ars*holes now, so may not need those in the pool for three years now. Far cheaper to keep to current slim (dim) ones.

@ vexed, The 'ballot' RSS refers to has no legal standing AFAIK. The ballot for recognition must be simultaneous across the UK and run under the auspices of an independent organisation such as the Electoral Reform Society, this would normally happen via a mailout to all registered BALPA members within the company. I believe that either side may enclose a short statement supporting their case within the mail shot. All votes will be counted immediately following closure of the deadline by that independent body and it shall be a secret ballot therefor it will be impossible to determine the REAL strength of feeling at an individual base. It is up to each individual as to whether they wish to disclose how they voted and I suspect that those that do may not be telling the truth in order that back stabbers and company spivs do not grass them up. Nor would I rule out the opposite type of lie ie anti BALPA snake actually voting for because they can see the way the wind blows.
As another poster has said, the results that RSS is wallowing in are null and void and may be hugely skewed from the actual eventual outcome.
As a union person myself (Unison steward, RSS is sure to jump on that one) I hope RSS gets to write the statement for FR's anti stance, should be better than the Beano.

Again we have forgotten the BRK pilots.
They are part of any base and should be given the right to decide the destiny of their base, and their careers.
Without their support any vote concerning recognition at a specific base could be challenged in the UK legal system.

The future of Base by Base representation is currently at a low ebb as those who have made their voices known have rejected BALPA representation leaving the others (Bases) who may vote in favour at greater risk of being closed and the workers being made surplus to requirements.

I'm sorry. I don't understand your point. Please say again slowly.

Dear Other Guy
 

You're mixing and matching content to suit your flavour of the day: be my guest.

Your dictionary and mine agree.

I do have this feeling this thread is suffering professionally qualified levels of poisoning in a bid to mess up social networking.

I maintain that there are multiple stakeholders in your teacup squabble: it is not just employees vs. management, but users and airport vicinity residents as well.

I further maintain that quadrilogue (which may not be in your dictionary, Sir) can be as constructive as the spirit of its participants: win/win/win/win is definitely among the range of possible outcomes, if the airline's public relations people have enough imagination to suggest positive advertising spin-off.

I am basically SLF.

I would love to earn one more soft spot for one more airline.

So can we call off this little psyop?

@ Day Dreamer - As I indicated in my post, the vote will be amongst BALPA members so I would have thought the answer to you would be to join BALPA. In my place of work we have people who work via agency, analagous to your situation I think, and I will always treat them as equals and represent them if they are Unison members. However you are also self-employed, if I understand things corrrectly, which means that your one man band company (that is what it is) is operating according to the T&Cs negotiated between your company and RYR, I am afraid that is the downside of the tax advantages you have as a 'company'.

@ ArthurBorges - What are you talking about? And location = China? Trolls in sight?

And there, al446, lies the rub.

The rest of you can whistle or join the shabby little outfit.

That is why The Real Slim Shady stood up: your feeble reliance on BALPA members ignores everyone else.

Vote No, retain your dignity and respect - and 1% of your salary :D:D

There is no such thing as a free lunch.....unless you work for BALPA

many a time and oft
In the Rialto you have rated me
About my moneys and my usances:
Still have I borne it with a patient shrug,
For sufferance is the badge of all our tribe.
You call me misbeliever, cut-throat dog

Recognise it?

RSS
 

Nope, I don't recognise it and now you will probably call me an ignorant charlatan. I tend to spend more time reading relevant legislation, it can be helpful in assisting members. You should try it sometime as you seem to be having some difficulty in understanding the law regarding TU recognition.

There is no provision in law for a company wide, all inclusive vote as to whether a TU should be recognised or not, that is in the hands of members of the relevant union. Should you wish to pay your 1% and participate in order to vote no then go ahead, I am sure MOL will gladly reimburse you. I am not aware of BALPA's rule book but would have thought that, given your very public stance on this matter you may find that there is provision for them to legally refuse your application.

I will leave it to your pro-BALPA colleagues to discuss dignity and respect with you.

RSS,

It's not 1% - please get your facts right. The tax relief makes is less.

You said to me:

You then said:

So I rose to your request here.

Do you have the balls to answer or not? The fact you have been on and posted without answer is making you look a little scared of reasoned debate. As well as spherically challenged.

The whippings will continue until morale improves...