To "Mr and Mrs Ryanair", aka The Real Slim Shady and Abusing the Sky :-

and

If as you say, only a handful of pilots want BALPA at your base, and 90% are going to vote no, then what on earth are you afraid of ? !!! As someone has already said, let them have the vote, then it can be put to bed and forgotten about.

ATS, your posts are now bordering on the hysterical !(bricks through windows etc). If what you say about lack of support is true, then you have nothing to worry about. So why are you and hubby so wound up ?!

You work for Ryanair, your husband works for Ryanair, Ryanair pays your mortgage and your social life revolves round cabin crew, ground staff and engineer friends in your cosy little existence at EMA. Meanwhile you're never off PPRUNE (talking about Ryanair of course !)

Have you ever thought of broadening your horizons a bit more ?


:)

PS Good luck with the vote, from what you say you have nothing to fear ......

PPS Slim you still haven't answered a question I posted a while back asking you to explain :-

"The campaign only asks for dignity and respect - why is Ryanair putting a cost on or a penalty for treating its employees better?"


Over to you !

Shame on you MOL, stop this slavery in aviation. How do you expect me to live on my £90,000 a year, and you are working me to death on my 5 on 4 off.
My full month's holiday, plus two 13 day breaks a year are also making it verry dificult to take the family away. Shame on you!
I can't wait for BALPA to get involved and screw it all up for us "NOT"

One has to wonder why the company are so terrified of recognition.

You forgot the allowances
 

Ballsout, you are absolutely right, it is a shame, and what about the allowances and the pension, I would rather loose them and get the good old 5/3 roster back.

Maybe Balpa will be able to drag us back to these horrible conditions in a few years time ? (Fee only about 5-600 £ a year) :ok:

Aldente, with all due respect,

What i do in my spare time (be that Ppruning or doing the washing) is none of your business.

I was one of the people who said that too.

As me and danyalliga have said before (note he does not agree with what i think nor do i agree with what he thinks about the BALPA involvement in FR), people said what they had to say, brought in facts (as they see them), numbers, scenarios and so on.

Now all we can do is wait and see what happens.

Please read the said post again and read between the lines, it's called sarcasm.

Let me get this right: so if people (likes of myself) do not agree with what other people say (like yourself, mr repa and danyalliga) then they are "wound up"? Or classed as "management" as mr repa believes whenever someone doesn't agree with his views?

Please, no more BALPA is going to do this, that and the other, no more gloryfying BALPA. I listened, read rather what you had to say and i get it, you think BALPA is good for us. I think just the oposite.
Should we wait and see then?

90 K !!
 

EPR, the net you take home every month is representing more than 90 K if you compare to any other salaries in the UK, and you are only working at the most 15 - 18 days a month on a 5/4 basis.

The company isn't terrified of recognition.

The company simply will not deal with BALPA: BALPA has no part to play in the commercial decisions made by the company management.

That said, initial explorations indicate that the company may be prepared to recognise and negotiate with a different association which is more benign and adopts a less militant stance, working in partnership, rather than against the company.

The company has not put a cost on treating it's employee's better: the majority of the people I speak with are very content with the fundamentals of the current term's and conditions.

Improvements such as a simplified base transfer bidding system, a web based leave bid system with graphical display of available leave at each base and a web based roster swap system for each base have been the main "improvements" people have suggested.

We don't want crew meals; we don't want artificial limits placed on our EU Ops flying hours; we don't want our 5 / 4 roster changed; we don't want some outside agency negotiating pay and conditions on our behalf.

We don't want through the night flying or night stops: we are paid better than the vast majority of airlines and our jobs are secure.

Simples!

WE are having a vote, and the pilots are overwhelmingly rejecting the application for recognition. That's the pilots, not union members, not the BALPA pilot community, but the pilots, be they, or be they not, members of BALPA, IALPA or the IPA.

BALPA, however, don't accept that: they want to engage with the BALPA pilot community exclusively.

On the other hand, we take a more inclusive stance: everyone can be "engaged", everyone can vote and they can vote according to their opinions and conscience.

BALPA will not get recognition: not at EMA, not at PIK, not at LTN or anywhere else. They see the FR pilots as an income stream to fund their dining and C class travel to international bunfights masquerading as conferences. Fortunately, the FR pilot is a canny character who can see through this and doesn't buy the BALPA tub thumpers nebulous claims.

The FR pilot can read the small print and knows that BALPA "legal protection" is discretionary and that commercial products that guarantee support are available.

BALPA has nothing to offer, and indeed, if they persist with this manifestly irresponsible campaign could find that the company throws it's resources behind the pilots, and BALPA, with its puny cash reserves, ceases to exist in its present form and its members have to dig deep into their pockets to pay the legal bills.

Punishing or penalising the pilots? No, backing them with 2 billion + Euro of resources.

UK VIKING
I agree my p60 was well over 90k and 5/4 works well for me.
I 'm not to sure what BALPA want to achieve for us during what is the worst financial crisis since the great depression combined with a pandemic swine flu outbreack which is going to hit aviation very hard in the next few months.

I will quote Martin Levitt in how employees are manipulated with set emotions to take whatever actions the management desire.

"A Union Buster without the atmosphere or climate of FEAR is like working without one leg and one arm, FEAR is essential"

"Employees live on a daily diet that they almost feed on and that daily diet consists of IGNORANCE, FEAR, GREED and EGO"

Does anyone see the similarities to the email in question or some of the posters that are here on PPRUNE? Because I see all these emotions in play on here and especially in the email.

GREED and EGO.. := Well EGO is very prevalent in posters of the know it all, I know best kind. :*

I notice that questions are still not been answered so I will put one of them from another poster up again but there are various others. I also notice that the application of statute which has now been clearly explained and presented is not being questioned which poses questions. The email was either WRONG because of misinterpretation or it was MISLEADING due to a personal agenda? Which is it? Also where did this body of text concerning the 10% test come from in the email to the juncture of decloration? :confused:

Here is another posters question;

my god!! how scared some peoples are! better belong in the kindergarten than in an airliner cockpit! good luck to all the rest! :ok:

Oh dear alibaba.

You really are a sad, pathetic, one track, blinkered little lemming racing headlong after your BALPA heroes to the cliff edge: lucky for you I'm sufficiently magnanimous in victory to provide you with a safety net.

No one is scared of BALPA: we, the cogent majority, simply want nothing to do with them. The company isn't "terrified" of unions as I explained in an earlier post.

There is no place for BALPA or it's culture of self indulgence in Ryanair: now if you don't like that you have the option to vote with your feet and let those of us who are quite happy get on with our jobs and our lives.

Now, I have explained about the 10% test and the applicability of that test ( union members - not workers) and that the CAC may, but doesn't have to - read the qualifying conditions - order a ballot.

So if the CAC decide that they don't want to order a ballot, for whatever reason they may have, the 10% test has been passed and recognition can be awarded if the majority of workers belong to the union. Which is why people are resigning from the union!

50%+1 of the workers are union members and whether they want recognition or not.......they get it, without a ballot, just because of the 10% test.

And before you say that all BALPA members want recognition, that is not the case.

Bull!!!!!

We don't want a PENSION? we don't want a SOCIAL PROTECTION?

come on... what is that!!!


Bull!!!! again!!! Mirage!!!
Take your money you get, substract money for pension, for health insurance, hotel to the sim, Months off, etc...

What do you have at the end, less than a lot of normal Airline, you are just magnify by figures you get on your bank account...

How much money do you get if you are sick and bed blocked for 5 months? (Did you ever think about that).

Does your job is so secure???(with Ryanair??? :ugh:)
I don't think so, you are just a Dreamer!

Ballsout, your statements are misleading and do not reflect reality. You are MOL or very close.

Some people here speak as if they were pilots. They're just MOL's team pretending they're so happy in marvel land. What a farce !

Ryanair pilots, please, don't let this down. Whatever your nationality, whatever your base. You're entitled to respect, not bully. The game Ryanair's management is playing is disgusting.

FRpilot, according my contract I can be sick up to 6 months and still have my basic, a lot more than the orange I am told.

FRying, I am certainly not management but I guess I have seen more unions doing more damage than the opposite in the last 25 years than you have and if you can't earth your self enough to see that this is just not the best timing for a Balpa recognition, then go ahead, make it even worse.

Correct, I am afraid of loosing what I already have and I will definately loose it the very same day as a Balpa recognition is a reality and it will take Balpa a very long time just to get that part back if they ever will.

By the way do any of you guys think that Parc, Wynwith, Sigmar etc. pilots can vote for any union recognition in those companies they are contracted with ?

Doesn't Brookfield have pilots in India as well and are they able to vote for a Ryanair Balpa recognition ?

Many thanks for your unprofessional psychiatric ARMCHAIR like opinion of me. I will give it as much intellectual input and mental tasking as I needed for the MISREPRESENTED email. :} I do tough realise I have no business commenting on your mental complexities unlike you on me. Maybe that is a measure of the man? :suspect:

I will ask the questions again maybe someone would like to answer them? The argument about the email seems to be flipping and changing so much it feels like Shrove Tuesday. ;) No need for a cigar then..

It seems like your genuine compassion and concern for colleagues is or has gone missing? :yuk:

Victory? With what are you referring to? :confused: What guarantee’s can you provide me with in reference to a "safety net" that you or I can't lose our jobs tomorrow in Ryanair no matter what the economic climate apart from trying to court favour with management? Which “safety net” are you inferring to and from whom?

Pot calling kettle black when comparing the stance with reference to a selfish email and very easy to answer: That is what the email is. A huge EGO, a large dose of IGNORANCE and simply GREED. :yuk::yuk:

I have read the statute fully many times, but the CAC has to follow the law as anybody does and so have to follow the procedure if any of the conditions exist to call a ballot. If the ballot does not take place it is because of a substantial majority of WORKERS are MEMBERS of the Union and in being so no need for a ballot. But the telling condition is this So the CAC will have to call a ballot.

It was I who posted the statute in full without BIASED or MISREPRESENTED facts unlike the email or some posts on PPRUNE. So your small minded patronising attacking posts are not needed. I have no desire to treat fellow professionals in such a way as I think the arguments are there to present for themselves on either side which comes down to FEAR.

That would be right if there was a majority but then this criteria would come into effect Now because of your evident strong feelings and the companies strong feelings do you think that this condition is met and in doing so leading to a ballot? It does meet the condition or criteria so leading to a ballot.

So what was the promise for INDIVIDUALS and or EMA from PB, DOB and EW for collusion in such Union Busting practices? I hope you got it in writing for whatever that is worth in Ryanair?

I look forward to you answering these questions around the time the next ice age comes round.

BALPA for PROFESSIONAL REPRESENTATION of UK BASED, MULTI NATIONAL PROFESSIONAL RYANAIR PILOTS or a future working life dictated by armchair solicitors, economists and psychiatrists? :ok:

Your choice if your management or your co-workers allow you that free democratic choice? :cool:

FRying, I am not MOL, I am not anything to do with management. I am simply a Ryanair captain that is very happy with the deal he has now and doesn't want BALPA to bugger things up. If you bothered to look at my profile and posting history you could easily conclude I am a genuine poster!

I think we should bring the discussion back to basics, there's way too much misleading information circulating and it's very unfair and childish given the seriousness of the subject.
Let's put things straight once for all:

Well at today's exchange rate 90.000 Sterling equals 105.000 euros so: 105.000 divided by 12 months equals 8750.
If it's a gross figure let's subtract 30% tax from it (let's pretend you live in a very tax favourable country with a low tax regime) and we come up with 63.000 sterling or 73.000 euros that equals to 5250STG/6083EUR per month.
To these figures you have to subtract health insurance,private pension, loss of licence, car park, uniform, hotels, meals, transportation just to name the money that needs to be spend just to be able to work.

If it's a net figure you should have made 136.000 EUR gross which is what a BRK floater would make with 950 hours and 30% tax (I whish...).


The other day I spoke with an F/O who had his 13 days allocated when he didn't want them and the month after he got his full month off also unwanted....great for the family if he had one but pretty bad for his finances (BRK contract) because that left him broke for 2 months when F/O's are complaining for low hours/income.
Also pretty bad because his next annual leave is in 8 months.

See the numbers above, making 6000EUR/month as a Captain for 900 hours/year without even a pension scheme isn't really something to be proud of.
Oh the 5/4 system works fine for you?
Why don't you ask most F/O's who are on STBY most of their ON days making ZERO money on BRK contracts that they were forced to sign?
Or why not asking those guys who joined FR for their fantastic 5/4 system just to find themselves in some of the new italian bases with a 5/3?



The management has surely succeeded in the "divide&conquer" techniques given the extremely short sighted and selfish comments some of you are posting here.
This battle is starting in the UK but it's about the whole company and its 33 bases, get a good sleep tonight and try to look a bit further than your noses tomorrow.

The supreme excellence is not to win a hundred victories in a
hundred battles. The supreme excellence is to subdue the armies of your
enemies without even having to fight them.

Lao-Tzu
(BC 600-?, Chinese Philosopher, Founder of Taoism, Author of the "Tao Te Ching")

Brookfield or Ryanair ?
 

Dannyalliga, you are mostly talking Brookfield stuff, this thread is about Ryanair imployees and Balpa, if Brookfield guys wants other t&c's, isn't that a matter of getting Brookfield recognized as they put up these problems or even more simply, just don't take a contract with Brookfield, no pilots from Brookfield means Ryanair have to get some from other brookers or even employ direct as a Ryanair pilot, not simple as that but maybe the only problem right now is the amount of pilots and cadets that are willing to take the offer as it is now and by that also accept it.

I am Ryanair and my t&c's are to my satisfaction, I don't need to be recognized by Balpa and loose some of my agreements because some Brookfield pilots have totally other subjects to discuss, we can't negotiate together as we have different t&c's. Personally I think it is quite bad conditions for a young cadet, but he still took the contract with Brookfield and hopefully read the contract and checked out all the t&c's, talked to other Brookfield pilots or checked Pprune before he signed ?

Now we have an answer.
BRK Pilots you dont count here is how I read UK Viking.
Yet you are a large part of all UK bases.

BALPA members or not you cannot have a vote and your voice cannot be heard, only RYR contacts matter.

Now we know the truth why should the BRK pilots jobs/ base/lives be put at risk by a militant few who believe that BALPA is the cure for all their ill's.

Any BRK pilot who believes in fairness cannot allow a few IDIOTS to ruin their careers, and have their views ignored.
IF BRK pilots get a chance to vote, their logical answer should be "NO" to BALPA.
Why simply because BALPA can and will do NOTHING for you, and why should you wish for your base to be closed, and all jobs forfeit.

To the BALPA diehards "Think of the Big picture your colleagues and job losses"
As Night changes to Day you can be sure Ryanair management WILL carry out their treat on the first and any subsequent base that votes BALPA in.

Quote from The Real Slim Shady


What "outside agency" ?! Have you ever worked in an airline with BALPA recognition ?

BALPA representation at a unionised airline consists of Company Councils, drawn from the ranks of ordinary pilot members from that airline. These members meet with management and negotiate on behalf of the other pilots.

So how would you call that negotiating via an outside agency ? The only difference is that the BALPA CC's would have the backing and resources of a large organisation with access to departments to give them support and guidance on various employment matters.


Can you tell me what resources the ERC's have to draw on ? ..........

Day Dreamer, that's an interesting slant on things.

My view, and what I have consistently said, is that I believe that the issue is sufficiently profound that it impinges on the livelihoods of all the pilots that the BRK guys should also have a say.

Whether the CAC, if they decide that "in the interests of good industrial relations" hold a ballot and include BRK pilots remains to be seen: BALPA will certainly manipulate the process to their own ends. You only have to look at their response to our rejection of their application to see that.

The pro BALPA lobby can produce nothing to support their assertions that recognition would improve our T & C's or enhance our lives: instead they rely on obtuse personal attacks, misinformation and the blind faith that it won't happen to them. Heroes, led by donkeys.

alibaba is a prime example: he is blinded by a personal dislike of me and my opinion: whilst he believes that he has the right to "interpret" ( his word ) the legislation, and hence is so certain that his interpretation is the only true version that he denies any other opinion, he puffs and preens and achieves absolutely NOTHING. What is fascinating, however, is that he, and the other BALPA hardliners, are being sidetracked by trivia as they have NO valid case to put across.

What they cannot do is to place before the FR pilot community a definitive policy or schedule of "improvements": they cannot deliver a timetable for these "improvements" nor are they, or their masters in BALPA HQ prepared to commit to paying salaries or providing unqualified legal assistance ( in the form of financial aid ) to any pilot who loses his / her job because of this recognition campaign. I know this as I have asked them, again and again to commit themselves to this, and I have asked the BALPA staff, at the highest level, to commit to this, and they have refused.

What's more, the BALPA hardliners are TERRIFIED, a word they love to bandy around about the company and those who don't want recognition, to stand up, stop hiding behind anonymous screen names and take their crusade to the crewrooms.

That is the level of commitment they have to the FR pilots.

This is not a campaign about your terms and conditions: this is not a campaign about your rights under Employment legislation or European Law. This campaign is about BALPA getting a scalp it can wave to the world at the next international bunfight its delegates attend at the members expense.

BALPA simply wants to achieve some recognition, anywhere, at Ryanair to score points, even when they know without reservation that their actions will result in the base that votes for recognition being closed immediately and pilots, cabin crew and engineers losing their jobs.

Ask yourself why they submitted 10 separate recognition applications, 1 for each UK base, rather than a blanket application covering all UK contracted FR pilots; it's a spread bet in the hope of a small victory.

If you want to see the full "benefit" of union membership, have a read at the thread on the Cabin Crew forums about BA: while BASSA fiddles BA burns. Willie Walsh has a holding pool of 1500+ cabin crew waiting to take the jobs of the ones he sacks but BASSA, rather like BALPA, can't see the wood for the trees.

Anyone in FR who votes for recognition is simply running at speed towards the cliff edge: the recession hasn't bottomed and a double, or treble dip is looming over the horizon. Sit tight, keep taking the salary for 15 days work a month, keep picking up the sector pay, accept the payment for car parking, medicals, loss of licence and keep making your contributions to the pension so that the company keeps making theirs.

But above all, retain your dignity and respect: avoid the trip to the dole line.

Aldente,

I have worked for BALPA airlines and know exactly how their corrupt negotiations, and the advice they base these on works.

Corrupt because the BALPA way is the way of disenfranchising the members, trading their terms and conditions for the "reward" of a TRE /TRI job or management job. The hardliners on this forum have confirmed this is the MO by accusing me of selling my soul a la BALPA in the fight to avoid recognition: something the colleagues who know me, and the FR management, will tell you is completely and utterly false.

danny, Yes, all of the things you talk about are with the Brookfield First Officers. I agree, the company have far too many of them, and recruiting more. BALPA can have, and do nothing for them, as they are self employed contractors. I do feel for some of them, but it is a situation they chose to accept when they decided on a shortcut to flying a big new jet.
Overall they still don't do too badly and the majority find a very quick route to their command.
If you must get involved in this debate, please learn the facts first!

What I have just read is almost unbelievable.
That the BRK boys / girls do not count here has been confirmed.

Only the RYR pilots matter is the feeling I get here, and as long as the "I'm alright Jack" brigade are heard the rest of you ALL CC/ Engineeers / Ground Staff and Families can "GO FLY A KITE" and sod the consequences.

I have seen this happen so many time over the last 36 years, by BALPA clones who only consider themselves, and believe that BALPA will be the cure for all their perceived ill's.
I am sorry to say that I was once one of those clones but was able to see the light and work to benefit my colleagues in other ways.

If you can take any advice, put this recognition campaign on "HOLD" until the economic climate improves.

To RYR management, You can't blame a whole base for a few rotten eggs, especially when a large proportion are unable to be heard.

To any younger Ryanair pilots, who are possibly more likely to be swayed as they haven't been in the industry for that long, be wary about paying too much attention to the anti-BALPA rantings of some of the above posters. If their claims about their employment history are to be believed, they appear to be journeymen, i.e. those who switch from employer to employer. It's my experience that these sort of people tend to take a jaded, sometimes embittered view of unions, usually because they don't have the shared history of employees with longer service records, who see the important work that is done by the union year on year.

Ryanair is likely to be the career airline for most current Ryanair pilots as it's getting so big that there simply won't be the places at other airlines, at least in Europe. Ask yourself this, why aren't terms & conditions at other very large airlines, for example Lufthansa, & British Airways like those at Ryanair. Why don't those airlines employ legions of contractors? Why are their pilots well looked after if they get sick? Will their pilots be less or more wealthy in retirement compared to you? The answer is they are represented by a union. If unions and BALPA in particular was so bad, why would they have them? Go figure!

Good luck to all Ryanair pilots. You have to make a start somewhere if you want to make Ryanair into the airline it could be, i.e. like Southwest.

All those thousands and thousands of DLH, BA & Southwest pilots can't be wrong, surely? Make a start. That start is to vote yes for union recognition.

I love the way the couple of ryanair stooges on here repeatedly try to suggest BALPA is some kind of sinister bullying organisation. If you could remove three or four posters from this argument, there would be no anti-BALPA support at all.

EVERYONE knows ryanair are a terrible employer, what's wrong with the employees trying to improve their lot? The only way improvement will happen is through BALPA as the company have proved on numerous occasions that they couldn't care less about crew or what the crew think.

If you don't have BALPA, your already industry bottom Ts and Cs will decline even more.

I agree that terms and conditions will fall in the future.thats a given,as per usual.since my short time here i have noticed a decline.

TRSS just because you are comfortable with your situation does not mean everyone is in the same boat.Lets say for instance you were an FO about to do a command upgrade.Management would offer you a lower capt salary then previous and change your base to wherever they say.They will prob want to pay you 10% less if the base your sent to was a request.So thats a double whammy in reduction of terms.Is that fair? NO.You would be singing a different tune then,away from your loved EMA and sent to SNN.

I find the management threats and propaganda laughable.I hear from people on the line often that 'they must be scared'.They certainly ARE.Iv heard of dubious management actions at the stn base recently - again another example of illegal behaviour.

Figures of 90K are laughable.A regular capt( non trainer) sometimes earns less then a floating BRK FO ! Im sure ryr contract people want to move to a BRK at this stage.

Stooges !!!
Anyone who knows who I am and there are many who do, will know that I have NO connection with RYR management or Training Departments.
I have met "Ash" and know many of the BRK pilots, but incase anyone considers me a Stooge, I am posting a purely impartial view as to BALPA and its relations with the airlines.
If my views don't meet with the jaundiced outlook of the "BALPA or Bust Brigade" that's just too bad for the you.
After 36+ years in this industry with many of them in BALPA and non BALPA companies, I feel that I have a right to post the facts as I see them, so as to bring some reason to the debate.
Advice is usually only taken if it conforms to the person's views receiving it.
In this case many of you will loose out, especially in the current Economic climate. More will be lost now than if this were to be resurrected in 2-3 years.
There is another UK company with similarities to the RYR - BALPA fight and in that fight it appears that BALPA just want another trophy on their shelves, and a few more 1% subscriptions into the coffers.

For those who post and are not RYR pilots, you may have good industrial relations between BALPA and Management, but this only works if the environment is one of trust, respect and co-operation.
This is obviously not going to happen in RYR.

Unless you include the WHOLE (RYR / BRK) pilot force in any vote it cannot represent the true will of a particular bases or group of bases.
The reason you wont include them is among the BALPA'ites there is a fear of a "NO" vote and 3 more years before you can try again.

Back off now and try again when the economy improves, see where BALPA leads in that time !!!.
Also if T&C's are further eroded or bases closed you can crow that "We were right".

Day Dreamer,

With 36+ years in this industry maybe you are approaching the Ryanair retirement age. With this in mind I can understand why you prefer to be on the side of the fence that terms and condition will be negotiated lower and lower year on year. The alternative might require some short term pain, and you'll have very little time to benefit from the gain.

Not a personal attack on you, just an observation of your circumstances.

Passenger numbers are up 13% this month year on year.

With the current management it will never be a good time to try and improve our conditions. As they have stated many times that they will not negotiate with it's Pilots.

intimidated Pilot

Pity you did not read my posts correctly, as I don't work for RYR.

EPR SET.

In the old days unions did some good, but BALPA lost their way by forgetting there were more pilots out there than BA.
They have only achieved much in the climate of proper trust, respect and a two way street.
Look at what is happening now, not just in RYR, BA, or the charter airlines.
Unions convince people they can improve things, but with confrontational management it is often impossible without Strike action.

It would take too long to explain my dealings with BALPA and this is not the place to do so.
Just let me say that they have let down more people than they have helped, and cost them 1% of salary per year.
They promise what they cannot realistically provide to encourage members and fill their coffers.

Day Dreamer....

You don't work for FR.

Good news as I won't have to worry about you negatively voting for lower conditions.

People in glass gin palaces shouldn't throw stones.

Let BALPA put its' own house in order, spend less on dining, travel and fine wines, guarantee that pilots will have legal protection, regardless of whether BALPA think they have a case or not, with their own choice of legal team, cut the General Secretary's package to the same as a Ryanair Captain ( £50K fair Vexed?) and then they might have a chink of an opportunity to put a case to the pilots.

slim - you are sounding more and more like the ryanair propoganda union busting maching day after day.use your own iniative and formulate your own thoughts.we have heard all your mol soundbites again and again.the soundbites which are so blatantly put together by the union busters from the states that ryanair has on it's books.why not pay your employees fair terms and conditions out of the hundreds of thousands paid to the union busters.
heres a novel idea,cut ryanairs ceo package to that of a ryanair captain and level the playing field.will never happen,king molly is happy to sit in his ivory tower and direct his henchmen to do his dirty work.that is why he hires union busters and sends his minnions to perjure themselves in court.he is a COWARD
of the highest order and those that follow his ethic are proven idiots.
hurry home lest (abusing) try extra curricular dissuation techniques on those fine upstanding pilots at your base.

This thread is so funny.......
 

The pro BALPA lot want to get the union in to stop their T&C being further reduced, The anti BALPA lot want to keep them out to stop their T& C being further reduced. The bottom line is both camps are stuffed, MOL has your (lack off) balls in his hand and he will squeeze until your are working for nothing.

Forget BALPA, get a group together and go and see Bob Crowe of the RMT (rail, maritime& transport) he is the suitable anti matter to deal with MOL

Full credit to MOL for realisng that most pilots do what they do out of pride and has such can be abused

For the CC on here, the second P in Pprune stands for pilots, :mad: you no nothing or at best very little of the work/effort/cost that goes into getting the first P of Pprune.

Most CC at Ryanair have been suckered into the same dream that a number of cadets are in

If MOL stays much longer then your all :mad: it will end in tears or some pilot deep in debt with a wife in another country with another man will think i have had enough and 180+ 0.99p ticket holders will be dead, game over

The only thing going for BALPA here is that MOL doesn't want them, sooner or later he will upset some Eastern European gang boss and his number will be up

The Face

You, Sir, are a horses arse.

The Camel.

Priceless Leo
Maybe a colonoscopy for your good self might be advisable?
Results could be very revealing

True Colours.
 

Ah, the truth will out.

Dear Ryanair colleagues,

I'd wondered what it was that had put a wild hair up the arse of BLAPA. Given their lethargic history and slovenly instincts, BLAPA's actions in pursuit of Ryanair could be described as rather like Robbie Coltrane running the four-minute mile! Aha, but what's this? The smoking gun.

In case you, too, had wondered why it was that the historical inertia of BLAPA, when it comes to matters Ryanair, has recently been eclipsed by an indelicate haste for recognition, here, from a recent newsletter, is their raisons d'état; the killer app.

Aha, so that's what's bothering BLAPA. In that case, I say bring on the Tories. Someone should alert that nice old Etonian with a fondness for coke, that BLAPA are circling the drain. Hurrah!

Maybe you have not seen it,leo horses ass,but the truth is outing here.the truth about ryanairs union busting tactics,threats,bullying and intimidation!the blatant abuse of it employees and the prevention of human beings their rights to associate and right to free speech.

Where do you vote NO to Balpa recognition ?
 

For those Ryanair pilots who don't want Balpa recognition and for that reason did'nt register themselves with Balpa (Ballot on Balpa internet site) i suggest that you personally contact Balpa to make a statement that you, on wathever base you might be at, do NOT want a recognition on your base and that your vote is a NO.

I did that on an e-mail (adress is on Balpas homepage, as I just learned that I am not allowed to print it here) requesting a confirmation that the e-mail had been recieved and read.

If the case is that 10% on your base has requested recognition, maybe your vote this way will change that percentage of the voters, worth a try anyway.