Welcome back RSS
 

It's always nice for the cat to have a rodent to play with. I've missed you, honest.

What you say may work, it's theoretically possible, if you say so, but the tooth fairy may exist too. My point is, if you believe that you will believe any old crap that MOL feeds you. I posted previously as to why it was crap speculation on strategy - have a look at my previous posts. The board would not wear it and the claim of UK biggest airline goes down the swannee. No UK bases = non UK airline.

You posted a couple of things a few days back I would like to respond to. You questioned why I should post on this matter as I am not a pilot. I explained in my first post, I think, that I am not a pilot but was mightily sick of reading distortions and speculation dressed as fact and I tried to bring some sanity by introducing the reality of the law regarding the ballot, should it happen. I also stated that the union I am an activist for is Unison. As a union activist I am used to taking on big-mouths and bullies. I can also smell grease balls and company lickspittles from a distance. You were pushing misinformation on a publicly available board. I think that gives me the right to comment.

Regarding Unite, I am not a member and have no torch to carry but think that, looking at things objectively and reading some of the negative comments about BALPA, if they are genuine, that BALPA would be better teaming up with Unite. It would give them access to greater industrial expertise than any small union presently can access affordably. That was an observation, not peddling their cause as you implied.

I think you may also have conveniently forgotten that UK has the most pro-business labour laws in Europe and by moving staff to European bases the company would be going from the frying pan into the maelstrom.

Try to think before you post.:=

al446

The law allows for free and fair elections, however when a large group of PILOTS are excluded this cannot be considered as a fair representation of the workforce.
This can be grounds to refuse the results of a vote, by the management as not representative.

As for base closures "Watch this space" they will happen and as RSS has said BRS routes can easily be operated from other bases with just a slight change on timings.

As for bursting my bubble, it is of little worth to me if BALPA get IN or NOT to RYR as I am not an employee.
I am a member of the TGWU, who recently refused to represent an Airline on the grounds that they would be stepping on BALPA's toes.

What I do object to is the exclusion of the BRK pilots from a vote which directly effects their livelyhoods and ability to support their families who in many cases have gone through much hardship to support their partner or children.

As to BALPA themselves they try to sell a product which they cannot possibly achieve, especially with confrontational management.
They are more interested in the 1% subscriptions than the persons they are supposed to represent.

al446 you might well be a BALPA / Unionist stooge posting here in desperation at the dwindling support.

The bottom line to the RYR / BRK pilots is do you believe that base closures will not happen if BALPA get elected ? that your jobs will be safe ?
Think long and hard, and make up your own minds.

Most posts on here are from Die Hard BALPA members or Anti BALPA.
I am trying to inject some reason and fairness (All voices should be heard) into the arguments.

Yes I am anti BALPA (With good reason to be)
Yes I believe in a free and fair vote of ALL BRK / RYR pilots.

In the current climate, do YOU want to RISK your jobs ?

BRK?
Are you talking about those guys who aren't given a choice between FR and BRK contracts because the latter are the only ones available?
Are you talking about those guys who are forced to take care of their own taxes/pension/healthcare with all the associated risks of screwing something up in such delicate matters and pay for that personally?
Are you talking about those BRK guys who are not even represented by the ERC's?
Are you talking about those guys whose rosters work according to "guidelines" and could fly 100hrs/month (like some Captains) or 45 like many F/O's with tons of unpaid STBY days?
Are you talking about those guys who get sent to other bases even if based somewhere and are not given the 5th extra day like off like the floaters for commuting having therefore to commute on their last and first days off?
Are you talking about that group of pilots whose jobs can be terminated overnight, who are called self employed without being able to work for anybodyelse but FR (by contract), who have ZERO benefits, who have to pay for absolutely everything by themselves, who don't have any sort of representation nor negotiation system in place?

Yes you are right, let them vote.....

SCOOP: al446 predicts correctly that The Tooth Fairy exists
 

So al446 confirms that he knows the square root of sweet FA about aviation and even less about Ryanair and MOL.

40% off the winter flights at STN cancelled.

Time for BALPA to step in and save the day!!

They can start their own airline and all the unhappy pilots in all the miserable tyrannical airlines can toddle off and join, and take al446 with you as the prime negotiator: might as well screw it up royally right from day 1.

BALPA has no influence on commercial decisions: that is reality not al446's life in Far Far Away.

RSS
 

If you say so but then you will have no objection to BALPA's involvement in RYR as all the doom and gloom you have forecast are commercial decisions.

As to the extent of my knowledge, while you underestimate it it doesn't really matter as a great deal of the discussion could equally apply to any other UK business sector, in labour relations aviation is not a special case.

You mention the cancellations at STN. BALPA's fault? Which says RYR is feeling the pinch. All the more reason for the RYR pilots to get BALPA in, unfortunately the BRK guys are on their own as contractors, they knew it when they started.

Unfortunately the earliest I had planned going to far far away land is Sept so I will just have to remain a few miles north of Manchester for the time being in nearby land.

Day dreamer

The TGWU amalgamated with Amicus in 2007 to become Unite, my wife is one of their stewards. Anyone who had ANY position in that union would not refer to it as TGWU, even members.
You must be some high falutin kind of member to be approached by an airline. And it is not in your gift to decide who to represent. Besides, UK law allows anyone to apply to join any union, In the case of Unite I very much doubt that they would refuse, if BALPA had recognition within RYR they may suggest that they would be better but if the applicant had reason for not wanting to go down that road they would probably admit and give the best representation they could. As they are already organised amongst many CC they do have relevant aviation experience.
By making the above statement you give me overwhelming reason to think that you are a Walt, or even worse, a RYR stooge. It is compounded by -

In terms of recognition and related ballots the law does not mention the workforce, it mentions the bargaining unit which, in this case, is RYR employed pilots. The ballot has legal standing and management can do nowt about it.

I have no idea of the level of support and, if you read my previous posts, you will see that I stated some time ago that I fly no flag for either side, I just get a touch p*ssed off reading speculation dressed as fact and blatant misunderstandings or misquotes of the law deliberately made to support a specious argument.

Try to do so using truth and an understanding of the law.

My membership card still carries the Logo TGWU so if its UNITE so what.
I am only a member along with many Pilots who wanted an alternative to BALPA.
We had months of discussions but ultimately we were let down.(internal union politics)
Its a pity that you like many committed unionists dont read what is written as you only see what you want to see. (Or your wife tells you to see)

The bargaining unit are RYR Pilots yes, but over 1/3rd of the workforce are BRK a factor that should be considered in the interests of fair play alone.

al446 I suggest that you too should stop posting on an AIRCREW site as you could never fully understand what we have gone through as members of BALPA and not been adequately supported, and in some cases actively sold down the Swanee.

As I have said before from fact, more BALPA members have left through poor representation, than have been helped.

I can see that by the speed of your response that you might well be an office jock, possibly Press or Union related.
And before you waste time in a counter comment I will tell you that I am on duty later today so at the moment my time is free.

Mrs Maggie Thatcher was right when she brought in the legislation concerning Unions, they were political hacks, who as the tail were trying to wag the dog.

I suggest that at each base a Pilot gets in touch with each BRK pilot and obtains their e-mail BALPA member or Not.
Then a mass e-mail is sent out to gauge the feeling for inclusion in the final vote.
Should there be a majority then you can approach BALPA to include the BRK pilots in the final count.

This at least would be their chance to be included in any decision making process.
As many of you say BALPA must work for you, and if its the will of the members to include the BRK pilots then they should respect your wishes and act accordingly.

I am glad to see that re-deployment is mentioned ex STN and PIK rather than job losses.

YES I am against the new and old taxes, set by a disfunctional and out of touch government.

If you include the BRK pilots, which has been part of my argument then that is one battle in the war won.

PIK capacity reduction,Now STN
 

Interesting article,describing mol outed as the CAMEL!


Ryanair withdraw planes following massive huff with Stansted | BitterWallet


The Paypers. Insights in payments.


whatever about the environmental tax,why not tackle the card charges?

What a shame...

I ve been told by Brookfield F/Os that they are planned now for some base duty without being paid!

Where are we going like that? what a beautiful Ryanair world, if we let that going on, CPTs are going to do the same!

Whale meat and Weissebier, anyone? Anyone?
 

The way I understand it Day Dreamer, is that whether you include them or not doesn't matter, as the vote is for RYR employees (which as contractors who are self employed, doesn't include BRK). If you were to include them and they voted in favour of BALPA, I am sure RYR would be front of the queue pointing this out.

Whether this is morally right/wrong is for another discussion. Unfortunately the law is the law (which is an ass at times).

As for being sold down the swanee by BALPA, well that is a great shame, there are people out there like you. You were not the first, and I'm in no doubt you will not be the last. There are people in my company who are not BALPA members for that reason, these are the people I don't begrudge living off my coat tails as I pay my subs. The people I can't stand are the ones taking the benefits that BALPA and our CC achieve for us, while being too cheap to stump up the subs (fortunately they are few and far between).

Old News..
 

Leo's secretly in love with his boss!

Day dreamer
 

Your powers of deduction come nowhere near your optimism, I actually work for a local authority on a 24/7 rota so could equally post at any time of day, any day of the week. Thankfully, for the public, you are not a policeman.

Leave no straw unclutched should be your motto. At least you have accepted the composition of the bargaining unit, the only entity recognised in law, but in a later post you keep on going.

Wrong, the law is the law, BALPA can't change it, if you wish to stand for election and persuade a majority of both houses to do so. Until then, dream on.
The reality for BRK guys is that they only mirror whole swathes of UK workforce most of which is run on 50% or more agency labour and BRK = agency. I see it in my workplace. When we have a ballot on T&Cs agency are excluded as their contract is with their agency, not my employer. even when they join the union I am limited in how far I can represent due to this. I wish it were different, I was in their position until I was taken on directly. Welcome to the real world.

First, I will not stop posting unless the mods decide I should not. You, RSS, CommandB, etc are posting on a public forum and should expect input. In my case I think it has been helpful to some as nobody else seemed to be taking the actuality of the law into account and I posted the link to clarify the situation, until then everything was misinformation including speculation dressed as fact. If you are uneasy with my posts then try to factually destroy them.
For what it is worth I think it would serve you well to request a closed RYR page which would remove me.

Please give examples. I mostly read things at least twice, especially when it has to do with the law, I have to when representing members. I mentioned my wife only in the context of Unite (I notice you have not addressed the rest of that para re being approached by an airline). As with any relationship that has lasted 27 years we tend to reach consensus, or not as the case may be, and neither shapes the thinking of the other. As good union people we share experiences and each takes away from that what we will, not as instructed. I think I may understand more about the business of aviation than you understand about unions, or free thinking come to that.

A good leader fights the battles they CAN win, not the ones they dream of winning.

Your final point on Thatcher etc had some limited merit a long time ago, almost 30 years ago. The debate/argument over that should not be carried out in this forum but if you wish to direct me to one that is more appropriate I will be only too happy to join discussion with you. I do find it disappointing that you approach industrial relations with that parrot sat on your shoulder.

This discussion is about the future of RYR pilots and how their T&Cs have and will be eroded, it is in the interest of those of us further down the pay scales do not see this happen as it is probably the only part of trickle-down that will happen ie we shall be hit harder.

al446

Read the posts more carefully.

I was NOT approached by an airline, quite the opposite I was part of the airline membership that approached the TGWU (UNITE).
Specsavers do great rates on glasses I get mine there.

You may put a case for the law but a legal eagle tells me there is precedence for allowing in the BRK as part of the bargaining body.(Mainly as they only work for RYR)

A closed RYR page is a good idea, as many companies have on here.

You must understand that I am posting for the rights of the BRK crews, their future is at stake and they need inclusion in the decision making.

I feel sure that many of the RYR pilots would like to have them (BRK) included as they are an integral part of the team.

Whilst we are fighting our respective corners there are far more RYR / BRK pilots who do not post, it will ultimately be their vote which will decide the outcome.

Day dreamer
 

I am glad you find my suggestion of a closed page to have merit, it has the added advantage that the journos don't get to look at it unless they manage to hack it. Hopefully keeps management out too.

Apologies about misunderstanding your role re TGWU, I am always willing to admit genuine mistakes.

I would have to disagree with your legal mate, in certain circumstances he may be right in assessing if the BRK guy was to all intents and purposes employed solely in RYR work, this is especially true in unfair dismissal cases where if you can prove that your services are used by only RYR, you are dependant on that and are treated in the same way as RYR pilots then employment law may be applicable. It is more dodgy in terms of recognition as the determinant, I believe, is who your contract of employment is issued by. By all means challenge it but I think it is slim to almost impossible.

I understand your motivation, I am very fond of the agency colleagues I work and try to provide as much support as I can but am aware of the limitations. I have been there and understand their vulnerability and lack of security. I detest the way UK has gone in employing agency workers willy-nilly, I saw this first in Holland in the 80s. It leads to short termism by management and those direct employees who are left being shafted but it is not a problem that will be wished away.

I fully agree with your closing sentence. Good luck to all, aviation has a way to go down before it comes up.

Lads

Just reading the news about cutting flights and aircraft in/from the UK airports. I know that they were making threats about closing some UK bases but thought it was all hot air. I am wondering if this threat is now more realistic and achievable. Good luck to all of you. I don't know what advice to give about the chipping away at your terms and conditions but you do need to stick together.

It annoys me that the little pikey is crying about the UK putting up APD tax. Maybe he should look closer to home and put all his 'employees' on full time contracts and start to match the income tax and NI contributions.


Once again he gets free advertising by making bull!!!! outrageous comments in the papers. I don't know why the editors give him the free adverts.

These cuts at STN, and any other base closures at the UK have bugger all to do with the BALPA campaign. Too many seats for a market that doesn't demand it.

SD
 

I am totally in agreement with you. The increase in APD pales into insignificance in comparison to the upping of additional or hidden charges levied by RYR, I will not even touch on customer service.

Everyone with a hole in his *rse knew that a drop in demand was on its way, I am surprised it has taken this long to translate to cuts, but MOL and co will blame it on the BALPA thing, hence the postings of those paragons of truth such as The Real Slim Shady, Jenny B, CommandB etc. TRSS is a honey, almost every post he has put up has tried to spread disinformation but, when challenged him he has been knocked down. Don't get me wrong, some of what he posted has an element of truth.

Some bases probably will close as aviation feels the bite even deeper, an influential think tank is now predicting that it will be 5 years before UK economy recovers to LAST year's level, people will be laid off. All the more reason to unionise, whether it is BALPA or another does not concern me, the important thing is that it happens with ONE pilot's union and you elect people of vision and integrity to represent you.

All gone quiet.....? Any news on the indicative ballot held on 17th July?

:ooh:

Gentlemen. Whichever side of this debate you are on, most of you have one thing in common. You all have a job with a major airline. You enjoy a fixed roster pattern which in my experience counts for a great deal. It acknowledges the fact that you have a life outside the job that you can plan and organise, more than a mnoth in advance, like real people do. Of course you may well be based away from home but you can at least plan trips back regularly.
The alternative is likely to be up to 2 months at a stretch in some armpit country, and 2 weeks with your family, for crap pay.
My application to FR was rejected prior to assessment despite ticking all the boxes many times over. More than one person has suggested its because of this unrest about unions. Who knows?
Sometimes its worth thinking about what you`ve got instead of what you would like!
Good luck! and for goodness sake dont let this get in the way of staying safe!!! :ok:

Well said, Stig. Sorry you didn't make it but you might care to try again. As the Chinese say; "opportunity in chaos" The base freeze has sharpened our focus on DEC's for the time being. Do try again, won't you?

Leo.

Leo,

A very well mannered and friendly response to flyingstig, I for one know he will appreciate that response.

Despite that someone will manage to demean or criticise the response and cite it as evidence that MOL/FR is the root cause of all evil in the world, interplanetary trajectory, the economic meltdown and the reason behind the extinction of the dodo!

Don't be silly Bruce, the dodo was down to someone else.

IPF does exist in the UK. It comes under IPA

IPA is not a union, however, IPF is. :)

Flyingstig - The idea that potential BALPA recognition stopped your job application being successful is simply scaremongering tactics and has no rational basis. Ryanair will employ exactly the number of pilots it needs - no more and no less. BALPA have no part in that. These type of conspiracy theories are up there with the Americans not landing on the moon or aliens landing at Roswell. You can choose to believe the conspiracies, but 'the truth is out there' if you want to know it. Best of luck in the future.

Thank you Redsnail, I was quite rushed in looking for this and stand corrected.

Given that all through this thread there has been no mention of it makes me suspicious and thinking that a management troll may be flying kites.

In my reply to the PM I stated that I did not want to be inadvertently advising the 'bad guys'. That is why I posted on here. Personally, I dont give a toss, just think you guys would be better getting organised before the fan gets brownish.

al446

YOu wouldn't be adviseing the bad guys what night-fr8 has said has happened but not at Ryan Air. We have been trying to garner support for balpa for the last two years and a couple of months ago balpa finally approached our management, after an internal balpa ballot, to seek voluntary recognition. After a few delaying tatics by management, they rejected it and balpa started to go down the statuatory route. Last friday the company announced that they had accepted the IPF/A as the exclusive represntative body for negotiations covering all aspects of our employment. Some people see it as a smart move by the company to block balpa representation, and bring a union that is percieved by most as being a light weight. I don't know if the company approached the IPF/A or if a dissaffected employee who doesn't want to pay balpa subs has asked them to approach the company. In any case there are very few crew that are members of the IPA/F I only know one colleague that is a member, where the balpa membership is believed to be well over 70%.

If you have an answer it would be appreciated, I suspect that balpa have/will be inundated with calls over the next few days.

Perhaps the IPA/F is the way forward, If anyone has any experience with them comments good or bad are always welcome.

IPF/A ?? What the hell are you people on about.

I am a UK based RYR pilot and have heard of no such thing at all.

Ryanairpilot as well.
 

http://www.ipapilot.com/ (wwwdotipapilotdotcom)

Sam Crow
 

Given that BALPA has 70% membership I suggest you ask their legal people, it's what you pay for. Any advice given by me would probably be highly inaccurate and would only serve to muddy the waters. Feel free to PM me in anonimity, I copied night_fr8's PM thinking he was a bogey man.

al446

That statement doesn't really inspire confidence does it; Seeing as you posted his 'Private Message' in an open forum, citing the originator of the 'PM' and also included his name as well.

Bruce Wayne
 

Yep, guilty as charged. thought he was a Bogey (or troll, company spiv, management incurscionist, whatever) and, on reflection, still do.

I think that night_fr8 is a troll, as is I think San Crow may be, jury is out. If I am wrong then apologies will be offered but my thinking goes thus -

an airline with 70% BALPA membership goes for recognition, starts the legal process and airline decides it is going to recognise a VERY minority union, certainly less than 70%. Now ask yourself what smells, the airline or the story?

When I got the PM I responded then I looked back through the posts, I began to think nasty thoughts and posted. I still think it is a lie, I have Googled but cant come up with any announcement of agreement anywhere.

For what is worth, I think that any move like this would be illegal and ANY union could screw them in court, possibly fast-track it, and would lead to the airline being put under greater scrutiny than previously. Not a lawyers response but..........

So no more PMs unless you wish to talk about something that is not meant to lead down the garden path please.

I go back to my substantial reply, ask BALPA.

Wow, this gets dirtier and dirtier, checked my email and there is one from a guy calling ME management. Wash your mouth out.

To all. I do not work in aviation, have nothing to do with it, I am only pissed off at idiots attributing things to unions that are memories from your parent's days. In short, I look for truth.

If some bozo PMs me with what I think is a concocted story I will post it, as I will the one I got tonight, just cant be bothered right now and sender may wish to think again and apologise before I do so. Is RYR getting so desperate?

al446
I have never been management, I am a Line Pilot with over 18000 hours
As a member of this major cargo airline and a very anti BALPA exponent, through personal experience, I am full of anger at your self rightious response.
You were approached in good faith for advice and posted the contents of a PM which breaks all rules of decency.
Typical I might add of a UNITE dyed in the wool trade unionist, who would sell any one down the river for personal gain and kudos.
You have exposed yourself as someone not to be taken seriously, and my advice to those reading this forum is to take what you say with a large pinch of salt.
The company I work for has a 75% plus BALPA membership with a small proportion in the IPF maybe 12% some of which are also BALPA members.
On Friday the company published on their website that they had recognised the IPF whilst BALPA were about to obtain a vote for recognition, thus scuppering any chance of them becoming the union of choice.
(I happen to think that this was a very astute company move)
I was actively seeking advice.
Your actions were like the communist era of the 50's where there were percieved spies under every bed.
I demand a public apology !!

al446 - Why are you sticking your hooter in?

eagerbeaver1
 

Your question is answered in one (or several) of my previous posts as to how I got involved in this thread but, essentially, I was reading alarmist posts stating things that had no basis in truth, misreading the law and dressing (biased) opinion as fact. Several have thanked me for providing clarification. I then got a PM from night_fr8 stating that an airline which had instigated the legal process to recognise BALPA had decided to recognise the IPF, no figures were quoted at the time, and asking if anything could be done about this. I replied in good faith that I had no idea but would look into it. I also added the caveat that I wanted to know who he was as I did not want to be advising the bad guys ie non BALPA. I burn no flame for BALPA but, as a trade unionist, I have no time for renegade unions that act as spoilers for the majority.
I then looked at the sender's previous posts to find that he is very, almost rabidly, anti BALPA and felt that I was being used by the minority interest, or attempted. That is why I posted the PM which has now been removed.

I did state in my reply that I am a steward in Unison, not Unite.

Night_fr8 - You may be as angry as you wish at response. I consider the rules of decency to include non-misrepresentation, no matter how you read your PM it appears to indicate that you feel you have been wronged whereas the opposite seems to be true.
I sold nobody down any river and personal gain and kudos do not interest me, truth, honesty and integrity are better currencies in my view and I did not feel you were dealing in them. I felt an attempt was being made to obtain advice from me that would have been contrary to the stance I have maintained on this thread ie unity of the bargaining unit therefor pro BALPA, especially with 70% membership. The IPF move is divisive.

Given that RYR stooges have tried many ploys on this thread to misinform and influence the debate on this thread I think I am justified in looking at peoples motives, esp those who PM me out of the blue less than candidly. I think I was in this case.

To all. I do not work in aviation, have nothing to do with it.

And yet al446, that doesn't stop you pontificating on a website and thread for aviation professionals. Maybe those 'memories from our parents days' aren't so distant after all.

Night fr8, I wouldn't let those who are full of self righteous self-importance get you annoyed as they aint worth it. By posting your pm, whatever the supposed justification, has just served to prove the type of person you are dealing with.

Saxonbloke
 

I have been consistent in stating that although my background is in aviation, ex RAF, I now have no connection to it other than maintaining a keen interest. However, there is little in UK law to distinguish aviation from any other sector when talking about union recognition, the law applies to all, and that is the subject of this thread. As an active trade unionist of long standing I felt qualified to comment and have explained this several times, read the thread.

Please explain the relevance of that statement.

Latest BAPLA Newsletter.
 

No it isn't, al446, it pertains to Ryanair. Certainly the hilariously misguided and poorly led attempt by BLAPA to secure recognition of our pilot corps lends itself to humourous observations of all sorts, however, may I suggest with the greatest of respect that your unionist background has little of relevance to lend itself to this particular discussion, and less still within the context of the working lives of professional pilots, the cares of which this particular website has dedicated itself to. I'm sure you'll find far greater satisfaction of your curious needs elsewhere.

Norman, my dear, I despair. As much as I've enjoyed your misguided observations from the other side of the Orange divide, a location where you seem to enjoy clawing your way to what one presumes is your perception of the moral high ground, I find it extraordinary that you can still hold a candle for BLAPA when, demonstrably, they are a moribund organisation of little use to anyone, save perhaps British Airways and themselves.

Part of me admires your particular brand of blind loyalty gone mad, despite an overabundance of documented facts to the contrary of your allegiance, but reading you is becoming, more and more, like listening to the quibbling of a maiden aunt. Your ham fisted attempts at ingratiating yourself upon our pilots, though, is neither appreciated or admired and one finds one's self growing weary of your blinkered admiration of BLAPA. Very weary.

Perhaps I might offer, for the consideration and enlightenment of all, a closer look at the machinations from deep within BLAPA, the organisation you claim as your heart's own desire, and the one I call as the coterie of gutless windbags and purveyors of self-interested bull!!!! that I know them to be.

You're looking well, Norman, and I trust appearances are matched in the flesh.

Your pal, Leo.

23rd July 2009
To all Ryanair Members

Dear Member,

• Fighting for pay cuts and job cuts
• Message of support from the Irnanian Electoral Commission
• Campaign update from a Prominent Member
• Second instalment of answers to the 10 irritating questions posed by pesky pilots


Fighting for pay cuts and job cuts.

Following our expert negotiators’ recent successes in winning job and pay
cuts at BA, Virgin, Thomson etc, the campaign for dignified and respectful pay cuts and job losses trundles on. We note that some mischievous types have been trying to play down the success of our pay cut campaign by exaggerating the salaries in other UK airlines. We are glad that our colleague in BALPA Jim McAuslan (General Secretary) has been able to set the record straight in the Sunday Telegraph:

Message of support from the Irnanian Electoral Commission

Salaam my friends! We at the Irnanian Electoral Commission would like to offer our support and brotherly wishes to BAPLA in their campaign to impose their will, eh sorry, I mean to win recognition, in Ryanair. We understand that BAPLA have received petitions from almost all UK bases confirming that Ryanair pilots don’t want recognition or BAPLA interference. We commend BAPLA for their commitment to pushing on with recognition even though it is against the wishes of the people.

Remember that democracy is a wonderful thing when it provides the right
result but when you don’t get the answer you want, sometimes you have to
impose your will. BAPLA should be strong and continue to ignore the will of
Ryanair’s pilots since the Guardian Council at BAPLA know what is best for
Ryanair pilots.

Campaign Update from Dick*, a Prominent Member

Yes, I am a prominent member. I am proud to be a prominent member. You
may not want me to stick my head out but I don’t care, I’m going to do it
anyway. Sometimes its hard to maintain your dignity and respect when you’re a prominent member on display but I don’t care. My colleagues would say to me (if they knew who I was), “what will recognition do for me” or “how will BAPLA get my 5/4 back” and I say, that doesn’t matter – the important thing is maintaining your dignity and respect when you’re a prominent member. If you are interested in becoming a prominent member you should contact BAPLA head office which is full of them.

* names have been changed to protect the incoherent.


United in the Interests of British Airways Pilots

Second instalment of the 10 questions posed by irritating pilots
We’re now so sick of pesky pilots asking us simple questions that we’ve
set out the not-so-straight answers to the remaining five questions below.
Last week we answered the first five questions and we thought that would
get pilots off our backs but you Ryanair pilots are a persistent bunch so
we’ve had to do some work again this week to answer questions six to ten.
It’s going to take a lot of lunches to make up for this.

6. If Ryanair freezes all growth in the UK what can BAPLA do to stop
redundancies, get FOs promoted or get you transferred out of the
UK?

Nothing. Nada. Not a sausage. Capische? Look, we’re only human so
please don’t expect us to change commercial realities. However, in an
extraordinary gesture of solidarity we will be using some of our colossal
£500,000 lunch, travel and entertainment budget to organise a summer
picnic for redundant pilots. Any of you made redundant will be able to meet
your redundant colleagues from BA, Virgin etc and we can all reminisce
about the glory days of aviation and despair at how the unwashed masses
have ruined it for us by demanding lower fares and an end to rip-off
monopolies. The picnic will be organised as soon as we can find a venue
big enough to hold the 1,000+ airline staff who have been made redundant
recently at BALPA recognised airlines.

7. Why would you allow a BA union anywhere near negotiating for
you when they have already agreed the following loser deals:
• 150 pilot redundancies at BA – delivered with “dignity and respect”
• 600 redundancies at Virgin – delivered with “dignity and respect”
• Pay cuts of 5% at Thomson – delivered with “dignity and respect”
• Unpaid leave at EZY– delivered with “dignity and respect”
• 3% pay cut at BA– delivered with “dignity and respect”

Can’t you see that the answer is in the question? Remember that pilots are
BAPLA and BAPLA are the pilots so with all these job cuts we need to
recruit more Ryanair pilots to fund BAPLA. Last year we spent £477,000 on
lunches, travel and entertainment, £410,000 on conferences and affiliation
fees and a whopping £615,000 on pension contributions for BAPLA
employees. Someone needs to fund this lifestyle and since pilots are
BAPLA and BAPLA are the pilots it’s only fair that we raise membership
levels in Ryanair to pay for our conferences, lunches and pensions.

8. How long does Barefaced Terry think the average negotiation
meeting with Ryanair will last – 5 minutes, 5 hours or 5 days. Answers
on a postcard please.

Eh, can we see those postcards?

9. When BAPLA last met Ryanair management in Feb 2003 during the
takeover of Buzz – what did BAPLA achieve with their expert
negotiators, their lawyers and their dignity and respect?

BAPLA wrote to management in Buzz three years ago and they haven’t
replied yet leaving us with no option but to go for an all out strike in Buzz.

10. Why did the 2001 BAPLA recognition campaign fail and why did
the recent 3 year IALPA campaign also fail in Ireland?

Was it because we didn’t have a catchy slogan about “dignity and respect”?
No? Eh, actually we can’t answer that because we’re.....

OUT TO LUNCH

“Lunch before litigation..
...it’s good to talk”
“pensions before pilots”


From BLAPA'S latest published accounts:

• £615,000 spent last year on pensions
for BAPLA employees which is a
modest 26% of salary (nothing like
feathering your own nest for added
comfort!)

• £410,000 spent last year on
conferences and affiliation fees (yes, it
really is good to talk!)

• £477,000 spent on travel, lunches and
entertainment (yum yum, lunch before
litigation!), with just

• £191,000 spent on legal fees
defending pilots (uurgh, boooring).

That's a whopping 11.28% of expenditure in doing what they promise to do by way of looking after the interest of pilots they claim to represent, ladies and gentlemen, or in other words, BLAPA are only good for 11.28% of what you pay them.

When you see that they spend 64.5% of their expenditure on feathering their own nests with sumptuous final salary pension schemes, and lunches out for da boys, I think it plain enough to see where their real interests are.

Dignity and Respect?

Pish and Pshaw.

Leo with the hump
 

This is an axcerpt from the post that kicked the whole thread off.

So

Is totally in keeping with the thread, it appears to be others who have tried to hijack it.

What makes you think I am a Unionist? Wrong noun mate, I suggest a little more tonic and less gin as you compound this in your next para

I don't mind countering argument if needed but to attribute me with political thoughts that I have never even considered and, indeed, find abhorrent is not only to insult me but underlines your total lack of argumentative reasoning. FYI I am a TRADE Unionist, please do not confuse it, you could get in deep doo doo if in Belfast. And I have never been called Norman (where did he get that one).

I am sorry to say that I didn't make it past the para stating

My views in that direction have been posted and if you choose to ignore them that is up to you, it only serves to demonstrate that not only do you post in total ignorance but that your attempts at comedy/satire are based on a false premise. That turns the author from comedian into clown. Next time try irony, it's easier.