Jenny. You either can't or won't see the point. I'm unable to use words with smaller syllables I'm afraid.

DayDreamer. Thanks for SSTR #101. I know why it's done, know it's almost de rigeur these days and I also know that pilots who helped nurture this pox by buying into it are as much to blame as the companies who now see it as an additional income stream. I've discussed this ad nauseaum on here over a decade or so having done fairly well without resorting to it myself so 'life' as you put it still progresses minus the big loans. Not quite sure why you're talking to me about BALPA, no interest to me whatsoever thanks.

"Jenny. You either can't or won't see the point. I'm unable to use words with smaller syllables I'm afraid."

Possibly because you don't have one?

If you are feeling intellectually challenged, perhaps you could work your way up from monosyllables to polysyllables slowly if you wish, though individual syllables generally not very long, just the way they're put together to form longer words that you may be having trouble com-pre-hend-ing.

Playing the player and not the ball again Jenny? I've noticed that about your posts, always seems to happen when you can't keep up.

Never mind treacle. ;)

I agree that every FR pilot should work with the same contract and that it should be a permanent one where you have a basic pay so if you get sick you won't have to work while ill if you still want to pay your bills.
Can a FR pilot choose between the 2?No my friend, permanent contracts are not offered to new recruits.
By the way, I also think that every permanent contracts should be the same in every base and not a colorful mixture of 5/3 or 5/4 or hotel paid here and not there and so on.

Is the company promoting this kind of fair treatment or choice?Not at all.
Is BALPA for such a thing?Definitely yes.
So even a BRK pilot should vote for recognition if he doesn't want to remain a second class citizen and have a voice too.


Jenny,

I'm not a native english speaker but I understand your language enough to summarize your comments in a few words: prolix,inconclusive,rhetoric and very superficial.
Wanna talk about FACTS?Fine, we're all here ready for an adult debate.
Wanna talk cheap chat?Well i'm sure you can find plenty of superficial discussions on the web that will welcome you.

danny, you beat me to it. Instead of contributing anything to the topic all some people do is come here to pick a fight and drag threads off topic.

The matter at hand is of interest to most crew and shouldn't be derailed by someone who begrudges a pilot their salary because they didn't or couldn't qualify as one. In my experience such people are best ignored.

Have to say that you did that with your previous post, merely responded likewise.

Your one man battle over people buying jobs notwithstanding, It does appear that you are the one failing to see the point.

Al Dente, then followed by dannyalliga, equate their "suffering" i.e. employment with an airline that they actively sought, and whether well paid in some cases, or not so well paid in others, is not and can not be considered the same as slavery as they and some others do.

The "facts" that you allude to from dannyalliga do not change this, having to pay out of their wages such things as rent or bills unheard of I know.

You manage to contadict yourself as well somewhat, when after impassioned rants against "paying for jobs", you then say :

"if you compare the personal investment that a pilot and dispatcher make in their careers you'll see why the former expect to earn more"

It is of course their right to spend as much as they like, what they can actually earn is down to their abilities and a certain amount of luck.

Just because somebody has spent a lot of money to get a particular job, doesn't necessarily mean that the job market is able or willing to pay their expectations, it is an investement in themselves, and like any other the value of it can go up as well as down.

In fact you totally agreed with my argument about the fact that nobody was "pressganged" into it earlier:

"Without wishing to appear too blunt you bought your way into the job and now face the consequences. Dine with the devil and all that."


Fail to see where the disagreement started by yourself began to be honest.

Not sure where to start with that one. I know what you're trying to say but it just doesn't read well, does it? Beligerence does seem to be a common trait in your post history though so maybe that's all you're here for. On the offchance that you're remotely interested I'll explain it once more but then I'm off as I've more interesting things to do.

SSTR's are bad. They never used to exist and many of us progressed without having to buy our way up. Someone did, now it's expected and many newbies believe it their divine right to go straight to the RHS of a big jet. They buy their way into a company like Ryanair and are then surprised when they are treated like something on the sole of a manager's shoe.

This quick-fix brigade aside it's not unreasonable for someone who invests a large amount of time and money to expect reasonable remuneration. It's a profession and despite your protests to the contrary £90,000 a year is not really a great deal of money, it certainly doesn't compare with some other professions.

In short we agree that many (not all) RYR crew are the authors of their own misfortune, we don't agree that a pilot's pay or our T&C's are reasonable. I've a theory as to why you feel that way but you don't want to hear it, I certainly can't be bothered to explain it and it would contribute nothing to the topic of this thread.

Night all.

Latest BLAPA Newsletter.
 

I'm delighted you've all met and been charmed by my lovechild, JennyB, but its time to return to the main game. BAPLA have been kneed in the balls yet again by Ryanair pilots. One can only but admire such committment and dedication to serial self-abuse as is so clearly BAPLA's. For an organisation more accustomed to the mutual masturbation that exists between themselves and the Houslow Barons of floundering British Airways, it is perhaps unsurprising. For those of us in shallower orbit, though, may I offer this for your enlightenment, with collegial regards, as always.

Leo.

15th July 2009
To all Ryanair Members

Dear Member,
• Fighting for pay cuts and job cuts
• Update on this week’s lunches
• Dublin IAPLA-BAPLA meeting – “buddy can you spare us a dime?”
• Answers to some of the 10 irritating questions posed by pesky pilots

Fighting for pay cuts and job cuts
Members will be aware of BAPLA’s recent successes in our campaign for dignified and respectful pay cuts and job cuts in UK airlines. We have agreed yet more job cuts at Virgin and just this week we secured a very dignified 3% pay cut at BA. Our professional negotiators are unrivalled at securing the best pilot pay cuts and job cuts in the UK. Everyone at BAPLA headquarters is delighted that we have finally found something we are good at. With professional negotiators like us, why wouldn’t Ryanair want BAPLA?

Update on this week’s lunches
Terry “G&T” Brandon and Jim would like to report that they’ve had several delicious lunches this week. Terry’s favourite dish was a nice cottage pie and Jim’s number one choice was a warm goats cheese salad. Spending on lunches and entertainment this year is going well and BALPA are on track to top the spend of £80,000 in our last published accounts. Yum.

Dublin IAPLA-BAPLA meeting – “buddy can you spare us a dime?”
Following IAPLA’s three year failed campaign to impose recognition in Ireland, Terry will be attending a lunch in Dublin with IAPLA to share in the secrets of their success. IAPLA’s failed strategy cost Dublin pilots share options, pay increases and left them on a 5/3 roster for longer than any other Ryanair base while they refused to negotiate with the company. Oh yeah and don’t forget the free training that Dublin pilots paid 15 grand for, on IAPLA’s advice that they would win it back. At BAPLA we are all hopeful that we can match IAPLA’s track record of broken promises. IAPLA’s campaign cost them over a million quid in legal fees so they may well charge a fee for any advice they give us. We trust that you will understand IAPLA’s need for a financial contribution from UK pilots after they shelled out a million quid to cover Ryanair’s legal costs.

Answers to the 10 questions posed by irritating pilots

Pilots have been contacting BAPLA seeking answers to 10 questions about our pay cut campaign. So far we’ve managed to dodge these questions and avoid doing any work but we’re sick of being asked so it’s time to set the record partly straight; this week’s instalment covers questions one to five.

1. What’s BAPLA’s plan to regain your 5/4 roster and the £5,000 allowance when they disappear along with the current ERC deal?
Well, first we’re going to ask really nicely. If that doesn’t work then we’re out of ideas so remember, you are BAPLA and ultimately it will be your fault. So when things go wrong and we can’t get your 5/4 roster or allowances back we’ll remind you that it’s your problem, not ours. Besides, under the current ERC deals Ryanair pilots have pay deals and rosters that are better than those in any other UK airline. After we succeed in destroying those deals why should BAPLA fight to make sure Ryanair pilots are better off than the rest of our membership?
United in the Interests of British Airways Pilots

2. Will BAPLA confirm that those UK bases who do not wish to be part of this recognition campaign will be afforded the “dignity and respect” not to be included?
Absolutely not. We’ve already received petitions from the majority of UK bases which confirm that pilots don’t want this campaign but that’s irrelevant. Even though BAPLA is the pilots and the pilots are BAPLA (except for Terry Brandon who’s from the G&T union) that doesn’t mean that we listen to pilots, although we will not listen with respect.

3. What is BAPLA’s plan when they fail to agree anything with Ryanair?
Mmmmmmm. We’ll ask really nicely again? Just remember; if you end up with a pay cut or you lose your job you can rest assured that BA and Virgin pilots will feel your pain. You might also consider participating in the IAPLA “TAILSPIN” scheme which invests pilot money in Aer Lingus shares and lunches. Remember that the value of this investment may go down as well as even further down… until the banks ask you for more money to fund your part in this bird brained scheme.

4. If Ryanair makes a business decision to close a minimum of 2 UK bases and expand elsewhere in Europe – how will BAPLA ensure you are not made redundant?
We will immediately deploy our professional negotiator who will, with dignity and respect, demand that Ryanair reopen these bases. If Ryanair don’t agree then we’ll walk out the door to lunch with our heads held high, confident that we have salvaged your dignity and respect, even if you’re unemployed.

5. Why has BAPLA failed to negotiate a 5/4 roster in Easyjet or any other UK airline?
Who needs a 5/4 roster when you’ve got dignity and respect. Just ask the pilots at BA, Virgin, Thomson and Easyjet. We’re too busy with our fight for pay cuts and job cuts to talk about things like rosters, lifestyle, families etc. Remember that we are all BAPLA and we are all pilors (except Jim who’s not a pilot and Terry who’s from the electrician’s union) so our failure is your failure.

“Lunch Before Litigation”
From our latest published accounts:
• £477,000 spent last year on lunches, travel and entertainment (Wahey, thanks guys!) while we spent just
• £191,000 on legal fees defending pilots (boooring)

BAPLA incorporating • British Airlines Less Pilots Association • British Airlines Lost Promotions Association • British Airlines Low Pay Association

DANNYALLIGA,
"to those 5000 you should subtract car park, uniforms, hotels, loss of license, pension scheme, transportation to/from sims....and considering we fly more hours/year that any other airline in the business (up to the max legal limit of 900) I cannot blame some of us feeling treated like slaves if compared to other colleagues doing the same job.
Go and ask any BA/LH/AF/KL/IB/EZ etc. Capt what his net take home would be flying 900 hours/year and also ask him about his benefits.
See where modern slavery starts now?"

Car park is a few hundred quid. I pay mine in one go £120. Not really breaking the bank.
Uniforms - well if your mummy likes to change your uniform every term, fine, but most of us will have on that lasts for a good few years. £80 for the jacket, £20 for a pair of black trousers, £5 for a white shirt?...You make it sound like its a constant expense?
Loss of licence/pension - ill give you them.
Transportation to and from the sim...you having a laugh? If you're in the UK - ill presume you are as you are posting on a thread about UK based pilots - then either drive, which in my car costs around 8pence per mile, or get the train. Or get the bus which is super cheap. And again you are making out that its a constant expense. Im sorry mate but if you are trying to convince me that Ryanair treat me as a slave then you are going to have to do a lot harder.
Its very difficult but I can just about survive my 5/4 (which I fly 4 or 5 of!), my hard commute of 20 mins to my base, my month off plus my 2 blocks of 10 days, plus any other days I wish to take off, last few months been clearing £4000 net, this month and next I requested out of base - been granted 3 weeks working 5 days every week so next two months ill be clearing a considerable amount more.
Life is so very very hard.

TRSS,

Just to clarify something, at this moment in time BALPA is not taking votes on Recognition.

What they are in fact doing is something that makes sense.
They are taking an indiciative ballot of all the RYR BALPA and petition sign up members to see if we RYR PILOTS still want them to continue.

Stop changing things to suit yourself, there has been no actual vote on recognition yet, the only vote that may occur if we have decided we want one is a secret vote, where no one (including yourself) will know who votes what at any point in time.

So we await with interest the result.

Wow Command B, what type of car are you driving? I think the last time I checked the TOTAL cost of driving the average car over an average of about 12,000 miles per year was in the region of 35/40 pence per mile! It's not just petrol, you have to take into account all the other ongoing costs such as insurance, tax, maintenance and, of course, depreciation etc.

AA Running Cost Tables

T668,

Just to clarify something, a ballot is a vote, poll, a round of voting. You can change the name and add "indicative" - but it is still the same dog.

So it's OK by you for BALPA to organise a vote, ballot, poll but when the pilot's organise their own vote to " see if we RYR PILOTS still want them to continue" that, somehow, lacks credibility. It also neatly sidesteps the BRK pilots too.

Oh, and don't bother trotting out the glib excuse that the voters could be identified: the same holds for the poll on the BALPA website:

now slime shoddy,you simply cannot be so stupid to believe that a ballot or whatever you conducted in ema under company duress and intimidation is going to be a true indication of pilots wishes.when you were doing the rounds demanding pilots sign up to your union busting anti balpa campaign,you obviously did not listen to those who said they were not interested in your efforts to deliver yourself the base tre job by licking managements ass.all any pilot has to do tho get you off their back is sign your pathetic attempt to become the company big man in ema and then vote balpa when the time comes.

any truth in the word that ryanair union busting management called all the ema pilots into a room and threatened them that they would never get another break from the company if they voted for balpa recognition?

from what i can glean on the line,your good self is only anti balpa because you got kicked out of another airline for valid reasons and your former pro balpa self turned benedict when balpa could not jutify your actions?

Dim,

you should be writing fairytales; your talent for making up stories is wasted here.

"Company duress and intimidation" - throw some fairy story around and hope that someone will fall for it.

Your gleanings are patently wrong too!

An over active imagination, dear boy, but then you probably believe in BALPA and the Tooth Fairy, but you would have more luck sticking with the Tooth Fairy!

You really have lost any shred of credibility you may have clung to now!

more evasion of the facts.i take it that in your determination to avoid answering my last questions particularly about your past and ass licking of present,you acknowledge that the statements are true.you must think that pro union pilots are devoid of communication and content to let you do you wish,to the detriment of the pilot body.you good sir are living in cloud cuckoo land.i am interested to see how management deal with you when you fail to deliver the union busting deal you have done with them.

Slim the time you spend on here is inversely proportional to your objectivity.
So now you're trying to tell us there is no intimidation?Do you want me to remind you the memo that came out about closing bases,freezing upgrades and transfers, going to 5/2 and so on?


Command B,

I might not be UK based, I might be say one of those VLC pilots who had to move his family overnight to a different country loosing my rent deposit (a couple of thousands euros) and then start a 6on/2off week because of my sim in EMA where I got flying to LTN late afternoon and then having to drive 2 hours (with a rentalcar paid by myself) to EMA; oh and since the Donington Race was on and every hotel/B&B in the area were taken I had to book (by myself) a hotel in a town about 50 miles away (hotel paid by myself).
Then maybe I even got a fair in the sim by somebody who had no idea I had been up for almost 24 hours, driving for miles and had to arrange everything by myself not considering that the only food I was able to buy in the 10 hours preceeding my sim was a sandwich at a gas station.

Some of you seem to have a cozy life living one block away from their mothers and two from the crew room, but you guys forget there are 33 bases scattered around Europe with about 3000 of us from many different countries each of them with their own story to tell.
And those stories are often not as happy as you guys would like to hear.


By the way, I do like to change my uniform more often than once in "a good few years" like you do...the way you look tells everyone about the way you are.
And I definitely don't want to be like you....

slime shoddy benedict - likes to change his uniform only when he gets the boot out of other companys.you would think then that he might look a bit more presentable,scruffy scrote.

Mr Slim's not getting too much support so far, time to add a little.

Despite what the pro BALPA lot believe, most UK based Ryanair pilots want nothing to do with any union. The action taken at these bases proves this, mine included. Which is probably why you're all getting so upset, why can't you understand that a lot of us do not want the union?

Just as you have your opinion, we have ours. There really is no point trying to persuade either party to change their minds because they're already made up. I accept some people want BALPA, so why won't you all accept that a lot of us don't?

Keep it up Dim.

You have run out of rational argument, know that BALPA have lost this fight and like the bully in the playground have nothing left but to resort to personal attacks.

The more vitriolic you are the better: it just lets everyone see the true colour of the BALPA hardliner's mettle.

There you are folks: just because someone DARES to hold an opposing view Dim Repa feels he has every right to be abusive.

What a sad ambassador for any union you are.

slime - you are entitled to your opinion.what you do not have the right to is to make some deal with management for selfish advancement on the back of delivering a union busting deal to management.you still have not answered my questions.maybe you are,like your missus,happy to move on now that you think you have delivered your base to the management on a plate and you don't feel you need to justify yourself.maybe you think you are superior to pilots in general.

bluff - "most uk pilots want nothing to do with a union",i take it you are speaking for uk RYANAIR pilots and if so how many uk pilots are in ryanair.how do you know what the majoritys opinions are and for what reasons do you not wish to have union recognition?

the grim repa - as a secret admirer of your excellent work over many years, I can only commend you for your continued fight in the face of staggering foolishnesh. Reading some of these posts just blows my brain. There is none so blind as thems that will not see - nonetheless you need to persist. I simply refuse to believe that there are not a majority of pilots within the UK arm of Ryanair who do not want union recognition. Just reading Leo's posts should send anyone who can write their own name scurrying off to download a membership application form. As I have said before, magnificent and entertaining as he undoubtedly is, Leo is the most consistent pilot on PPruNe - he is consistently wrong on every single issue he speaks on. Sadly, his less educated acolytes who drool on his every word are notably less erudite in their discussions and even less informed - if such a thing were possible. I can only hope that there is a silent majority there in Ryanair who, when faced with a genuinely secret ballot, will actually step up to the plate. Keep up the good work.

Grim

Its so sad that because you appear to be on the side of a LOST cause that you have resorted to the infantile tactic of running a person down.
It is of little interest or concern to many about the previous existence of RSS, so kindly cut out this type of personal attack.

The fact that you are in a very vocal minority, who are now slinging mud shows us here how things will be should BALPA get into any position with Ryanair.

You have shown your true colours, and probably lost more support by doing so, than if you had kept to a reasoned argument.

There are more here posting that they do not want BALPA than the diehards who do.
Can you not get the message that there are more in favour of the current status quo than BALPA representation ?

Have you considered that some of those you fly with might just be agreeing with you so as to shut you up, having got very bored with your continual Bleating.

It takes a bigger man to admit he is wrong than to continually fight a loosing corner.

Take some advice back off for a year or two, then try again when the economy and airline fortunes improve.

Good post Day Dreamer. :ok:
The changing of Handles on here in order to be insulting is not becoming of any of the posters status and certainly doesn't add anything to the discussion. :ouch:
Look guys, we all want the best rewards for our efforts in order to have a great life and provide for our loved ones. Working less hours and having more pay with a better pension pot would be great. The market decides what the remuneration for a Pilot is. A crude method yes, but time tested.
Ryanair state that they will not deal with unions. Simples!
The UK is but one country of half a dozen that Ryanair have bases in.
Any Ryanair crew room could be emptied before lunch and flown to another country to be fully set up in the afternoon. The passengers can be advised of time changes by email.
The cost of change is negligible. Is it right? Is it fair? Is it possible?
Just wait for BA, VA to start recruiting again and get yourselves the job you crave. :)

Grim, for what it's worth, your request for an answer to your questions of Slim would not be the ones that you want to read. Sorry, but that's the truth.

Vexed

"I know from the guys and girls I fly with on the line that we are far better than that"

Yes you are better than that, BUT are you prepared to have an open vote of ALL pilots RYR and BRK as to their feelings towards a BALPA represented company ?

Also are you prepared to allow a base closure, which I feel will happen should say a smaller base vote for recognition ?
With the loss of Jobs all positions, Pilots, Cabin Crew, Engineers, Ground Staff etc along with the knock on effects to their families.

All this will be on the conscience of those voted yes, which will be more representative if ALL pilots were allowed to express their opinions, not just a select few.

It must be obvious to all who read this site that excluding a large and getting larger number of pilots from the vote is undemocratic, just because they are considered as contractors. (Another topic of discussion)

Your case would hold much more weight, if an open non partisan vote was to be carried out at each base.
Under these circumstances should a base vote for BALPA and subsequently be closed they collectively would only have themselves to blame.

BALPA are feeding you their data, which may or not have substance but from what I read and hear from many RYR pilots they will not risk their careers or the futures of their families for a few promises that things might improve / change in the future. (Nothing is immediate in the union world)

Now is not the time to go down this road, whilst no time is particularly a good time, the current economic climate and job market will not allow you (BALPA) to call the managements bluff, the cost is too great.

No first wave departures from the UK and that will be no problem! Get a grip of yourself! Seriously! The company are making money so why the the hell would they get rid of the already established infrastructure and shift everyone elsewhere? Unlike the BRK guys there are loads of Ryanair guys in the UK and so under contract which means moving them will come to an expense! Hell I dont want to see Ryanair go under or have a drop in profit but for god sakes talk to us! Dont Just implement a programme of self destruction!

Command B..
Ok.. i pay about 20 quid for a pilot shirt.. care to share where you are getting them from ???? :ok:

5 Quid a shirt, 8 pence a mile. . what next ? the best paid pilots in Europe (I suppose :hmm: )
At least try and sustain an unsustainable argument wıth 'vaguely' sustainable facts as a matter of courtesy to your audience. :=

Vexed, this is perectly put.

And that shows how defenseless RYR (not to mention BRK pilots) are. They are at the mercy of reckless management.

We're talking about real people here. People with families, kids. And about a company with tons of cash and leading millionnaires telling staff they can be out at first cough, with its chain reaction of miserable lives for entire families.

Ryanair is a hot rod for BALPA, certainly not a lost issue.

Unfrozen hole in the UK summer freeze.. didn't see that one coming! No, really!
 

Divide and Conquer... about 20+ direct entry rated captains from ex gone-bust airlines, mostly English, given STN as a base on permanent contract.

Let's all take that surprised face again! Lads, time to stop this! Now is the time, not tomorrow. BALPA - Home

If some of those new guys could enlighten us what their deal is (pay, roster, base), please share it here or pm. This is nothing personal but would love to know.

Any other info welcome, thanks.

captplaystation,
8p per mile - is exact. I have worked it out. As for which car I drive....its a secret but its fast and got great MPG!! :ok: £5 per pilot shirt, yup. You just have to look around.

Dannyalliga,
Yes there are 33 bases. Unfortunately the guys on here are only discussing 10 of them. Uk ones. No offence but if you were up for 24 hours travelling before your sim, thats your fault. I suggest either travelling at least a day before OR if this isnt possible, ringing Angela at EMA to sort it out. Ive never had a problem and they've always been more than helpful if its been a problem getting to EMA.
In regards to your last paragraph, I change my uniform too - but your missing the point. You make it sound like its some sort of monthly expense. Of course I buy new uniform, just not every month mate!
Oh and by the way, resorting to "i dont want to be like you" - Thats really cheered me up and made me laugh for a good 5 minutes! :} Run back to your mummy my friend. This isnt the school playground. :mad:

Command B - I suggest you recheck your calculations!

This is what the AA publish:-

Motoring Costs

Unless maybe you're running a moped?

Anyway......no matter what the cost we should not be paying for it, whether it's for uniform, travel, hotels on company time, phone calls while on duty to sort out a tech problem, medical and on and on.

Vote for a change in a positive way.

The alternative is the self centered slime way............

base closure/capacity reduction
 

Balpa will NOT close ryanair bases,economics will.

Recession to Hit Ryanair This Winter - GLG News

Before you get put on the transfer list.Protect yourself,Join BALPA,Vote for union recogntion!!!

I'm a bit confused by some of the contents of Leo's - once again anonymous - anti union tirade. It says that BALPA are proud to have negotiated pay cuts in various airlines and on the back of that they invite more members. From what I hear the RYR pilots have taken significant cuts in T's & C's WITHOUT negotiations. It might be that those other airlines had forward thinking employees who would rather tighten belts to save jobs and share some pain. However, they were asked about it. From what is written on here the RYR pilots had a fait accompli to take a cut. The 2 qtrly losses which allowed such a move were not created by crews. They were working in the 105m euro profit making bit. The other loss making bit was firmly camped in mission control. Again: there was no discussion! I hear it was option 1 or 2 both decided by management, and if no choice was made you'd get whichever the bosses wanted to impose. How does that fall into the category of direct negotiations with employees?
Please enlighten us as to how poor/lacking communications and enforcement can be a good manner in which to conduct industrial relatons in 21st century. Once again please tell us which group of employees has conducted industrial sucide recently, and more specifically airline crews. Don't be so cras. And in airlines where CRM and transparency of decision making is thrust down our throats at every chance, and where it is considered absolutely wrong to conduct work planning in a dictatorial manner, I find it disappointing that a management, and some of its supporters, can advocate such a working enviroment so contrary to what they preach. A little less hypocrasy please.

A fine post RAT.

Don't hold your breath for a reasonable response.

Hypocracy
 

By now you should know that you won't get a rational answer from LEO or from MOL for that matter....

From a recent Ryanair Flight Safety bragging notice:

....Yet with Union recognition we are threatened with a flight safety busting change of rostering from fatigue mitigating to fatigue causing....

Go figure....

Hypocrites

Day Dreamer
 

So far, so tedious. I have explained this before but here goes -

Your 1st point - The law does not allow it, if you read the rest of the thread I posted a link which takes you to a precis of the law which states that the ballot for recognition will be within the bargaining unit ie RYR pilots.

Base closure? MOL also said they would be charging for toilets but I don't see it yet. I explain earlier in the thread why even he would not commit commercial suicide. No base will be able to be identified in the country wide secret ballot. Please read this several times until you understand.

ALL RYR pilots will be able to secretly express their view, just wont be BRK. This is because of a fact that may sit uncomfortably with you which is that RYR is not their employer, their contract of employment is with BRK, a registered contracting company which they state proudly on their website, Google it. Sorry to burst your bubble, you'll get over it. If you want to be that inclusive you could poll the pax as well. What you propose is illegal.

Why dont you anti union people just accept that you have run out of arguments and are retreading old ones?

al446,

BRS has 18 routes, 6 to other bases.

That allows the 6 bases to send an aircraft in to BRS first thing in the morning and W pattern to another 6 airports.

That's 12 of the 18 covered: the smaller destinations aren't served daily,hence 6 aircraft based elsewhere can W through BRS and cover all the existing routes.

Is that commercial suicide?

Yes yes yes, wıth the notable exceptıon of that partıcularly thorny thorn ın the sıde STN, he could probably, ın a fıt of 'toys out of pram rage', close them all.
But ıf ıt made sense to open them, then they would only be closed anyhow ıf they don't work commercıaly :rolleyes:. Or, are you really tellıng (threatenıng :hmm: ) us that hıs overall bıg pıcture would allow hım to be so crass as to close profıtable bases just to make a poınt to the encumbent trotskys that he could ?
That would make the fuel hedgıng & ıll fated Lıngus adventure seem lıke mere lapses of reason, as opposed to totally losıng the plot. Threaten all you want, but untıl the ballot you won't know ıf people are actually prepared to take hıs threats serıously anymore. Personally, I thınk he may have crıed 'wolf' once too often, and the sackıng of JA smacked of the actıons of a desparate team who had to ınjure just to be awarded extra tıme.