nuageblanc,

Qu'est-ce qu'on t'a fait quand t'étais petit pour que tu sois aussi puant? On se connait pour que t'en aie apres moi comme ça, et que tu saches comment je m'appelle?

I don't know what the hell's your problem, but you do seem in need of some psychological counseling! Oh and thanks for stating my real name, I'm sure our management knows nothing about pprune! You do realize that was a pretty stupid thing to do, don't you?

now back to the subject

But just to make things clear. I do not want to strike, no one does. BUT in a few days we'll be voting to accept or not the new "offer", which is the same as the previous one, which was rejected by the membership. If this one is also rejected then we will be automatically issued with a ballot for industrial action. That's the way the procedure goes, and it has nothing to do with "whining pilots wanting to teach management a lesson" as nuage blanc and his buddies seem to think.
I for one am extremely worried, and disappointed about the hard ball tactics of CV et al, as I and everyone else I know is totally commited to the company's success, and have no plan on leaving as nuageblanc suggests. We make huge efforts to keep the show going every day, and we'd like a bit more recognition, not just a 'thank you' from mangement, and a 0.5 percent pay rise.

Zbman, your company is making money thanks to the nice managers ! not thanks to you ! there is a long queu for joining easyjet and everybody would love to have a 5453 roster and earning what you earn at easyjet !
thats it !:ok:

Goddam it, foolish white cloud,
get out of this post and go back to kindergarten!:\

Nice managers!! I love that one.

Maybe it's the sense of humor I don't get.

:ugh:

I guess the Easy pilots would be happy to take a pay freeze, if they could have the bonus as the "nice" managers have had in recent years!

Nice managers?

:D

Thats the best way of showing that you know !!!! all about aviation.

ED

QUOTE]Look at the guys at LTU going on strike at the summer holiday.[/QUOTE]

91% of the LTU-pilots voted. 96% for a strike. They recognized the need to fight against the CEO A. Hunold, who fights the pilot union!

Let´s see what EZY pilots will achieve? I have my doubts!

Pay terms and conditions
 

What is the present pay for Easyjet Captains in Madrid and potential increase
and the other conditions exactly summarized ?

If you don't mind ?

Cheers

91% of ltu pilots voterd, 58% of easyjet pilot did....
This is not very encouraging!
I think pilots should care a bit more of their T&C!
HA

Oh, they do. They wait for the next time to fight the real battle! (whatever battle this might be?)
As I said, if they have the chance to!?

Airlines are nothing without pilots that put their @ss everyday on aircrafts taking serious responsabilities of the safety of their flights.
managers and companies would be nothing if people like us wouldn't do the job of a safe, serious and professional operation.

You would be nothing without us! remember it...

Grow up
 

All this "we're more important than you" bulls@it that happens on here is pathetic. An airline is a complicated business. A pilot is no more or less important than an engineer, a cleaner, a marketeer etc etc. The whole thing is a machine with lots of cogs of varying sizes that can knacker the whole system if a part of it doesn't work properly. Get over it. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

From what I hear, it looks like the dutch guy is close to his first victory! I am afraid for the easy friends it won't be the last one...

Nuageblanc,

Apres quelques jours de reflexions je me sens dans le besoin de repondre a tes postings plutot ignorants qu autre chose.

Bien que je ne travaille plus chez EZY, j'y ai travaille pendant presque 6 ans.
EZY est une superbe compagnie, qui en effet offre des roles 5/4/5/3 etc, le salaire est en general assez bon, pension etc sont de meme.

Ce qu il faut que tu comprennes, c est que si EZY est une "si boone compagnie" c est en partie/majorite grace a ses pilotes et personels de cabine, ces gens travails dans le plus grand professionalisme et sous pression constante pour que tout fonctionne comme une horloge suisse.

La seule chose que les employes (pas que les pilotes) souhaitent c est une reconnaissance, quand moi je travaillais la, apres 2 ans de service je recevais une fois par an 5% de mon salaire comme bonus si la compagnie montrait des benefices, apres 5 ans on recevait 10%, etc.

Toutes ces conditions sont terminees bien que la compagnie fassent de plus en plus de benefices.

Comme tout bon employe, les pilotes recherchent une reconaissance sous forme d augmentation.

Biensure, ils ne sont pas les seules pilotes a voler par toutes conditions meteorologiques dans des couloirs aeriens tres occupes etc, malgre tout comme tu decouvriras bientot dans ta nouvelle compagnie, le petit et moyen courrier de nos jours sont tres fatiguants.

Tu viens juste de commencer dans un compagnie regionale (subsidiaire D Air France) avec probablement l occase de passer chez Air France, j aimerais bien te voir discuter avec ton "futur Commandant" ex Baron de l' Atlantique d Air France qu il ne doit pas demander d augmentation de salaire parceque il touche deja assez de primes...crois moi, tu ne te feras pas beacoup d amis de cette maniere la.

Dans quelques annees, tu comprendras que de voler pour des cacahuettes ca ne paie pas les factures quand t' as une famille...ce n est pas parceque tu es bien paye qu il ne faut pas revoir les salaires ou conditions a la hausse, surtout quand tu participes activement a la reussite de ta boite.

Quand j ai commence a voler, mon premier chef pilote m'a dit: don't ever piss anybody off on the way up because you will meet them on the way down, et ca mon cher collegue c est le plus grand conseil que moi je puisse te donner en lisant des postings sur Pprune.

Si tu as des questions ou tu veux repondre a mon post n hesite pas a le faire sur mon private mail.

Bonne Chance.

Lifestyle Issues
 

Having worked for Easyjet I would have to say that lifestyle improvements would be more important than a big payrise.

None of the above posts have addressed this issue.

Working 5 earlies in a row and then the fatigue of 5 lates with long FDP's is just not sustainable in the long term.

It would be hard to argue that the pay is not reasonable.I am not arguing however that a fair pay rise is not also due.
The lifestyle however is a killer in the long term.

Whilst the economy is running hot and airlines worldwide are expanding it is a make or break time for the improvement of pilot conditions at EZY and many other airlines the world over.

Unity and support for your pilot association is the only way forward.Sadly pilot psyche is easily manipulated by management.A silly post from a French wannabee has already received heated replies rather than knowing when to ignore a trouble maker with no credibility.
Divide and conquer has worked well for many airlines around the world.

Best wishes to all the crews at EZY.Stick to your guns and back BALPA. All pilots stand to gain when you do.

TOLONGINCRUISE

Just as info. Lifestyle is important, but it was not on the negotiations agenda this time.
A survey (for BALPA members) showed the mainpoint "money".

Ah tis dissappointing that just because a few people do not agree with the likes of ZBMAN they are dammed to rot in hell. Please remember that this is a discussion forum and everyone is entitled to their say, even the young French chap who flies the CRJ. His point is still valid that we all fly in the same airspace and same weather, however many hours he has.

Now my mate, and yes I do have one, just the one mind (not including the wife) tells me that pay and conditions are pretty good at easy. So perhaps the more well informed can help me out here?

He is in the LHS and gets about 75 grand a year plus around 10 grand sector pay. Oh I nearly forgot, he also gets a bonus of 10% of basic this year as he has been with the company 5 years. So let us call that 93 grand a year.

Oh and I also very nearly forgot as well that he told me he got 2 weeks worth of salary last summer in shares, whats that about 2500 grand (around 2.5% on top of last year's pay rise)? Let us call the total 95 grand ish this year.

He also tells me that given the 5/3/5/4 roster pattern, he gets plenty of time off to spend it.

Now, can someone tell me if there is another low cost airline that pays the same or more AND gives such a good stable roster pattern?

Just wondering that was all.

If you think his point is valid you have not understood what MY point was. I have flown with others airlines than easyJet, and although I do enjoy the 5354, and although I must admit that the pay isn't too bad, this was not the main reason I joined. Now compared to my previous job, I find working days in easyJet are much more challenging, for a huge number of reasons. have you done many 6 sectors days in the UK, all in LVP conditions trying to maintain a decent schedule with 25 mn turnarounds? That's a common thing in certain bases with easyJet. The work we do is much harder than most other jobs. Is this so hard to understand? You, nuageblanc and our management must be the only people in this industry not to understand this. :ugh:

Yeah, and he/she also gets a free heart attack by the age of 50 if one continues the 'healthy' lifestyle that we live.

Many psychologists agree that people get what they feel that they are worth. That's how a beggar is happy with £1,- and that's why many rich people (rightly or wrongly) feel they are worth the mega bucks that they earn.

This also explains why many people who win the lottery will again lose the money they won, simply because their mindset is not in sync with the sudden financial wealth.

I find it sad to see that some people in EZY obviously do not feel worthy of a good salary in return for the hard work we do every day, while management obviously do feel worthy of receiving huge bonuses/share option schemes for the mess they make. :{

Albertoli.
Your "friend" forgot to tell you the best bits.

7% pension.
No private health care.
850-900hrs a year.
3 months randon rostering each year.
Q1. How many shares did he get this summer...?
Answer, none (yet) we live in hope.
Q2. What will his pay be in 4 years time?
Answer, exactly the same, unless BALPA goes through pay negotiations each time.

Don't misunderstand me there are far worse employers but you need to ask your "friend" some more searching questions.

Don't you love it when they cherry-pick the best bits. Last time I checked EZY had one of the worst pensions in the industry,crap lol, crap sick pay and no health care. Take all that out of your supposed 93K and see where you end up. I don't know anybody who has recently lifted anywhere near that.

It's bloody well better than Jet2. We work 6 days on 2 off and nothing like the salary or benefits offered at EZY. 10 days sick at full salary in any 12 month period and then you are on you own.

Oh, and sometimes we get our roster 5 days before the present one runs out - and besides the roster constantly changes so I suppose it doesn't really matter.

Have to agree with toolonginthe cruise.... lifestyle is the issue for me. I'd be happy with a rpi salary increase if we could do less of the FDP's that we do! 5 lates of 10 hour plus duty days, 4 sectors with 25 minute turnarounds are no good for a long term career.... hopefully this is what the latest cc bulletin was hinting at today.

Winco Harrison -
 

Winco Harrison - lead your Sqn - a great time to show your mettle,
please don't disregard, this is IMPORTANT !

TartinTon
Well, your remark is a tad superficial... You could ask me "what do you think does make a pilot soo "special"... and there we are, once more, having to defend ourselves... so here, just a couple of reasons I can think of right now that differentiate mr Pilot from others:
- Most of us are fully self funded professionals :ok:
- We bring a set of qualities, mental and physical :cool:
- We cannot work at less than 100% engagement :p
- We have to constantly demonstrate that our skills have not eroded (sim) :hmm:
- We have to make decisions in split decisions (no time to get into the books) :8
- We suffer from known discomforts related to flying :uhoh:
- Statistics show pilots don't age very well past pension age :(

no sponsor
Most of us know the feeling (maybe too well) of working for these kind of companies, well that's the reason most people will change company over the years, the grass is always greener...


live 2 fly 2 live

Nevertheless he has a point.

. But not all and indeed many other professionals are also self funded.


. You think that is a difference ?

. Oh yes we can, and like others often do. Not sure how long you have been doing this, but just read about fatigue, CRM, errors etc and you will quickly realize how untrue that line is as a statement of fact.

. In fact we often demonstrate how "our skills" have eroded. That is why we have continuous training and refreshers in both the sim and on the ground. It is the awareness of such things that should be the first step in correcting and improving our performance.

. I am guessing you mean decisions in split seconds ? However that is often the case in other occupations as well. In fact many (most) decisions do not have to be made in split seconds, and it the ablity to recognise that point that often shows a higher degree of judgement.


. I am sure there are many jobs with discomforts related to their particular environment. Serving soldier rather springs to mind.


.
Ah yes, statistics. Is that the statistics for those who retire at 55, or those who retire at 60 or those who retire at 65. Are the statitiscs relevant to any other particular occupation group that retire at those same age bands ?

It is rather unsafe to be deluded by a sense of your own self importance vis-a-vis other people in other occupations.

Pilots are not dissimilar to a variety of other occupations. We are subject to the vagaries of the laws of supply & demand and any distortions therein. Pilots have a trained skill that places them in a position that may make them irreplaceable in the short term. However that isn't much different from many other occupations.

@ no sponsor So what's wrong with improving our T&C's, then maybe your's will follow or you might profit from our conditions once you join us!!

Post-early nr 5 hallucination
 

Hang on, I can hear something....


I know what it is... it is the beautifull sound of a harp...


Ah I can see it now, it's an orange harp.. and there's a dutch bloke playing it..


But hang on, it's not strings he's using, he's playing stretched pilots...


He's got a big smile on his face and he's thinking:

Damn did I make a good entrance into this company! Record profits and those silly pilots settle for a 20 quid a month effective payrise for F/O's and 40 quid a month for Captains. And they didn't even vote against it, because I bullied the CC into recommending it


His smile gets even bigger and then he starts to sing:

This big fat bonus I'll get will make me a retirement fund, while those annoying pilots will work for Mcdonalds if they ever make it to retirement age...

(I know it doesn't rime but poetry is not generally the first thing people mention when they think of Holland:})


The sad vision is fading as his stretched strings brake and he throws away his harp to find another instrument to play for his own good...

But the paydeal-
is real!
It rimes in a typical german way!:)

Certainly not a career airline Easy, too much like bloody hard work if you ask me. 30 years or so of that and you wont see retirement. You're now victims of your own success, which was inevitable. Low cost has damaged airline career pay and terms/conditions considerably.
If you continue to work such hours then be prepared to take it to down to the wire and strike. I'd fully support your actions as would any other sensibly - minded jet jock.

ZeBedie...
 

Well Zebedie!!! You have now raised your pinkies to hijack another thread relating to negotiations between management and the work force!!!

Have you got some kind of chip on your should, or are you a wannabe who likes to write the talk? Please don`t answer I`m not interested!!

Or maybe you can work for both Easy and Monarch at the same time on your flight SIM.

PS....

Easy guys / girls it will go the ACAS route regardless of hanging out any dirty washing on here.

Portside

he Bealzebub
No no, you really didn't get it, did you... mine is longer than yours, cheers :E

live 2 fly 2 live

Ah Airbrake

I take your point but.....

He is in the LHS and gets about 75 grand a year plus around 10 grand sector pay. Oh I nearly forgot, he also gets a bonus of 10% of basic this year as he has been with the company 5 years. So let us call that 93 grand a year.

Oh and I also very nearly forgot as well that he told me he got 2 weeks worth of salary last summer in shares, whats that about 2500 grand (around 2.5% on top of last year's pay rise)? Let us call the total 95 grand ish this year.

He also tells me that given the 5/3/5/4 roster pattern, he gets plenty of time off to spend it.

Given what I have said above is there any other low cost airline that gives all of this and.....

More than 7% pension.
and
Private health care.
and
Less than 850-900hrs a year.(I believe very few are actually doing this!)
and
no randon rostering at all.
and
Share options Have the company not already given various share options throughout the years?
and
Can tell me what I will be paid in 4 years time, let alone still be employed.

If there is can you please let us all know!!!!!!

ALBERTOLI,
you talk like management. Big words, not knowing the details!:=
Only if you subtract it from your paydeal increase individual to the pension fund
Hello, where?????:confused:
:confused:
Your good friend is lucky, 850hrs is a common number
:\
B..s...it! Nearly 3 month reserve with random rostering, if bad luck loosing vacation days
:confused:
This year reaching probably the performance targets, to execute the options, not at various years!!
ALBERTOLI, give up to make it looking gold, if it is just common bronze!

I doubt very much that anybody wanting to work for easyJet has bothered to read this far, but if they have I can tell them that it's a good place to be.
In the last year I flew 760 hours, earned £98000, made £8000 profit on some share options and had nothing much to complain about.
The deal will almost certainly get accepted then we can all get back to enjoying our flying.

staff travel...ridicolous
 

yeah but nobody talks about staff travel...

Everyone is so concerned about earning maybe 20 stg more a month BUT NOBODY CARE about who is spending around 800 pounds a year for going home... (Not in holiday!!!)
EasyJet is becoming day after day an European company, like the main competitor RYR, but the difference is that they can commute and we don't!!!:ugh:

True, the company is not too bad but there is still a lot work to do in this direction...Even if nobody in BALPA seems to be too worried about it...:D

We are paying a not cheap subscription as well...

I understand your desire for STAFF TRAVEL.
But it was not at the high ranking issue for this years negotiations (result of the survey).
I am just astonished (regarding a strike, maybe!) that a lot of people say. "we can not risk" this for 1%.
And the lovely COO says: "We are not returning to the table for negotiations, before you are really on strike!"

Never ever!!! I want so see this guy explaining to the members of the PLC board incl Stelios, that a strike is taking place just for 1%, not giving to the pilots??
The damage to EZY for 1%, financially and customer orientated, would be much higher! Management is gambling high!
This is not because of 1%, this is because of the future way of EZY negotiations. It is because, who is ruling the direction (power)
The next battle lots are waiting for (2years) BALPA members will be reduced due to local contracts.
And than a strike, I wonder! If the guys in UK try to strike, the "local contract bases" will still fly"
A "EZY Germany" on strike? HaHa! will be covered by all other bases!
Waiting for the next battle means for me: Battle lost already!

Good luck to us all!

My two cents!
I

With the latest offer on the table I`m personally not in favour of a strike anymore. I find it very interesting though, that our fellow colleagues in Ireland have announced a strike to help out the guys being based in Northern Ireland. Howcome they are so united with regards to contractual issues when we aren`t?

PGA

When on local contracts,finally local laws will apply. This means, the local union will be taking over.

Although, there may be a "connection" between the unions, you will hardly be able to strike "together", i.e. VC and BALPA.
The long term strategy of EZY will be to split the pilot community!
You are happy with this deal, come back in two years and than I ask you again!
Most of you are still underestimating the new COO! He will lead the battle.
AH WILL STAY IN THE BACKGROUND1

local contracts
 

How will people be forced to change to a local contract?

Cheers
Joe