Were you to read the contributions of others, al446, rather than your own and the feeble responses to them, you would recognise as other PILOTS have done, that my reference in the second quote of my last post and all that follows from it, was to Norman Stanley Fletcher, a pilot.
Projection is such a third rate method of attack, al446. For the record, I despise gin. It reeks of failure and regret. Rather like yourself. Farewell friend.

Leo got the hump
 

Strange that, I must have missed other PILOTS posts asserting such in their posts since my last one. Will get my computer looked at.

Glad to read that you steer clear of the gin now so your demeanour must have some other explanation. Failure and regret? No failures round here of late other than the weather but will take myself off soon to alleviate that, NOT on RYR. Regrets?, I've had a few but too few to mention.

I will have to take your word on third rate methods of attack as you seem to have greater knowledge in that area, I prefer first rate methods like truth and responding to the points actually raised in debate.

I will try to do something about the aroma but find that the scent of success is hard to lose. I will bid you farewell before you toddle off to the oasis for a good spit.

what a load of !!!!.

can't believe i just spent half hour reading these posts, that's time i wont get back.

al446, what's it got to do with you?

al446
 

? Mind your own business, please stay away from things you dont know ANYTHING about, please !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you all
 

I expected some rabid views to emerge and sure enough they are here but also had a pleasant surprise.

Bongle, what more could I expect of you looking through your past postings, you react to the idea of BALPA like a rabid dog does to water, I will answer the question "what's it got to do with you?" at the end of this post.

UK Viking, I note that you were still 2 years into training at end of June so I hardly think qualifies you as expert in anything, especially industrial relations and recognition of unions, you may drive a big pointy thing worth many beer tokens but it does not make you the font of all knowledge. That is an attitude known as arrogance. At the end of the day you are an employee, albeit trainee, and RYR is a hard headed business that views you as a commodity to be used and possibly mistreated according to their business needs. You are expendible if need be and any tears will be either your own or crocodile ones. We have PROPER unions in order to combat or ameliorate this. Hence my stance despite my reservations about BALPA.

Now, what's it got to do with me? see my previous posts. I get a PM from some bozo seeming to ask how to fight pre-emptive recognition of another union when BALPA have made a case for recognition and, on looking at previous posts, he turns out to be from the opposite camp. I do not react well to attempts to con me.

Imagine my surprise when I get a PM from another RYR pilot tonight, a guy who had previously sent me a castigating PM over posting night_fr8's PM, saying he had over reacted and was with me on this. He gives permission to post but I wont as he is a BRK guy but realises he should get behind his RYR colleagues.

I do note in all that posted to flame me on this a certain lack of intelectual rigour in argument, vitriol does not quite work on the net.

Leo:I think you meant to say in your last sentence with ref to gin 'It reeks of failure and regret' instead of I....!

b/rgds

al 446

Now you are calling Night_Fr8 a bozo !!!
As a shop steward do you think the sun shines out of your fundamental orifice.

I agree that you should give Night_Fr8 a PUBLIC apology on this site and the sooner the better.

We do NOT want idiots like you defaming colleagues who were simply asking for advice.
The airline in question has been trying for BALPA recognition for over a year, and the company without consultation recognised the IPF and announced it to the crews on Friday.

Your lack of research and failure to obtain accurate information is typical of your level of unionism (I suppose your told by your wife to vote labour)

Kindly leave this site to the aviation professionals for which it was intended.

I understand that an approach has been made to the moderator concerning your response to Night_Fr8. And I would support you exclusion from this site.

I am not anti union but do not believe in BALPA's sole right to represent the pilots in this industry.

Day Dreamer
 

All dictionary definitions of bozo I have read say stupid or foolish person. I received an unsolicited PM from someone who appeared to be purporting to be from the BALPA side of the argument asking for advice of an apparently pro BALPA nature. When I checked his previous posts he turned out to be of the opposite stripe. It is a stupid or foolish person who does not think I will do this.

My position as a steward is irrelevant, both to here and in everyday life, I have stated who I am to avoid any confusion in discussions on here, I have never made any claims of superiority, nor would I, in any area of knowledge especially legal, which is ultimately the area this thread is about.

In terms of research, if you look back you will find it was I who posted link to Thompson's guide to the law regarding TU recognition which destroyed alot of myths various posters were trying to weave. Would that count as research and obtaining accurate information? Where I have been less than rigorous in pursuing that research I have apologised and explained myself.

You are being somewhat presumptious about the voting pattern of my wife and I, union members come from many different political stripes. As I remember it, Norman Tebbit was chairman of BALPA prior to standing for parliament, no socialist he. Besides, who said anything about my wife in the context of this present dispute. She didn't receive the PM and has had nothing to do with this. If we are talking apology then I think you are the one who should be issuing one for that crass comment.
As you seem to have been reading my post history or have a good memory could you please indicate where I have posted stating support for any political party. I have assiduously tried to avoid it.

I join you in that I do not believe in BALPA's sole right to represent the pilots in your industry.Nor do I think that a company in which BALPA has acheived 70% membership and followed the letter of the law undermine the spirit of that law by recognising a minority union without consultation and subvert that legal process that, paradoxically, was put in place to provide protection against this kind of industrial bullying. It is up to BALPA to challenge the legallity of this move.

The mods must make whatever decision they will, I consider that I acted honestly and transparently in response to a, to my mind, dishonest and disguised request. If the mods look at my incoming PMs they will see from the latest of 03/08/09 22.26 is in support of me and only thinks I jumped the gun in calling night_fr8 management. What I actually meant was RYR management as that tactic is not unknown on this site. For that I do apologise but think my suspicion was justified in the circumstances.

Yor point about aviation professionals is noted but I have covered this several times. I have also advocated that you RYR pilots should ask the mods for a private forum however I think in this case ie employment law a narrowing of the pool of knowledge would not be in your best interests unless you wish to dress opinion as fact and spread disinformation, both of which I have seen in this thread. In the context of this thread would you also exclude Flying Lawyer who, as far as I am aware, holds only a PPL?

I presume that you can provide incontrovertible evidence to substantiate that comment?

Or are you simply offering the benefit of your not inconsiderable opinions again?

TRSS
 

Sorry, what I should have written was "What I actually meant was RYR management or their stooges"

As I remember you posted that you had management approval to campaign against BALPA in work time. Does the cap fit well?

Apologies for any misunderstanding.

I was heartened and surprised to receive an email today from another PPruner who has asked for anonimity, which I will respect, parts of which I would post, being careful to avoid inclusion of identification but alas, cut n paste does not allow easy formatting in this forum. I will paraphrase and, if mods wish me to justify myself I will forward the email. He writes first to apologise for not posting on the forum but feels, due to past actions that he is a marked man within RYR as he has the cojones to stand up to bullying management. He joins me in a belief in honesty and fairness and a thorough dislike of bullies. Something his management view as anathema. He also asks that I am sparing in quoting from him as he sees himself as easily identifiable so I will. The spirit of the rest of the email is in support of my putting forward views that are "ones that I would be happy to read anytime"

So in my considered view, or opinion if you like, a PM a day from the RYR pilot community in support may indicate that the anti BALPA camp has got its calculations wrong. Rather than try to frighten people into keeping their head down and closing your ears to argument maybe actually addressing the issues would be an idea. But bullies dont do that, do they?

al 446

I see you have not given an apology to Night_Fr8., which he so rightly deserves.

Also you say that you are receiving PM's from RYR pilots, why are you not posting them as they have given permission.
Probably you wife has not given you hers to go out and spread your Unionist CR...

Mind you that is what I expect from a lowly ERK, hiding behind his unionist beliefs.

Day_Dreamer
 

That is your viewpoint, I am not convinced.

Here is an exercise in comprehension - read the above and tell me where it states that permission is granted to publish. The one I received yesterday did give me permission to publish but there was a tone of uneasiness about it so I decided not to. As I posted, if the mods wish to look they should have access to my PMs. I don't tell lies. Night_fr8 did not indicate that his PM was not free for publication so I posted it. It appears to have been taken down by the mods.

The rest of your post seems to be more of the vaccuous drivel I have become used to.

Another of your inventions 446?

Why not take the advice of the others and toddle off.

al 446

In case you are too Thick to understand ALL PM's are to be considered Confidential unless otherwise indicated.

Put 2 + 2 together and this time make 4.
I know who Night_Fr8 is and he is just another Captain working for that company, trying to make sense of the situation, asking for advice from a trade unionist who might have had the answer.

That apology is now the right thing to do, be a Man and admit you were wrong, this may restore some of your credability on this site.

Enough on this topic as its taking the track away from the RYR Thoughts.

Should any others of you out there support an apology for Night_Fr8 flood al446 PM's with your message until he capitulates

shady
 

from 8th July (post 326 I think)

Day Dreamer

Make up your mind for gawdsake, leave it alone or have a go, which is it? Final sentence seems to be standard bully tactic "Besiege the unbeliever"

Anything I have written I have always considered may be published or be up for scrutiny. If anyone has made a misjudgement it appears to be the original sender.

And where does it say on "work time" ?

Slipped that one quite nicely: all invented of course!

Now be a good little Union chap and apologise to Night fr8.

al 446

Typical response and sidestep from a trade unionist !!!

Will not admit that he is wrong even when given proof that his interpretation of the facts is in error.

It appears that reason and understanding is not in your repetoire.

As for the last line of my post, many pilots will understand that this type of action will show you the error of your ways.

Simple Shady - look back through the thread and your post was made in the context of colleagues being sick and tired, not to mention distracted, of your diatribes on the FD of an anti BALPA type. It was in the context of a captain being dismissed for pro union activities. Not slipped in, simply observation. And certainly NOT invention - you posted it.

Day Dreamer - I have no idea what a typical response of a trade unionist is, depends on the argument I suppose, but generally I would have thought it is to look at the facts of the matter and, so far, you have put forward no 'proof', only opinion -yours. That I choose not to accept it is a matter for you, I wont lose sleep over it.

As for the last line of your post, are you saying many pilots employ the kind of bullying tactic you advocate? We should be told.

al446, the union stooge....you just don't get it do you.

You make things up: you don't know what happened / happens on any flightdeck, let alone mine: you can't grasp the simple truth that your biased and fabricated comments aren't welcome here.

Take your interest in aviation and join the spotters or stick to your flight sim and leave the real metal to the likes of Day dreamer and Night Fr8 who know what they are talking about.

quote from The Real Slim Shady

So Slim, are you suggesting that this thread should just be for pilots only ?

Slim might not be, but I certainly am.

What does it say on the header at the top of the page ?

I agree this is a site for professional pilots.

However we should not restrict to pilots only, the team is far more complex than that, it includes or should include any employee in the aviation field.
We have seen media hacks and persons like al446 enter this environment seeking to obtain information and offer opinions for which they are certainly not qualified.

We do not live in a perfect world and there are many who post here who do so in such a manner as to provoke rather than advise or council.

Having spent many years in the industry, I have seen unionists who are so myopic that they would rather see the company they work for be closed down than compromise their unionist ideals. (I am all right jack syndrome)
Others are more reasonable, but i have yet in 36 years to see the main pilot union BALPA work for anything other than BA or the BALPA self interest.

More has been done by local company councils working with management than via unionism.
We have seen here the posting of a unionist (al446) and if you think that this is the type of person you wish leading you in negotiations, by all means bring in a union into whatever company you work for.

There will always be self interest union or not but for me a moderate approach has always proved more effective.

Support an apology for Night_Fr8

This section "Ryanair Thoughts" has now gone off topic can we please get back on topic or close this thread.

Well said Day Dreamer.

I second your final comment.

Comedy Central meets Bullshit Central.
 

Alright Daydreamer, I'll try, if you'll permit me.

BLAPA FAILS MISERABLY..... again.

CAMPAIGN FOR RECOGNITION AT RYANAIR SINKS WITHOUT TRACE.

July 17th was to have been the date by which the "representative ballot" was concluded thus providing BLAPA with an indication of just how many Ryanair pilots want them to act at their behest. Well, July 17th has come and gone, and so too have BLAPA. In fact, so underwhelming was the response that BLAPA have made another of their trademark retreats, tail between legs, but they lack even the most rudimentary standards of decency, honesty and moral courage in declaring their abject failure for what it is in truth, preferring to rebrand it. No surprises so far.

From the latest communiqué to emerge from BLAPA Bull!!!! Central...
Oh really? In every way, it is ENTIRELY relevant. You are utterly useless in other airlines and would have been useless at Ryanair, just a lot wealthier. You seek to persuade intelligent, educated men and women airline pilots as to your efficacy, and yet in the next breath encourage us to ignore your conduct through every airline stained by that special BLAPA magic, as being not relevant? Hilarious! It is central to your argument. An argument you have lost…again.

That's as may be, but what IS truly stunning is the extent to which you abandoned XL in their hour of need with a "roadshow" at only one base (LGW) and then your proudest hour. Surely, an apotheosis of union efficacy in the case of XL? That's right, ladies and gentlemen, BLAPA have used some of their tiny 11% pilot protection budget on launching a class action legal case for wrongful dismissal.....from a bankrupt airline in the hands of receivers! Wow! That’ll learn ‘em.

I can see it now. BLAPA the movie, starring the puppets from Team America. Trey Parker and Matt Stone couldn't come up with a more side-splitting script than the muppets at BLAPA manage every day. But what's this? Surely there's not more of this doublespeak?

For those of you unfamiliar with BLAPA-speak, permit me to translate.

"We've screwed the pooch again, boys and girls. The majority of UK Ryanair bases have written to us saying they don't want us, even Stansted where we thought we were quids-in, have told us no thanks, and so we've got to head for the hills and regroup. Don't worry though, by saying no we realise you really mean yes, just like a horny housewife in a bad mood, and so rougher than usual handling is called for. We'll call ya, but don't forget to keep up those subscription fees. We need them now more than ever. BLAPA is you and you are BLAPA.” Yarda yarda yarda.

BLAPA Strategy items.

Good one! A strike in the middle of the greatest recession in the history of flight. Too bad the operation would march on regardless, thank to BRK. You remember BRK don’t you? The same lot of pilots that you and the Dwarf of county Wicklow dropped in the shyte with the tax authorities? Payback’s a bitch, ain’t it?
:rolleyes: Yeah, right. You just don't understand "no", apparently.
I wouldn't hold my breath, if I were you.

But just when I thought they were getting all morose and serious again, out comes the comedy team, regular as clockwork. I just don't think they can help themselves. Clearly, a missed calling in stand up comedy.
Really? Obviously, BRK haven't read that particular TUC poll, and neither have my bank manager or accountant. Pay discrimination? Now I know you're on crack. The BRK contract is the most lucrative pilot contract on earth. If that's your idea of pay discrimination, BLAPA, bring it on.
Sorry chum, we're too busy counting our money.
From mummy and daddy, I presume? And who's your daddy? Oh that's right, I nearly forgot. Here's a little hint for those who may have forgotten.

For those without a soul, you should begin one minute and 19 seconds in. For the rest of us, enjoy it all including the gorgeousness that is Anna Netrebko.



Bye bye for now, BLAPA.

See you in three years, or when the stupid gene comes to the shallow end of the Ryanair gene pool once more.

Quote (originally posed by Aldente)

to which the reply was :-

Perhaps, Bruce Wayne, you might like to ask the same question of The Real Slim Shady (as he has chosen rather conveniently to ignore my question) about his other half, Mrs Slim Shady (aka Abusing the Sky), who was particularly vociferous on here a few weeks back ....


:)

Aldente

Please don't be offended, ATS is cabin crew with Ryanair, and as the actions of muppets from BLAPA would, had they had more than a snowball's chance in Hell of getting even recognised walking through the terminal, have had serious implications for her, and her colleagues' job tenure.

The recklessness of the BLAPA application would have had no effect on our union stooge al446 or anyone not working for FR at a UK base: the collateral damage on cabin crew,engineers and ground staff would have been catastrophic and hence, they, unlike easyJet pilots and union stooges, are quite entitled to express an opinion.

The massed ranks of FR pilots have shown their solidarity with their comrades by roundly rejecting the crazy BLAPA proposal ( union speak for the cognoscenti) : see my learned friend Leo's appraisal above.

We can all now get on with our jobs and forget about BLAPA for at least another few years as commonsense has taken the day.

Dumb and Dumber(leo and slime).
 

Wel well ladies.Looks like leo and slim think that the threats,intimidation and bullying have won the day over ryanair pilots.If you believe that,then gents you are as dumb as i always knew you were.The dance is far from over,but i think you know that.

Dim, the dildo's dildo.
 

Funny that it's only ever the ugly girls, Dim Sleeper, who stick around waiting for Prince Charming, long after the dance has ended.

Go home, dear. Use a cucumber. They're less trouble in the long run.

omg REPA

Do BLAPA have a sausage machine where diehards are turned out spouting the same things company to company.
I am hearing your words or similar from every company that rejects BALPA.
Cant you for once Give in Gracefully and bide your time for a couple more years, by which time the market will have changed again, and you might have a better chance at success. (As long as you exclude BRK the answer will be NOT)

Remember they (RYR pilots) have as much right to their diverse opinions as you do to yours.
But by now I am sure they are fed up of listening to this twaddle from both sides.

Get on with the job in hand, go out and fly the aeroplanes in the most professional manner possible, and let this argument rest.

guys when is this vote going to happen? we need this crap to disappear quickly. if they're not going to accept our in house no then let's just do this properly, because as far as i can see with balpa stalling, all it's doing is pissing off alot of fo's with 3000 hours ready for command and those wishing to relocate from the uk bases.

al446, i still don't see how this has anything to do with you. if someone sends you a private message then you can reply, delete it or ignore it. we've all got the same options in the user cp. until microsoft bring in balpa software for flightsim or balpa binoculars then i don't see why you should be commenting on them, especially on a ryanair thread. you don't work for the company so you don't know what it's like.

this thread shouldn't be for just pilots, but all those involved at ryanair so i believe mrs slim shady has a right to comment. she certainly understands what's going on. al446, you don't seem to.

BongleBear - Is all this Unionisation business merely cheesing you (and all the other 3000 hour co-pilots) off because you feel ready to waltz over to the left hand seat?

A little selfish and simplistic abbreviation of the past year or so don't you think?

BAPLA
 

Hey Leo
if you feel that you have won the day, and BAPLA have gone away,
will you now thaw the UK?
Let common sense prevail and lets get things moving again

What a good idea. Tell you what, MD...

If Ryanair receive a written undertaking from BLAPA that they will withdraw from Ryanair (where our pilots have repeatedly stated that they're not wanted) and stay withdrawn for a period of at least ten years, then you will be truly astonished at just how quickly the British snows will thaw.

We'll even celebrate our newly struck bargain by announcing 3 new Ryanair bases. Fair enough, Mucky Devil?

Good!!!
Are these new bases gonna be on a 5/3 roster like the new italian bases?Or maybe it's gonna be 5/2?
Oh by the way, are the newly hired pilots gonna be on the new and 10% less paid BRK contract or maybe there is already a newer one with 20% off ready for them?

Jesus :mad: Christ, Danny!

If I gave you a gold bar you'd complain it was too heavy. Once again, S L O W L Y, everyone else is firing, going under and laying off. Ryanair is expanding, hiring and promoting... Just not in the UK, thanks to BLAPA.

Since it was you who started this now extravagant thread, and since you're a relentlessly whiney twerp, why not do us all a favour a delete the entire thing?

leo,

I started the 3d with simple concepts and questions, then someone has made it extravagant...and that wasn't certainly me.

As I stated in the beginning english isn't my first language therefore I would kindly ask you to stick to level 4 grammar (the one in my licence) and answer clearly and concisely to my simple questions since you are obviusly in the know given the fact you said FR will open 3 new bases shortly:

1- will the roster be 5/3 or worse?
2- will the BRK contracts be the ones they are already giving away with 10% less $$$ or are there any new and even lower ones out there ready for us to sign?I'm asking about BRK contracts because there are no permanent ones available anymore, but let's say there were so which ones would they be?The ones like in CRL where the company still pays HOTAC and transport?Or those where you have to pay everything yourself?Oh and what about contributory pension like some bases have?

Simple people (like myself),simple questions, simple answer please.

I've only got level 4 myself, old boy, but one struggles on. If the deal on offer displeases you, have you considered exercising your right to choose and seek more pleasing employment elsewhere? Should you adapt to the world, or should our world adapt to you?

Pusha da delete button.

Leo,

2 replies, not 1 single answer.
Just arrogant lessons on how one should live his own lives and very short sighted and childish comments like "if you don't like it then leave".


FR management has always written in capital letters that FR pilots enjoy the best roster in the industry, well what happened to that? Why are they offering 5/3 now?

They have always said that FR pilots enjoy the best pay in the business, well why are they offering new and lower paid deals now?

"If Ryanair receive a written undertaking from BLAPA that they will withdraw from Ryanair "

The insane really seem to have taken over the asylum at ryanair.It ain't going to happen humpty and you know why.

Insane in the membrane,insane in the brain!!!YA,YA,YA!