They will find a way...just like they found a way to get away with a very very mediocre pay increase during a red hot pilot market whilst making profit after profit and close to 1 billion Pounds in cash.

Pilots (just like most other folks) are unfortunately very gullible and are easily scared into something.

It all comes down to what one believes that they are worth. Well...most cadets will "fly for food" and most older captains have a family to think about. That leaves senior FO's that are thinking/kissing ass about their command and junior captains that are new in the LHS.

Joe_bar, which ones of those people that I mentioned above do you think will refuse to sign a local contract? Or do you think that Balpa will come to the rescue? :{

Local Contract
 

Local contract will soon be forced upon Easyjet, which will definetely abuse th situation!!
There are many politics involved and even If I am sure AH is pleased to see that he will able to put the union out for a while don't forget to look into the TNA scheme and the strong ties that there are between the ECA unions, European comission is also trying to change some rules making collective bargaining easier and more efficient!

Go and check on the web, you will find lots of usual info!

PGA - You have answered that question yourself! Dont you see it?! You are not prepared to go to ind action over the latest "offer". Cant you see that this is potentially (probably??!!) the LAST chance we have to make a stand? This is not really about the pay "deal" at all any more. Its about sending a clear signal that we are united and stand strong as a group. With a strong "no" vote now we stand a much better chance to be taken seriously by the company, a greater chance to be consulted before they try to impose future local contracts, loss of T&Cs etc etc.

Good luck to all! Im afraid you'll need it......:(

/CP

Kraut

You have completely missed my point!

I am not saying that easyjet give you all these options. I am asking if there is any other low cost airline that gives more (or even comes close)than the following:

75 grand a year plus around 10 grand sector pay. Oh I nearly forgot, a bonus of 10% of basic this year as he has been with the company 5 years. So let us call that 93 grand a year.

Oh and I also very nearly forgot as well that he told me he got 2 weeks worth of salary last summer in shares, whats that about 2500 grand (around 2.5% on top of last year's pay rise)? Let us call the total 95 grand ish this year.

He also tells me that given the 5/3/5/4 roster pattern, he gets plenty of time off to spend it.

Given what I have said above is there any other low cost airline that gives all of this and.....

More than 7% pension.
and
Private health care.
and
Less than 850-900hrs a year.(I believe very few are actually doing this!)
and
no randon rostering at all.
and
Share options Have the company not already given various share options throughout the years?
and
Can tell me what I will be paid in 4 years time, let alone still be employed.

And so far, no one has been able to give me an answer.

Are easyjet recruiting this year???????

Oh by the way, I believe that it is the European governments that are enforcing local contracts - and I am not surprised. Do foreign nationals who work with easyjet in the UK pay UK Tax?

If they do then why shouldn't crews on a UK contract working and living in Europe pay local governemnt tax and NI etc. If they live in a particular country and use that country's "services" then surely it is only right and proper that they contribute towards them?

I believe that in the UK sympathy strikes are not allowed. However as far as I am aware the union can insist that we do not cover routes in dispute. Therefore if for example the German bases go on strike we can hold out and not fly their routes. Maybe someone in the know can confirm this.

albertoli,

I have been at easy for 4+ years. Although I am waiting with a lot of others for a command course (maybe this year, maybe next), I write this as a SFO, for SFOs - the future of the company.

I sold my house to pay for the job. This has screwed me. Being taken out of the housing market is not good to say the least.

I earn £39,000. This month I took home £2,350. I have yet to find a comparable airline that pays a 4 year, 4,000 hour SFO this little.

My pension will mature at £11,000 pa. Maybe they'll throw in a cardboard box.

I have received bonuses over the last 4 years. They include (in no particular order): a book, a biro, some arse wipes (I am not joking) and a bottle of shampoo.

If I look on ppjn, I find my earnings at the very bottom of the list. Luckily, there are redeeming features - most notably the fact that the recruitment department, for all their failings, are good at filtering out the idiots.

2350 per month!?

At a UK base I used to get a grand more than that as an SFO.

@100%
Well, you knew what your future would probably look like when you sold, didn´t you ?
If your salary is too low, why did you

a) sell your house still ?
b) join easyJet, instead one of those airlines paying "more" ? (Not too many around, hm ?)

With 4 years and 4k hours you probably joined as a cadet with an empty logbook. No problem.

But before I sell my house I gather my facts and by the time you joined EZY
your salary was even 14% lower ! (payrise of 4% in 2004, another 5%+5% 2005/6).

So why the hell did you do it then ?? :hmm:

£39,000 for a year 4 SFO is a lot lower than I expected to see. I work for a loco on the b737 and at year 1 was on £43,200 basic and then at year 3 it will be £45,000. With allowances and flying roughly 700hrs a year take over £3100 a month.

I know its your payslip but how can this be right?

Either:
1) Hundrendpercentplease is on a TRSS contract. (£39k is basic TRSS SFO salary). Though unlikely for someone who joined as a low hours recruit.
2) Hundrendpercentplease is on a Cadet salary and paying off (approx £80K) Zero Hours-Type Rating training over the course of 7 years via a reduced salary.
3) Hundrendpercentplease is on a part time 75% deal (clue's in the user name).

Apron, those numbers sound about right.

I'm also TRSS FO and I get about £3200/month, but you need to subtract about £420 for the TRSS repayment. That breaks down to roughly £2800/month, NETTO!

Multiply that by 12 and you get an idea how little we earn per year for the grueling hard work that we do... :{

It's really sad to see that people are naive enough to be 'happy' with this and do not have the stomach to fight for a better deal.

The clue is in the username, I am not a cadet - I came from turboprops and am on the TRSS scheme. At the time, it was very difficult to get a job anywhere, and there was the perception that you could get "stuck" on a tp. So I felt I had done well to make the jump to a proper company, despite the financial madness. I realise now, with my salary and pension all reduced because of this, the huge cost of living whilst unpaid waiting for and doing the TR, the rise in the housing market and so on, that I would probably have been better waiting for a bit and getting a job with a carrier who didn't rob you blind.

My starting salary was £35k. The first 4% payrise exposed the fact that my salary was a "mistake" (ie too high) and so it didn't apply to me.

The salary now is indeed £39k. I have of course quoted a low month, but most see between £3150 and £2900. From this you have to deduct the £430 loan repayment, leaving £2700 to £2450. Last month I had leave, hence the £2350.

So albertoli, which comparable airline pays less than this - for a 4 year SFO?

Concentrate on your own lot!
 

I get really irate reading some of the posts on here from people who DO NOT work for easy and feel we are greedy, spoilt kids!

Tell me, what is wrong with those who have a stake in a company and see their long term future within a company standing up for what they believe is fair? I don't care what others earn, so please don't come on here saying we earn more than you! If you don't work for this company then I'm seriously dubious as to why you've got such strong views on our plight. Why not concentrate on your own lot and let others get on with concentrating on theirs.

I don't comment on what Flybe, BA, Virgin, XL yadee yadee yadee earn, because I don't work for them, and frankly, it's none of my business.

Easyjet cant afford to give the pilots a decent pay rise when the company keeps making record profits :=

Yet AH gets his £900,000 bonus :rolleyes:

I'm all for paying people for their efforts so it's time to start sharing the love guys before EJ manage to divide and conquer the pilot workforce.

I personnally don't want to strike. However I don't want to get shafted either.


Lets make a stand guys, probably last chance. :ok:

Don't be so bloody lazy! Have a look on their website at the bottom under "jobs." It only takes a few seconds! :hmm:

Well well.

Hundredpercentplease,

sorry to hear you had to sell your house. However, is it not true that a lot of pilots join up as TRSS or on another type of contract and as soon as they get in they complain about the contract they have signed up for; happens in a lot of companies. I think you have to look towards your potential earnings in the near future.

As a 4000 hours SFO, and the fact that you have been in the company 4+ years, I am surprised you are not already well into the cammand process because my mate tells me you only need 3000 factored hours for command. You must have achieved that a while ago given what some have been saying about how many hours you guys in easyjet fly per year. If you joined another major airline you would still have some time to do before you are even looked at for command.

B737 200

I thought this was a discussion forum - don't matter who you work for free speech and all that.

"My mate says this...my mate thinks that." Are you two lovers or something like that?

Why don't YOU join EZY yourself and find out first hand what life is like in EZY before you start posting about how 'wonderful' EZY is?

Albertoli

Correct, this is a forum for all to contribute and I say it's all the better for it.

However, you are posting on something from the outside ... i.e. you are not so well informed, yet feel you can post with such certainty about things "because your mate works here". Well, my mates work in other airlines, but I don't join into their debates posting what are provocative comments in sensitive times. Sorry mate, but it shows a lack of professionalism and certainly a lack of manners.

You're free to post what you like on here, but just what do you wish to achieve by getting people's backs up?

I'm not against you posting reasoned comments for or against, as that's what healthy debate is about. But frankly, unless you work here and know the facts, I doubt you're really qualified to comment. Fortunately, we have a forum which filters out all the noise, it's called the BALPA forum ;)

Perhaps your mate should be posting on here with a counter arguement if things are so wonderful.

Now, please don't draw me into an arguement with you. I don't take kindly to wind-up merchants!

Oh dear.

I do not think any of my comments have been unreasonable and I think that the facts I have posted are pretty much correct.

They are certainly not intended to wind people up.

Alberto, I think you think too much!:bored:
A lot of lives have been lost in aviation because people were thinking instead of knowing!

Albertoli,

You said:You might want to re-read the very first line of my post here:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpos...&postcount=130

I spent time on turboprops, so I only reached the factored hours requirement last year. It takes months waiting for check flights and sim, and now I, with quite a few others, are waiting for the elusive command course.

I am not complaining about my rotten contract. I signed it, and it is my fault. It is also the fault of all the hundreds of others that signed it, and those who continue to sign it today.

I am simply responding to your opinion, clearly derived from your mates observations, that we are very well paid.

I am voting NO - because I earn less than any other similar pilot in any other comparable airline.

No amount of you telling me how well off I am will change my opinion, thanks anyway.

It's a very difficult thread to read when you consider the pilots and cabin crew at easy gave their management team a record 80% satisfaction rating in a recent empoyee survey. Why would you even consider it strange that the company would take that result out for a spin....as an outsider it looks like a huge own goal. They knew they were in the driving seat, because you put them there. Well done! There was never going to be a negotiation, because when you had your chance you told them you were content/satisfied with your T&Cs, and they knew all that before the pay talks ended....because you told them!

next year = :oh:

Having worked for several different airlines over many years I am somewhat surprised at the idea that easyjet pilots might be contemplating a strike. In my experience, in recent memory, strikes have rarely or never achieved their desired objectives.
In this industry, most strikes have occured just prior to a company going out of business. I do not see easyJet going out of business in the near future.
Why do people go on strike? Because all other avenues have failed to produce the desired result.
Why has the desired result failed to occur? Because the employees feel that their pay and conditions have slipped so far behind the industry standard that they feel strongly enough to make a fuss.
Believe me, pay and conditions in easyjet are a very long way from the worst in this industry, be it in UK or Europe.
The pilots will not strike because they have little to gain. Even if easyJet were to concede and pay them the best rates in the industry, they would not be so very far from where they are now.
They already get close to the best T&Cs in the LOCO market and only blinkered and naive newcomers to this job think otherwise.
Do some research and examine exactly what you are getting compared to others in the same situation.
Talk to your management and make a deal.
Whatever deal you make will be unsatisfactory to many who think that they deserve more. But that has always been the case in aviation.
I am worth far more than that!
I deserve more because someone else gets this much!
I want, I want, I want.
I don't want management making lots of money.
I want some of their bonuses.
I do the work and they get the money.
Me, me, me, me.
For goodness sake, stop whingeing and get on with the job.
Pathetic and sad, all of you who are advocating a strike.
Save it for something important.

Ah the Pulse survey...

Sorry baxfactor, but I really can't remember having seen questions of the survey relating to our T&C's. Perhaps someone here can prove me wrong.

I'm not sure I can post what the questions actually were on a public forum, so to be sure I won't, but I can tell you they were along the lines of "Do you feel commited to the succes of the company, do you have friendly colleagues etc etc.

So what the survey reflects is simply that we are commited to the company's success, and that most of us a proud to work for easyJet. I, for one certainly feel this way. However, this doesn't mean we shouldn' seek to make easyJet the carreer airline it ought to be. A lot of issues remain to be dealt with, but this won't be possible if the hundreds of new joiners think like Albertoli et al.

Rubik, what a load of rubbish!!

If I follow your somewhat confused reasoning, we should NOT try to improve our package because we are already at the top end of what other LOCO's offer!? What you are saying is that we should wait until what we have gained over the years gets chipped away, because we are the best paid in the LOCO market. This is crazy. How can we try to improve the general terms and conditions in the loco market if we don't try and increase the standard?

We've been trying for the past few months, and what was "offered" by management was a pure insult on our intelligence. You do realize there is what we call a negociation process? We are now at the final offer, ie the company will NOT come back around the table. If the ballot result for the final offer is rejected then we will be issued with a ballot for industrial action. That's how things work, but you don't seem too familiar with that do you? Have you ever been in a union or are you just eager to sit on the sideline and reap the benefits of the efforts of others?

:rolleyes::ugh:

Nobody said that. We understand that management have a huge reponsibilty over the success or failure of the company. Therefore we accept that they are rewarded accordingly.

For goodness sake you are unbelievable. We don't want their bonuses. We would like some form of recognition other than a pat on the back and a sub-inflation offe. Is this to much to ask, or to understand?

Rubik101 is obviously one of those persons that are scared of everything in life and let others take control of their lives...

They had one bad experience (taxes or management) caused by their own bad judgment, and now they have a sudden urge to 'warn' everybody else for the impending disaster...

Those are exactly the kind of people that EZY wants: people scared sh!tless, easily manipulated into believing the latest orange propaganda...

A couple words of advice: get some balls and a spine then you'll find that life will be a hell of a lot easier!

Is it a requirement to be angry and ignorant to post on here?
ZB, I have been on a company PLC and on a BALPA Committee for many years. I have negotiated through many hours with management and generally, over the years, acheived fairly good results. Thats how it's done. Some years you gain a lot, some you gain a little and in some years people mutter about strikes. Strikes achieve nothing in this bussiness. Wait and see what happens in BFS this week and then tell me I'm wrong.
As for bokkenwhatever's comments, well, just plain ignorant seems to suffice in your case.

In life you have to know when it's time to stand up for yourself and when it's time to give in. You have to know which battles to pick and which battles you want to avoid.

IMHO this battle (not necessarily a strike though) we will have to fight. If we don't stand up now, there will be no more BALPA for that famous "next battle" that we always read about on the BALPA forum.

After this 'pay deal', what's the incentive of staying with BALPA? Six earlies in a row for "lifestyle" reasons? There will be no more members as the divide and conquer tactics of management have paid off. The gloves have come off, AH has turned out to be a bit of a wolf in sheep's clothing and with Dutchman CV it's a new ballgame. If we're not very careful, EZY will soon have to paint orange harps on the tail.

Give in now, wait a year or so and then tell me if I'm wrong...

First of all I am not angry, just a bit annoyed about some of the comments posted here by people who are obviously not easyJet employees, but who nevertheless think they know better, and who find it appropriate to lecture us on how lucky we are etc. Secondly, do you work for eJ? Are you aware of the whole issue in all its details? If not, then I am afraid the word "ignorant" might apply to you too...

Once again, I do not wish to strike, BUT if the ballot results are negative and we do vote for some form of Industrial Action, then I will support what the majority of the membership has decided.

Back to the original topic:

The EZY pay deal offer gets more and more ridiculous! Just over the german news:

Cabin personal LTU gets 3% backdated beginning 2007 and 2% from july 2008.
Reflecting this on the German inflation rate and that LTU is not really making profits, so what is the EZY deal worth?:confused:

Yeah, I know, the next battle will be a tough one!

NO vote in the mail! :mad:

I flew with a captain the other day and asked him what he thought of the new deal, he said that he thought it was a poor deal but he voted yes because we weren't going to get a better offer!!!! I nearly gave up the will to live at that point......:ugh:

Well well.

Sarah737

Please be assured that it is ok to think too much especially when sitting on the ground. I do not think many lives in aviation have been lost sitting thinking in front of a computer whilst reading PPRUNE.

Hundredpercentplease

My comments were based on the following:

If you flew props previously and have been with easy 4+ years then I would have expected you to have reached the 3000hrs factored before now. From what I have read in this forum the easy pilots are flying 850-900hrs per year therefore let me do the math. With this in mind, 4+ years with easy you should have at least 3600hrs FACTORED??? (then you have your prop hours to add on).

Now, you are not happy about your pay and conditions (even though you signed up to them) and have said that you are in the command process. I think you need to not be so blinkered in your approach and vote no. Vote how you like, I really do not care, but if you are successful in the command process and get your command let's say in the sprin of next year, you will be on a salary of say around £85000 (an educated guess). Now, which other airline will give you command with your experience level in 5 years of joining the company? I think if you joined another airline, given your experience level, it will take longer than 5 years to earn that amount of cash - don't you think?

Rubik101

Well said that man.

ZBman

the pay deal may not be that great this year but was the last pay deal a good one? If it was I do not think you can exppect to get a very good pay deal every year. Some years you have some good ones and some years not so good. At the end of the day it is a pay rise and not a freeze.

If you are a BALPA member and the vote is for industrial action you will have to strike anyway - you will have to support the membership whether you like it or not.

Bokkenrijder

Balls and a spine eh? There are a lot of miner out there who thought the same as you 20 years a go. They have balls and a spine but no job?

Kraut

Please do not confuse the issue with cabin crew pay. This thread relates to pilot pay. Anyway, I do not know what your point is here. Are easy not offering something like 4.4%??? Is this not better than 3% and even 2%????

Albertoli,
If it winds you up so much how much Easy pilots earn, don't read this thread.

To be honest getting wound up by other peoples business suggests a stress level that is not good for the health.

ALBERTOLI

You wrote:.......Are easy not offering something like 4.4%??? Is this not better than 3% and even 2%????............


I mentioned the cabin crew pay increase only to show, how marginal the EZY pilot deal is! The LTU pilots got even a better deal. And we have also to look at the continent, as EZY claims to be a "paneuropean" airline!

And I said, please read carefully, "reflecting on inflation"!

UK inflation about 4% payraise 4,7% = real plus about 0.7%

German inflation 1,8% payrise 3% = real plus about 1,2%

Also, this is higher mathematics, I hope you discover my point now???

And the LTU deal is backdated beginning of the year, the EZY two year deal starts in october!!!!

Please correct me if I'm wrong Kraut but isn't it a good thing that Easy bases the payrise on UK inflation since it one of the highest in Europe?

On that premises you will get a 4,7-1.8+=2,9% payrise?

So, the european bases will actually be better of then the UK bases.

But I'm sure if you suggest to the company that you will get the same 1,2% plus that the LTU cabin crew get, they will be more then happy to give it to you!

also, the reason why the paydeal is not backdated to Jan is because the negotiations are for next year! If you remember, last time the negotiations took so long that I only got the backpay in July - backdated from October!

So this year they made an early start to negotiations to prevent this from happening!

True, but... we'll all be on "local" contracts within the next few months. I dare not imagine how future pay negotiations will go. This is why we must try and secure the best pay deal NOW. Once we're on local contracts it will be too late.

I agree, and that is a completely different matter.

What I'm trying to say is that the offer isn't all that bad, and certainly not bad enough to strike over.

Reading comments made by, for example, Kraut aren't helping our situation at all. I can understand why he is upset about his wage, he suddenly has to start paying tax! As much of of a shock that might be, the people based in germany could not expect this to last forever.
To then complain and say 'we' only have a 0.7% payrise and LTU in germany have a 1,2% payrise isn't fair according to me.
First of all, the inflation has dropped in the UK, so for UK based people the actual increase is slightly higher. Second of all, once more, the european bases get even more spendable income.

Do I think we should split the pilot community up? defenitely not. I think we should all be unionised and have one negotiating team for the whole community.
Pay increases shouldn't talk about RPI anymore, it doesn't reflect our european operation. Rather give us the number we get(what has happened) and then we can compare for ourselves whether it is worth it.
A majority vote would give the final vote, simple as that.