There are still jet pilots out there in the UK that are worse off than Monarch so for some people it is still worth joining. These selection of airlines that don't have as good T+C's as Monarch is rapidly reducing though. Does Monarch really want to put themselves at the bottom of the list?

The current management have presided over taking Monarch from nearly the top of the tree, where no one left because of pay / T's and C's to nearly the bottom of the market where very few F/o's stick around and rightly so, if you are on the airbus with Monarch you may as well go orange and get paid a darn site more.

The current (and brand new CEO out to show his boss how good he is) feels that staff moral and satisfaction are high from a few pleasantries being exchanged in the crew room, and that people are prepared to go that extra mile for the good of the company.

The company is operating on goodwill.

He is wrong.

I'd be interested to hear what MON pilots think of the latest rejection on the company's part to begin negotiations based on the payclaim submitted.

Personally I urge the CC to ballot for strike action immeidately.

A bunch of two faced thieving ***kwits, but then that describes most airline management:yuk:

Sphinx - I think that the rejection was always going to happen the company would never roll over that quick at the first meeting.
I was not there but did the company not offer a proposal to what they thought would be a suitable payrise and better T&C's, and if they didnt offer anything did the CC not ask for their thought before leaving the meeting?? By all accounts the meeting was all over by 5 mins.

Just to add, as a year 2 FO, I take home 2600-2700. That is including all flight pay and NO contributions to the pension that is rubbish. If you want to see how this compares with other airlines, see http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=271434

There are no perks other than AXA medical cover, free uniform and allegedly staff travel. I've just booked my summer hols, and I get 85% discount on the ticket, the rest of the family 55%. The price they use is not the quoted internet price, but some other internal one. By the time they added apt, fuel surcharge (oh yes) etc, it worked out the same price as a BA ticket. Needless to say that is what I booked! Oh yes, you do get a free meal as 'staff'.

This years pay negotiations. PB, TJ and RS you have soo misjudged the feeling on the ground. That is two meetings that management have attended and would not even discuss the proposed pay deal, meeting closed after 5 minutes. Let me tell you that this co is heading for a serious industrial confrontation fairly quickly if this attitude continues. All it has done is to harden feelings among the troops, increase the BALPA membership, and in several cases mine included dusting down CV's. Gentlemen, have so misread the whole feeling on the ground.

MON used to be one of the TOP companies to work for. Still is in terms of most of the people I work with, however T&C's have been going down the proverbial 3 degree slope since RS took over, and have recently gone down the London City slope. It's not that long ago that resignations where unheard of, not now. The tally this year runs between 11 and 30 depending on your source, but either way I would not be surprised if that number increases steadily over the next few months. We gentlemen, are in danger of becoming (if not already) a training ground for VS, BA, EJ etc. rather than a career airline. RS, if you think that there is no cost to this, I beg to differ.

Good luck to the CC, you have my continuing support and that goes for everyone I have spoken to.

PS

BA is spooling up hiring again for the training year. Latest we hear is 100 plus this year and with more 777's arriving late next year it is likely to continue.
If you want a considerable raise, better pension and roster stability that is second to none then give it a go. The rest of the perks are nice as well.

Monarch was a good employer to me and the people were great to work with but we all need to look after number one. If they are silly enough to think they can continue their ways on T's and C's then they appear to be fooling themselves. My big problem was the fact that the management did not seemed bothered that retirement was going to be bleak for the newbies.
Rumours around that certain certain foreign operators (LHR bases) are offerring skippers big dough on the 330/340. Any chance some of the trainers and senior chaps could be lured away?

I wouldn't call myself SENIOR senior, but I have been at MON for a while, with that in mind I am rather happy to report that my notice of resignation was forwarded recently to Prospect House:ok:

Goodluck CC and my soon to be ex workmates, I've had enough and have voted with my feet.

Good luck MON MAN! we'll miss ya! :D

Hope it all works out for you :ok:

Monarch Man are you going to where life is Easy or best of British(Airways)?

Sorry Tubby, I wont share that in a public forum until I'm out of my 6 month probationary period:) in case I make a muppet of myself, or more than usual that is! I can say however that neither Easy or Birdseed have the priviledge of my services, but it is a UK carrier with a rather colourful and charasmatic gentleman at its head :ok:

Well done MM!!!
Best of luck - I think RS,TJ and PB could learn a whole lot from your new boss! Shame you are leaving at such an interesting time though!! One can only hope that if management continue to bury their heads in the sand...that they suffocate...:}

Good luck MM, could I ask if you sat in the left or the righthand seat?

one of the initiatives in this weeks 'Monline' is an invitation for Monarch Employees to email their questions to a director. This week its RS's turn...:}

G-AZUK you might find that the email system will be like an A300 this week - broken!!

Just took a phone call off quite a senior F/O who has just handed in his notice, could someone cancel the gas?

:} Where is he going?

Well, it won't be bloody Malaga....

HAHA Touche! :E



uhhhh...... unless he went to EZ :cool:

Just read polar stereos link to airline take home. £4000 for a year one BA F/O??? Thats more than a jnr Monarch Capt makes.
But what really made me want to be sick is £3000 pm for an F/O at Jet 2! Ah noooo no no no, I'm crying, I am the one that has had my head in the sand!
It's been fun and what a fantastic bunch of people but unless managment pull something quite spectacular out of the bag (which I doubt) it will be time to go else where.
Thanks PS for illuminating the quite incredible differential.

Yup makes you :yuk:

Note the hours flown by the Jet 2 driver as well.... 500hrs/yr

:mad:

CC - you did a great job with the new letter to TJ, looking forward to his reply.

Well Ladies and Gents,
Having worked for Monarch up until last November and now moved to pastures orange I would like to say the very best of luck with your negotiations.

Best Regards

Office Pest

.. i am not sure the CC always use their heaviest bat when it comes to pay negotiations ....

it strikes me that MON is still very much in the dark ages when it comes to most things relating to crewing, communications, holidays, lifestyle etc etc. perhaps the "zero cost basis" has been around for much longer than people think ?? examples are :

* rosters which dont have a flight time total for the month

* nearing 90 hours in 28 days and calling up crewing to find out exactly how many hours your on and they cant tell you - you have to call somebody else !

* some feeble "scheduling agreement" where i have to fill in forms and claim "points" each time my duty is changed beyond a few hours to hopefully try and get a day off sometime

* crew not being able to access any information about their up coming flights to see who they flying with nor being able to request duty swaps
... anyway, i digress. coming back to the pay negotiations, my friends at other operators like thomas cook, jet 2, silverjet and XL all take home more than i do, and lets not even consider my friends at virgin and thomsonfly !
i would like to see no further decrease in the current conditions .... lest we end up paying to work !??!?!

i would like to see the introduction of some sort of factored sector pay (at jet2 for an F/O its in the region of GBP7) to reflect the difference between say a PMI and a TCP.

i would like to see a basic salary increase of more than say 2.7% lets remember that for the last 5 or 6 years inflation, but more importantly our "real" cost of living (council tax, heating, petrol etc etc) has far outstripped our meagre "increases", for those years we did get one ! the net effect is that we have probably "lost" GBP 5-10k in real terms over this period. what is going to be done to recoup this ?

i would like to see a new crewing/rostering system implemented with more functionality and one which enables me to have some control over my lifestyle, if other comparable airlines have systems which work why is it MON havent been able to find a system which they think will work ?
i would like to see staff travel improved ... if there are empty seats why can staff not just pay airport taxes and charges ? it would cost the company nothing but would be seen as something tangible ? often it is cheaper for me to book with another airline if i want to go to say spain for a few days ... when i know the MON flights will have 10+ seats available.

.... anyway, call me cynical but i suspect there will end up being some convoluted "agreement" made, hailed as a "victory" by the CC, which will be spread out over a few years, with us having to give up something in return ... all for what - perhaps a basic increase of 4.3% over 2 years ?!?!?
as a pilot i am not looking for a "victory", all i am looking for is a respectable remuneration package which keeps track with real living costs, respect and goodwill from my employer and some choice and flexability when it comes to lifestyle. when i compare myself to other "suitably educated" friends who are accountants, surveyors, architects, lawyers, dentists i realise just how degraded and poor the money and conditions have become and these dont take into account our 6 monthly sim checks, medicals, unsocial reporting hours or the dreaded 18-30 rest periods or the fact that we can lose our livelyhood much easier than any of these other professions.

... why is it that tube and train drivers earn more than most MON F/O's, have better conditions and their companies would never dream of closing a pay negotiations meeting after 5 mins ??? is it because they are prepared to show their frustration with industrial action - if so, perhaps thats a lesson we should learn from ... the only loser in that scenario would be Monarch, and their customers ....

"I hear that even our Dreamliner options have been sold "

Is this indicative of the accuracy and quality of the rest of your reply ?

Scarebus321

"Whether or not the CC will accept a mediocre agreement is another matter"

Surely we all get a vote? There is no process that I'm aware of to allow the CC to accept or decline an offer on anyone's behalf. They just recommend an offer when they believe that they have got enough that most people wouldn't go on strike to get more. If (or more like when) they don't get an offer that meets people asprations then they can ballot for industrial action.

If you don't like what ends up being recommended then vote NO on your ballot paper and vote against the CC when they next stand. Either way posting misleading information on PPRUNE won't help.

MON321
Completely agree.

Scarebus321
Although what you are saying has elements of truth in it - the way you are saying it makes you sound like a total ar$e. Take a chill pill and keep things in perspective.

Would you be able to elaborate on the 787 rumour Bealzebub?

No, because it is all a load of twaddle by someone who has thought better of it and deleted their post.

So, the management again refused to even discuss a payrise.

I fear industrial action is now on its way.

:ugh:

So if there is a strike, where does that leave those pilots who are not members of BALPA?

Working or else they are in breach of contract and putting themselves at risk of dismissal as a result!

So if we strike, what sort of relationship will exist between those who strike and those who work normally? How long will it take for things to get back to normal? Will it get nasty? Fellings are still very strong about the 1989 strike in Australia.

Those non members do have the option to join, even if only for the short term.
That or thay can just continue to winge in the crew room about the way the company is not what it was, for the older hands, or for those who signed the newer contract on how much better their mates are being treated else where.
The company has lost out in terms and conditions and very much in life style since I joined. This we own you 27/7 outside your rostered days off and will try to mess you around as much as possible with roster changes, extended duties, a shortage of staff in most departments, meaning that all life away from Monarch becomes near impossible to organise. Or your just to knackered to do anything spending your time of trying to recover before it all starts again.
I personnally don't want to go down the strike route, but senior management(:mad: ) with thier childish and unproffesional attitudes are driving everyone in that direction.
Lets get back to where we look forward to going into work to get the aircraft with the fare paying pax to and from varied destinations, on time, safely and with a smile. Thats all they ask for.
Leadership and attitude start from the top and works its way down.

If there are any pilots that work during a strike, they'll be as popular as a fart in a space suit! Joining BALPA is a no-brainer.

Hapzim

Again...I agree with your comments....but you need to get a better spell checker mate !!;)

For those who are NOT in BALPA at the moment, I would certainly encourage you to join PDQ (even if for a short time), as our present head honch is trying to play hardball...(learnt from the Mick O'Learly school of management). It may have worked for him then, but I think he is in for a bit of a shock this time...!

The current "Top Floor" are seriously underestimating the ill-feeling and strong resolve of the pilots who are seriously pi$$ed off at the minute with how things are slowly turning to rat $h!te.

The worst thing is of course, one of the principle instigators of this is the present Ops director who was known to jump up and down vehemently when he was on the BALPA cc way back when, when things happened he didn't like, but now he sits in the other camp, and is all too happy to destroy the reputation and goodwill the pilots had with management and the company that has provided for him so well for so many years.

Sad days indeed...

:rolleyes:

Considering its somebody's job to track the hours , is that such an unreasonable request ?

teamilk&sugar mon amie

If I could spell, a lawyer I would be, if numbers were my strenght, an accountant should I be, but me I'm just lowly aircrew, not respected by my management ;)

I'm in agreement that you guys should all go on strike. The T&C's at Monarch are nothing short of pathetic now. However the company will never be like " the good old days", even if you get success with a strike. Monarch is essentially a low cost operator now and I for one don't think I could have taken another 30 years of that kind of flying! (Man 320 to Malaga ump teen times a day:eek: ). So I believe the best solution for many of you guys especially if you are relatively young, is to vote with your feet and leave. It's simple, there are better jobs to be had out there and these companies are recruiting. Why wait until this recruitment bubble ends?

I know a great number of pilots who are quite happy to winge and moan about their current company but are too bone idle to apply for another job. Quite simply too lazy to put a few weeks work in, to pass selection into one of the majors. I for one thought that 2 weeks effort to get an extra £1500/mth take home and 13-15 days off was well worth the effort. Obviously some people have a different view!:confused:

I have always spoken highly of Monarch and enjoyed my time there, but have not regretted leaving for one minute. Even though it cost me £10,500 to leave in bond fees!

Best of luck to all of you if it comes down to a strike. One more thing, those that are not in BALPA should join post haste. It's not on to let your colleagues do all the fighting when everyone will benefit from any improvement in T&C's that BALPA may secure. :=

Cheers TEN DOLLAR.

Quote:
"Best of luck to all of you if it comes down to a strike. One more thing, those that are not in BALPA should join post haste. It's not on to let your colleagues do all the fighting when everyone will benefit from any improvement in T&C's that BALPA may secure. "

What if one is of the somewhat out of fashion point of view that both parties have signed a contract and that it should be honoured by both parties?

Lets leave aside a minute all the reasons given for the unrest etc and have a look at what I consider to be a basic principle of decent personal conduct.

I have, in the last 18 months, signed a contract of employment that is being honoured by my employer. I think, regardless of the provocation, I would be letting myself down if I were to break my contract.

Personally, I just fundamentally disagree with the principle. I suppose it's just not right.

Anyway, I imagine I'm in for a blasting as I realise this is not the way of the world today so my hard hat is deployed.....enjoy.:hmm:

185,

How can I put this mildly - TJ et al offer you a pay deal of RPI minus 50%, are you going to just sit back and work to that?

I think you need a slight reality check.

Splat