|
You forgot sector pay which currently has no tax (RYR contract Captains and F/O's) BRK pilots on 800 hours per year (Prior to new hires) earn €5000 per month averaged over 12 months. Many BRK pilots have their own tax situation under control, new hires must conform to Brookfields T & C's. I was speaking to a few BRK pilots recently all had obtained tax relief on several items as they work on self employed tax status, and expect to pay between £3500-£5000 tax for past year, plus accountancy fees (Tax deductable) Be thankfull in this current economic climate that RYR are recruiting, more pilot lay offs are being announced weekly, Monarch, BA, Virgin. |
Bruce Wayne - As you state, from your experience on another thread, I certainly can, and do, conduct a conversation in an adult and dignified fashion. My support for Barden's statement stems from it being directed at Leo and his fellows who post in similar fashion. To a great extent it depends on how you view yourself in terms of which set you belong to. In my experience you have not descended to the puerile forms that Leo etc employ or the so-quick-and-easy-to-grab stereotypical views of trade unionists as propagated by the then middle class British film & TV industries in the 60s & 70s. I will respect the contrary view of anyone as long as, if trying to justify their stance and rubbish mine, they do not distort the truth. Thankfully you have not done so and where there has been disagreement between us it has been resolved in a far from combatitive manner. I much prefer that.
I started posting on this thread as I was reading gross distortions of the law as being described by TRSS and others and sought to clarify this in order that hose with an interest in it, ie those in the bargaining unit, could be alerted to those distortions. If you read my posts you will find that they are made in that spirit. I have never sought to be inflamfatory and do not believe I have been. Barden's words may seem harsh to you but I think he has considered them well. They may be emotive but this issue has been made emotive by those he attacks. |
permanent contracts: Capt. 5500-6000 euros/month and senior F/O's about 3500-4000/month , virtually no benefits at all and you pay for everything. BRK contracts: Capt. 5500/month and F/O's 3500 (paying taxes in Ireland mandatory), no benefits whatsoever. |
Bia, have to agree with you on that one!
I know guys ( line captains) who are picking up 5 figures a month in € to the left of the decimal point! Danny A and his whining union stooge mates haven't actually grasped the fundamental economic situation or, indeed, the plain fact ( excuse me for stating the bleedin' obvious) that it is a buyer's market right now and Ryanair are the only buyers! |
Slim
They aren't even that anymore, all TR courses suspended until next April/May, pilots who were selected and due to start in the autumn/winter told they would have to redo simcheck/interview come next year...... |
The figures that I quoted were for a BRK F/O
|
Ryanair Welcomes BALPA’s Confirmation
THAT ITS RECOGNITION CAMPAIGN AMONG RYANAIR’S UK PILOTS HAS FAILED – AGAIN (SO IT’S BYE BYE BALPA) Ryanair, the UK’s largest airline today (7th Aug) welcomed BALPA’s recent announcement that it has “temporarily suspended” its trade union recognition campaign amongst Ryanair’s UK pilots in the face of massive opposition from Ryanair’s pilots towards BALPA (the British Airways Lunching Pilots Association). On June 19th BALPA wrote to Ryanair seeking to impose union recognition among Ryanair’s UK pilots. Ryanair told them to go away, because Ryanair’s pilots continue to negotiate directly with the airline as evidenced by a recent extension of Ryanair’s UK pilots four year pay and conditions agreement. This guaranteed Ryanair pilots a 5 on, 4 off roster (the best in the industry) as well as protecting Ryanair’s pilots pay and job security at a time when BALPA was negotiating pay cuts and job cuts at British Airways, Virgin, Thompson-Fly and others. However BALPA wouldn’t take the hint and threatened to refer the matter to the CAC, who could (under UK legislation) require a secret ballot among Ryanair UK pilots to see whether they actually want trade union recognition. Following a groundswell of opposition to BALPA from Ryanair’s UK pilots, BALPA have now recognised that they don’t have the support of a majority of Ryanair’s pilots, that they won’t win any such ballot, which is why their campaign to impose union recognition has now been “temporarily suspended” in another humiliating defeat for the British Airways Lunching Pilots Association. Ryanair’s Director of Personnel, Eddie Wilson said: “The only reason why BALPA is “temporarily suspending” this campaign is because they know that they will lose. BALPA don’t want to lose another secret ballot on recognition, because that will mean they can’t have another go at Ryanair for a minimum period of three years. “Perhaps now would be a good time for BALPA – the British Airways Lunching Pilots Association – to accept that Ryanair’s UK pilots have better pay, better terms and conditions and better rosters than the pay cuts and job losses being negotiated by BALPA at many other British airlines. This is why Ryanair’s UK pilots don’t need and don’t want the “help” of a failed BA pilots union, which last year spent four times more on lunches, conferences, entertainment and travel (£886,000) than they did on legal fees defending their members (£191,000). “This is another humiliating defeat for the British Airways Lunching Pilots Association, coming 8 years after they lost the last secret ballot on trade union recognition by a majority of over 4 to 1 against. At least this latest failure of BALPA’s recognition campaign will give them more time for lunches, and they can spend even less money defending their members interests in British Airways, Virgin, Thomson-Fly and all the other UK airlines where BALPA are negotiating pay cuts and job cuts. So it’s Bye Bye BALPA – yet again!!” |
UK Base Thaw
Hey Leo
Thanks a million for the UK Base Thaw - that is what i call a quick response! Seriously though - thanks, now we can all get on with flying and making a profit. It was a bit too cold for a Devil Mucky Devil |
SS Blapa sinks after collision with Ryanair Reef. Survivors unlikely.
Ask and you shall receive, Mucky Devil.
Once again, a little travel music for BLAPA to find their way back home to their masters. Bye Bye BLAPA |
Leo - as always a pleasure to read your posts. Alas, for the rest of the lemmings at Ryanair I can only stand in open-mouthed amazement at their utter foolishness. Nonetheless, it appears that the voice of the people has been heard. The tragedy of this is that pilots at Ryanair would sooner be stuffed daily by Michael O'Leary than stand up for the basic employment rights that were fought for over many years by considerably braver people than themselves. At the end of the day they appear to have voted for an airline without collective representation - their wish will be granted and they will be picked off one by one.
|
Oranges, Lemons and the Great Pumpkin BLAPA.
Well hello there, Norman, I'd begun to wonder when you'd be popping in.
Rather naughty of you to sit before the keyboard late at night whilst grumpy, though. As to matters at hand, you are correct, old friend. BLAPA have been seen off. Ryanair pilots have said an unequivocal NO. You'd be well advised to accept the truth that a single person believing in the Great Pumpkin is a mental patient, yet ten thousand believing in it becomes a religion. Diluting the acceptance of stupidity and the suspension of disbelief that comes along with another 2500 devotees of your Great Pumpkin at BLAPA would have been another step in obscuring their uselessness and self-interest. Happily, Ryanair pilots are smarter than that and have told them to :mad: off. That neither means we're lemmings, nor shall we be picked off one by one. If you've any decency, Norman, you should apologise for those remarks. Offensiveness isn't your natural style, although it has been creeping in, more and more of late. Haemhorriods, Norman? If I were you, I'd be far more interested in happenings at Orangeland than showing your hand with banal comments on matters pertaining to Ryanair. From a soon to be released analysts note: easyJet Management is targeting £125m of annualised cost savings by the September 2011 year end. The principal components of this are a £40m reduction in ownership costs to be achieved from selling or returning to lessors aircraft that were expensive to acquire and replacing them with A 320 family aircraft under the cheaper easyJet order. A further £30m is expected to come from crew efficiency measures, especially rostering and another £30m from improved fuel burn. Of more concern to you should be the fact that my crack team of Brady spotters have found fresh Brady droppings in and around the grounds of a certain plump, fleshy-faced Greek gentleman's home, and I have further evidence of late-night discussions, far from the prying eyes of Orangeland. My spies tell me that WB is odds on to replace your Mr. Harrison as CEO when he leaves at the end of the year, and I for one just can't wait to hear what you've got to say after the rocket ship Brady touches down at Luton. Rather than being beastly to us, Norman, may I suggest with tremendous affection, that you apply your attention to these and other imminent developments in your own backyard. If I'm right, Norman, (and of course I am) 2010 is going to be a very interesting year indeed for the Orange People. Here's the reason why. |
BRK pilots on 800 hours per year (Prior to new hires) earn €5000 per month averaged over 12 months. Many BRK pilots have their own tax situation under control, new hires must conform to Brookfields T & C's. We all know the funny quote about opinions but maths are a different thing, much less funny: 80euros/hour X 800hours = 64000/year divided by 12months = 5333gross/month. Take tax away from it (let's pretend we live in dreamland and only pay 20%) we are left with 4266, take some kind of pension away from it, loss of licence, health insurance,car park, uniform, medicals, hotels&transportation for sims etc etc and you'll come up with a number far away from the one you are falsely advertising. dannyalliga, through arse you speak,,,, if you include pension, ryr captains will earn nearly 8000euros per month, BRK captains will earn in excess of 9000euros per month. Going back to maths again: 125/hour (new BRK) X 850 = 106000 divided by 12 = 8854 gross/month. Shall we take some tax and the 3% tax advisor's commission away?And what about some pension?And some health insurance and loss of licence?Not mentioning medicals, hotels&transportation for sims....again more misleading info posted here. It would be better to keep this discussion at an adult level talking about numbers and facts than posting videos, insulting eachother, playing the smart "i know it all" guys or those who think the world is at the edge of collapse advertising the fact that one should be happy to just be alive and have a job or enjoy it when other operators are in difficulty. |
Danny
It is obvious that you do not understand the Self Employed Tax system as to what may be reclaimed, its complex and requires an accountant. My figures are factual, and obtained from BRK F/O's who were employed Last Year, some before the Line training €40 / hour, others after. In your argument you state after tax figures, and maybe you compare with other airlines who are PAYE. For pension lets take an average of 5% employee contribution €250 Tax in first year after deductions estimated at €6000 or €500 / month Overall the cost to the pilot of the other things you mentioned :- "loss of licence, health insurance,car park, uniform, medicals, hotels & transportation for sims etc " These are ALL tax deductable to a self employed pilot. Allowing a fixed monthly deduction for these items many of which are not monthly of €300. the math adds up as follows, Monthly income. Income €5000 outgoings €1050 (Before tax relief) in the Bank €3950 converted to GBP 3375 A good salary for in any ones eyes, once related to other companies Flybe £2090 before tax Monthly. BMI Regional 2750 before tax Monthly Figures from PPJN. The new F/O BRK is reduced yes, but there are hundreds out there willing to work for it. For Captains and F/O's RYR remember that they also get sector pay, per hour flown, and the current agreement I believe is tax paid, so no deduction. The figures I have given you are based on €80 / hour less €4.5 deduction. On 800 hours per year, with a further 100hrs which could be flown. These hours are scheduled hours and as we all know the maximum is 900 Flight Hours. Start getting your facts right, and compare like for like, as its difficult to equate Self Employed to PAYE, they are very different beasts. As LHC said "Give him a bar of gold and he will complain that its too heavy" |
The same WB who gave "false" information at the Ryanair court case!
"Judge Smyth quoted evidence of Mr Warwick Brady, Ryanair's Deputy Director of Flight Operations, that a Captain Gale "received warnings not to go back to Dublin to fly and be based there". The judge found that this was one of two pieces of evidence from Mr Brady that "I consider to be false". Sums things up I think. |
125/hour (new BRK) X 850 = 106000 divided by 12 = 8854 gross/month. but that just serves to reinforce the point that you guys just don't get it. pilots are a commodity, just like fuel and coffee and tires, less people using them and a abundance availability and the price for them drops, in 04 05 when ryr had a major push on for captain and few available, brk wages increased, no one complained. except maybe the usually unionized full time guys who reckoned they should all be banished to the pits of hell. BRK fo's salary's increased as did full time ryr salaries(unless you include the dublin base guys whom at the time where reaping the benefits of being lead up the garden path by the aer lingus trade unionist.) It would be better to keep this discussion at an adult level talking about numbers and facts than posting videos, insulting each other, playing the smart "i know it all" guys or those who think the world is at the edge of collapse advertising the fact that one should be happy to just be alive and have a job or enjoy it when other operators are in difficulty. 125/hour (new BRK) X 850 = 106000 divided by 12 = 8854 gross/month. |
Dannyalliga. Your posts are full of :mad:
As someone pointed out, you quite clearly do not understand how ltd company/self employment works. You seem to be so worried about these new f/os who earn 5 euros less than other f/os. However compare this to just two years ago where new f/os were stuck on 600 euros for months on end. Now were on 75.5 psbh. Big difference. The new guys are on 5 euros less or something, still nothing to complain about. "Take tax away from it (let's pretend we live in dreamland and only pay 20%) we are left with 4266, take some kind of pension away from it, loss of licence, health insurance,car park, uniform, medicals, hotels&transportation for sims etc etc and you'll come up with a number far away from the one you are falsely advertising." Mate you keep going on like uniform, medicals, hotels...etc are a monthly occurance. Maybe you just dont invest/save your money very well but i just about struggle on with paying £65 for a hotel room 2 a year for my RSTs. Captains earn alot more than 5000 a month. I earn that as an SFO. We can argue and through figures backwards and forwards all day to prove "whos right" but all I will say is if you feel that 40, 50, 60...etc K a year isnt alot of money then - get a good accountant like the majority of BRK guys do. And save your money, dont spend it on a new uniform each month!! One final word - like many have said on here, dont like it - no one is telling you to put up with it. But ill tell you why you do, because no one else is hiring, you wont earn as much with anyone else and you know it. Otherwise you'd be out. Simple. |
You're sad CommandB..
I've been with RYR for 5+ years. The FIRST job I was offered, payed more than RYR. |
One for Norman...
Meanwhile, at head office, sourcing of appropriate airframes to commence our overdue entry into Long Haul operations is causing consternation in certain quarters.
|
The new F/O BRK is reduced yes, but there are hundreds out there willing to work for it. On 800 hours per year, with a further 100hrs which could be flown. These hours are scheduled hours and as we all know the maximum is 900 Flight Hours. By the way you forget to mention that while one could fly 900 and make more money another one could get ill and sit at home with ZERO (great feeling of security....). By the way thanks for the theory about being self employed and all those academic figures, the reality is that 2 out of 3 of the agencies selected by BRK for tax advice are not even answering emails nor phone calls and the 3 one is giving out information which is different from the one you could get from the previous 2 (in the rare occasions when they answer an email or return a phone call). But we'll very shortly have the details of those "great gains" you advertise, just stay tuned and someone will post them here. Figures from PPJN. if you want to talk about new captains, which the vast majority of them are not, just to prove your point go ahead. pilots are a commodity, just like fuel and coffee and tires, |
Danny
Why are you such a sad :mad: The people with whom I speak regularly have since they joined early last year averaged 820 in the 12 months from start of line training. Some have reached the 900 hours. This month most are rostered 90+ hours and since the beginning of the year have averaged over 65 hours including leave. Were are you getting your statistics from ? Why are you so worried about contracts which may not come up for renewal for 2 or 3 years, the situation will have changed again by then. I am a Pilot with over 36 years in the industry, and yes I am a commodity, just like any other employee. I suggest that once you have gained experience in the industry, you will understand the economics, and that aviation is not what you expected it to be. As for sickness, how often have you been sick in the last year, or for that matter since you were 16. Yes sick pay would be an advantage but you can get a policy to cover you, again tax deductable to self employed pilots. I am glad that I dont have to sit next to you on the flightdeck as your colleagues must be sick of listening to you bleat and fighting a losing corner. |
Hitlers 787 delayed
I don't think i have laughed so much over a thread on Pprune before.
Now I am going to have spend a sunday cleaning coffee out of my keyboard. |
Leo -you are one funny dude-you and your buddy Adolf are correct :the A380 is a horrible looking aeroplane and the 787 will never fly.
atb |
Leo,
There are /have been, times that I may have had some differences of opinion with you, (although I believe we see in the murky waters the self same reality) but please , accept a Gold Star for Hitlers 787. Truly, you are wasted in your current position . . . Ooh Er :hmm: |
Leo,
Does this mean that things have loosened up re recruitment again. I got a "No assessment thank you" both direct and via BKF but that was in the middle if the `unrest` and the freeze. Or was because I`m an old sod? `Cos I ticked all the boxes several times over! :ok: |
Self-employed?
There has been a bit of chat here about contract pilots being self employed for tax purposes.
If you are at all involved in this I draw your attention to the thread I started yesterday. There has been some feedback but I was hoping to hear more from `the horses mouth` as it were. :ok: |
Gatwick Base?????
Is this likely? Are there rumours doing the rounds that we will open at LGW? Please let it be so, this could be the best news ever!!!!
|
New UK Base
Is this likely? Are there rumours doing the rounds that we will open at LGW? Just announced :- Yorkshire evening post Published Date: 11 August 2009 Low-cost airline Ryanair today announced it is to set up a base at Leeds Bradford International Airport creating hundreds of new jobs. Ryanair boss Michael O'Leary was at the airport to make the announcement, which the Dublin-based airline said would have a "significant impact" on the Yorkshire region. Bit of a U turn considering the banner headlines from Ryanair.com on 23rd June, announcing no more expansion in the UK ! BROWN'S £10 TOURIST TAX RESULTS IN UK GROWTH FREEZE Does MOL say one thing but mean another ? surely not ....... Seems like you got it wrong (again) LEO :) |
Seems like you got it wrong (again) LEO I can't see any post where Leo quite clearly states that LGW will be the new base. Fairly obvious to those of us with any commercial sense that either LBA or MME / NCL would be higher up the pecking order. Chance are that the first base in the frozen North East will be MME as it is geographically better placed to exploit the catchment area being at the southern end of the conurbation in comparison to NCL on the northern side. |
Completely off topic I guess, But thanks Leo, that link is some of the funniest !!!! i've seen for ages. Passed my night down route just nicely. Guys, don't just stop at the boeing video, check out all of Hitler's others. Especially the "wrong bike" I'm still pissing my pants.....:ok:
|
my tupence worth.......
makes you laugh UK freeze....for at least 2 weeks...what a joke! day_dreamer no idea what base you re at but the vast majority of FO friends around the ryr network flew around the 700 hours mark last year, only now in July and August is it picking up but ofcourse will die off again in the winter. Gatwick is an obvious choice more flights going in there plus the chance to have another pop at Lingus..it ll be a base sooner rather than later. |
Leeds Bradford Base
A good time to sell any Dart group shares i would think.
Jet2 have an announcement on 18th re winter, this might make them rethink! |
A Customer's Thoughts on RYR
It seems that word is getting around about the "customer service" at RYR. Read it here: The Spectator
Last chance for Krakow. ‘Last chance for Krakow. Krakow only. Sir, I am not interested in Belfast. When I DECIDE to be interested in Belfast I will inform you. Until then wait your turn and rejoin the queue. Step aside Madam, if you will.’ Robert pointed to a woman with two small children. ‘You’re not listening. I am aware of the fact everyone here wants to board. I understand your concerns, but I am currently processing Krakow. Krakow ONLY. Now, step back behind the barrier and wait patiently.’ Poor guy. He must have known he was asking the impossible. Robert was Ryanair’s Messenger of Doom — a role I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy. Looking down at his clipboard and wiping the sweat from his brow he barked out another destination I’d never heard of. ‘Listen up. Final call for Toss-off. Toss-off only.’ A rush of demented passengers pushed aside three surgically masked Japanese tourists before bravely squaring up to him. ‘We’ve been queuing for over three hours,’ spat the elected ringleader with undisguised and furious contempt. ‘Our flight to Toulon leaves in under five minutes. We haven’t even checked in. What kind of a joke airline is this?’ Robert had no answer. He just shrugged helplessly and turned his attention back to Krakow. Toulon was beyond his control. Belfast was beyond his control. Actually, if truth be told, pretty much everything was beyond his control at Stansted airport last Saturday afternoon. Trust me it was a special form of hell. Personally, I’m staggered Michael O’Leary still bothers to employ pilots to fly his aircraft. He’s successfully managed to eliminate virtually every other form of service — failing only in his attempt to charge for in-flight access to the lavatories — so why he decided to draw the line at pilots is a mystery to me. Ryanair takes no-frills flying to new depths. This is not no frills — this is frayed, fraught and deeply flawed flying. This is an airline that has the arrogance, audacity and breathtaking inefficiency to see fit to open only 11 check-in ‘bag drops’ to deal with 255 flights on 1 August — traditionally the busiest travel day of the year — to ‘process’ (God forbid Ryanair ever employs the word ‘service’) thousands of passengers. The scene at Stansted made the madness one encounters at Mumbai looked controlled. It was sheer mayhem. Passengers were grid-locked and grim-faced as flight after flight took off without ever being announced. One gentleman gamely shoved through the crowds, jumped up on to an empty desk and made an impassioned speech imploring Ryanair to take control. His pleas fell on deaf ears. I’m a great advocate and consumer of no-frills, economic travel. I can’t afford not to be. Needs must. I don’t ever expect to be pampered, spoilt or even comfortable when travelling on a bargain airline. I understand the concept behind ‘getting exactly what you pay for’ and don’t have a problem with it. My mantra has always been, it’s not where you start your journey — it’s where you end up on holiday that really counts. Hundreds of passengers last Saturday were not even given that opportunity. The disorganisation, ineptitude and lack of compassion shown by Ryanair was truly shameful. I did manage to check in, but only just and only by default. Our house guests weren’t so lucky. Never again. I’m checking out. |
Could this be the ruse RYR uses to force everyone to check-in online? OK if you're going away for only a couple of days with hand baggage only. In August for the summer hols you're likely to have more than shorts & a T-shirt. It doesn't matter how expensive he makes the baggage charge, he'll never eliminate the need for a suitcase for some people. However, what he will do is drive customers to the competitors who do not charge rediculous amounts for normal accessories. If you compare just ej & RYR and take into account the baggage allowance + hand bag allowance, the FINAL cost (which to you & me = ticket price) can be cheaper on the 'more' expensive airlines. Throw in the majors for comparison and often they are cheaper than LoCo's at the end of the day, and with more flights at more convenient times and to more convenient places.
If you arrive at the suggested -2.00hrs and cannot checkin on time and miss your flight, who's fault is it and what compensation is there? If RYR cancels flts they have fixed rules, but if they do not given you ample enough chance to even get on the flight surely they could be claimed against. However, proving it might be difficult. For some business travellers, or those with on going flt connections, the cost of missing the flt could be serious. |
Could this be the ruse RYR uses to force everyone to check-in online? Fact is that when you have finally navigated your way past all the nearly disguised charges and then get the £10 per person (not per transaction) card charge you are pretty cheesed off. I reckon that if there was a box at the bottom with a tick option entitled "pisstake charge £5, tick here to complete transaction or go back to square one" most people would tick the bloody box just to be shot of the whole thing! And guess what? MOL knows it!!! This is how he was able to predict all those years ago that there would be a point in the foreseeable future when he would offer the `seat` for free. However, on the subject of taking the pxxs, how can the majors justify the extraordinary hike in fares from business to first? Even I cant drink that much `poo / fine wine / armagnac, on one flight! (I know `cos I`ve tried!!) |
Traditionally First and Business have been the revenue generators for carriers, however, with the retraction in the economy firt and business yields are down and it's y class that has bums on seats.
|
bums on seats
It's the bums running Ryanair that worry me :)
|
From an economic standpoint, they seem to be doing an ok job of it..
it's a commercial environment. that is, customers have the choice to fly FR, they are not forced by any government dictum, nor is MOL standing over anyone, whip in hand, as they surf the internet looking for lift between x and y. They are free to choose FR, EZ, BA, KLM, Air France, Big Bertha's Air Taxi and Flying school, whoever. |
Most of the cadets I know are 600-700hrs for the year, took me 9 months to get over the 500hr barrier.
|
McBruce is right, most guys at my base(myself included) are doing 50-60 hours pr month. And we`re talking summmer months here, the coming winter season is gonna be cold og very, very dark....:sad:
|
I think it is depending of the base you are positioned at.
|
| All times are GMT. The time now is 15:07. |
Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.