Thats great Flygirl except you posted in a thread about Monarchs T&Cs....

About Monarch
 

Hi, to come back to the topic of Monarch and Easy, from an experienced F/O's point of view, it seems Monarch is offering better T+Cs than Easy with roughly 42000 GBP and nothing to pay towards the type rating(provided you stay 3 years minimum) whilst Easy is offering about 30000 GBP excluding moneys paid towards the bond. I am an outsider so I gathered this information from the internet. Could someone in the know confirm these T+Cs?

Sorry about that. I am new to PPRuNe. Struggling to make my post work.

FBOZH, I stand to be corrected but looking at easyjet's website it looks as if an experienced but non type rated FO starts on £39,740 plus £14.18/sector. There is no sector pay at Monarch that makes quite a difference.

http://www.easyjet.com/EN/Jobs/Pilot...dbenefits.html

I believe FBOZH is talking about TRSS, which is a totally different animal.
DE SFO with EZY pays pays 44k plus sector pay, which is quite significantly better than MON.

DE SFO with easy gets £44,740 plus sector pay (although it's 90% of this or £40,266 for the first 6 months). It's £39,740 if you are on the TRSS (Type Rating Sponsorship Scheme) as you are paying back £5,000 a year for 5 years - this is for licence holders without medium/heavy multi-crew commercial jet experience.

you are right, I was talking about TRSS. I just checked the website and there is a significant difference at Easy between F/Os and senior F/Os. Could somenone tell me the difference? If I join with a Full ATPL and 2600TT, will that make me senior? Thanks

The website seems to imply that a First Officer has a frozen ATPL as it's in brackets after the rank in the table. So I assume once it is unfrozen you are then a "Senior First Officer". So you would go in as an SFO I think.

It depends on jet hours too. They have only recently recognised the BAE 146 to be good/big enough for direct entry, so anything that or bigger should get you straigfht in on SFO.

How did this turn into a thread about EZ's requirements? :confused: :} ;)

sorry!:ooh: :E ;)

Back to Monarch

Management are now building in to their recruitment plans an additional number of places to cover the attrition rate, those leaving to find better T & C esp pension. The financial package now no longer makes up for the unstable rosters and poor quality of lifestyle.

If the Flybe new package is what i have heard we will find that source of pilots dwindiling.

Maybe time for Mr B to start to hear the real story.

Thats ok you will be able to swell Monarch's ranks with BACon drivers

A little bird tells me that a "things PB should know" website is presently under construction...
It has to be said that at the recent pilot meetings it was apparent that RS has kept PB in the dark about a number of major issues - perhaps RS has been sailing a little too close to the wind??

Not that I'm one for conspiracy theories, but it was strange how some of our most senior captains (and some of RS's biggest fans) who were origionally rostered for the meeting - were plot changed to fly at the last minute... how very convenient :rolleyes:
SB

Mayby it should be called "RS tells fibs when his lips move" or....

"dayoff payments cause roster disruption"

"18-30 rest periods"

"why hotac when you can stay in a hostel?"

Perhaps there'll be a bit more shouting from PB in RS's direction? I smell work to rule on the way:E :8 :ok:

Strange scarebus, because there is a private forum right here on PPRuNe which I am reliably informed is "well read" and it is anonymous. Both of the gentlemen you allude to, hold occaisional meetings at all of the main bases where you would be able to put your complaint or concern. I am reasonably certain that if I placed a telephone call to their office now, I would either be put directly in contact or called back as soon as possible.

As for the recent meetings. Given there were a seemingly large number of people rostered to attend, and that anyone on a day off or otherwise not flying were generally invited to attend, it is hard to imagine that a coherent plan to prevent the most likely vociferous attendees was orchestrated. As amusing as the concept is, it does stretch the outer limits of credulity.

I am in the hold pool for Monarch, just wondering if anyone has received start dates for the Airbus out of Birmingham yet?

For Schedules:
Barcelona
Malaga
Alicante
Almeria
Palma
Tenerife South
Ibiza
Jerez
Faro
Menorca
Lanzarote

Plz correct or add more - Hell the easiest way is to go on the website put departure airport as MAN and see what all the destinations are!

The majority of the charter work is on the the boeings and A300 unfortunately, It happens but not that often on the baby bus.

and the night CFU's followed by night RHO to finish a run of 5... how I am going to miss all this:}!!

Yes you do get a few charters in the summer as I've mentioned. In the winter, there's the odd ski flight to Bulgaria or Austria.

Would do but not much use as on the 20th of the month we get them and the only thing that is stable are the allocated days off. The rest, the company think they own you 24/6 and roster disruption rules. Most days/nights are 2 sectors (2:30 - 5:00 hr sectors) with quite a few taxi rides after a duty to get you back to base.

Be prepared to bet very flexible with life from work.

Possibly, although an early Preveza followed by an early TFS followed night Dalaman with a 2350 report..off duty at 1030 the next day is a killer, yet is typical of certain roster times.

cheers!

PM sent

I have searched around and there doesn't appear to be a definitive answer regatding the typical roster for scheduled Monarch flight crew, particularily on the A320.

Would anybody be able to advise?

Many thanks,

WTFH

WTtH

That may well be due to the fact that rosters in Monarch are quite simply not worth the paper they're written on.The only thing that's recognised is your day off but forget the rest ladies and gents.

Monarchs archilles heel is it's lack of roster stability and was the fundamental reason for my resignation almost 4 years ago. Things haven't changed since then and i'd srongly advise anyone who values their social and family life to think very long and hard before applying. I'd been there over 9 years and as a Captain with an excellent final salary, it was undoubtedly a tough decision but one which I don't regret for one minute. I miss some of the flying and certainly most of my colleagues ( on both sides of the door!), but not for one minute do I miss the severe dicking I got from roster changes. 27 plot changes in one month was my record. 3 in one month was the best achieved and that was with 2 weeks leave! Some people can live with it but for others like me it simply wears you down.

The Company were never prepared to change and BALPA, or should I say the Company Council, weren't prepared to fight it either. When Britannia( Thomsonfly) incorporated it 6-7 years ago, it was well received by pilots AND crew control. Their CC fought for it and it grieved me greatly that ours didn't and haven't since. The number of 'shots across their bows' that were threatened against the Company from the CC was laughable. I always believed there were some on that Council who were there ,not for us, but to further themselves and so true it came to be!

As a comparison, in the almost 4 years i've been with my new Company, i've had a total of 4 changes to my roster. 2 actual changes, 1 cancellation due training and 1 voluntary change that I requested through a trip swop.
Quality of life is something some people might describe as priceless. I'm one of them. YOU'VE BEEN WARNED!

Regards

BYMONEK

I'm certainly not saying Monarch rostering is great...its not, but I only had 2 plot changes in Jan, one swapping a stby for a flight and one changing flight destinations. 1xstby becoming a flight so far this month.

As far as BALPA goes I believe that the current CC have done a pretty good job in testing conditions...we wait for the outcome of this years pay negotiations before making a final judgement.

In answer to your question Foxy there is a wide variation in the 'standard' minibus roster depending on basing and season. What base do you have in mind?

WTFH

I'm afraid what BYMONEK says is still true to this day. Most months I have roster changes in double figures, even in Winter when things are much quieter. It really does play havoc with arrangements particularly if you have kids and a wife / husband that also works.

As a general guide to your question though as an A320 F/O at LGW expect 15 to 20 flying days per month from May through to October. More than likely these will be a mix of early mornings, afternoons and nights. Often in Summer you may get two mornings, two afternoons and two nights, then 2 days off. That really is a killer fatigue-wise.

From November to April expect 9 or less flying days per month. All the remainder will be standbys or training days. You will not be rostered any extra days off even though there is no need to have so many people on standby. You will only get the minimum 8 days off in 28. Don't know what could expect at MAN, LTN or BHX, but I would guess busier all year round at MAN and similar to LGW at BHX and LTN.

People are currently leaving to BA and Virgin as one might expect, but also to easyJet and Aer Lingus and many have applied to Middle Eastern carriers, Cathay and Thomsonfly.

A new Easyjet F/O will take home £700/month more than a new Monarch F/O. Similar situation with capts.

Many thanks for the replies, certainly doesn't paint Monarch as the company of choice to be working for it is a shame really. When are you due to hear anything regarding a new pay deal - any ideas :confused:

Spottyemm...I am asking particularily in regards to the LTN base, as Spinx suggested I would imagine it is pretty similar to LGW.

My impression is one of polar extremes, whereby some people seem to really enjoy Monarch while others suffer from poor rostering, etc. So surely to remain (attain) the rank of a choice employer and one people actually want to stick with, Monarch are going to have to review their T's&C's fairly quickly, especially if what ZeBedie says is true regarding the salary differential between EZY and Monarch how would they expect to remain competitive :ugh:

I worked for Monarch for two years out of MAN on the 320/21 and left in November last year for Easyjet and I can honestly say it was the best decision I ever made. Apart from the great people I had the pleasure to work with there is not much else to miss. With easyjet I got my base of choice, more money and a very predictable roster. If I so desired I could work out my days off many months in advance - not something you could do with Monarch. Obviously you do many more short sectors with easy but that it about the only downside. Different companies do things different ways and nowhere is perfect but easy suits me down to the ground.

Best Regards,
Office Pest

Its probably been said before, but to reiterate, there is a real split between MAN 320/321 drivers and say LTN/LGW crew. Actually come to think of it, its not really a split rather more of a different perspective.

MAN 320/321 guys......900hrs per year mostly Spain, and too many back to back night Tenerife's

Everywhere else.....not as many hours, a bit more variety, and it appears, a little less roster disruption.

The pay claim is progressing, recently a survey has been carried out by an impartial agency to gauge the level and depth of frustration at the stagnating T & C's.
There seems to be an appetite to confront the current Ops director, and his "Zero Cost" policy, as well as the management hierarchy in general.
The demographics of the company are also changing, there are more junior pilot employees who have much more to gain, and a lot less to lose by taking direct industrial action, however there will be the usual cadre' of pilots who for their own reasons will never act industrially, but their numbers are reducing rapidly.
I'll predict that around 90% of BALPA members will vote for industrial action if the company doesn't stop taking the P$ss on T & C's

"recently a survey has been carried out by an impartial agency to gauge the level and depth of frustration at the stagnating T & C's."

Monarch Man - Was this survey just for BALPA members or could none members take part too?

Fuel, as far as I'm aware, and according to the nice American lady with whom I spoke too and gave my survey answers too, it was for MON Balpa members only.

Thanks MON Man.

Has all gone down the pan since the last Management change a few years ago, those of you thinking of joining - forget it -unless as is mostly the case now you have no hours and after a first job, then take the job, get the experience and leave, people are leaving and looking to leave in droves.

In the last couple of years experience levels in the company have become very low indeed for obvious reasons, terms and conditions are a joke and roster stability ??????? no..

Do yourself a favour.

Very Very well put.

RS, I trust you are reading this :ok:

33 changes in October is my record!

Wear the fox hat,have you been offered a job or are you just researching
the market?

Office Pest,
Any chance you could check your PM's, please? Thanks....

18 plot substantial changes in 1 day is my record :ugh: