It looks like there will be more interviews soon, since another batch of resignations have been handed in. No wonder the head shed has a revolving front door!

19 bods left since Jan! Bloody hell! Well im sure RS and the rest will certainly look at what the CC is asking for a little more closely..... :rolleyes:

Good luck to all of you going on to greener pastures :ok:

I hear 11 have resigned in the last fortnight... so I do the hope the message is getting through to the warerabbit.

The CC are now in a very strong position and let's hope they don't get fobbed off by the usual "zero cost" rubbish that we've heard in the past. The present training costs alone must be a stark reminder that you can't keep treating the crews in the manner that mangement have previously deemed appropriate... We have now fallen behind all others in terms of t&c's and the rostering department need a new computer system !! Steps need to be taken urgently to restore morale and to stop the flood of resignations- but that would take true leadership... bugger:ugh:

If T&C's don't improve, the simple answer is vote with your feet. I did and have not regretted it once. How can I regret getting £1200 more take home pay a month, a vastly better pension, 15 days off a month on average, 8 weeks holiday, Worldwide destinations - need I go on? However I have missed the Monarch girls;) Monarch is still a great airline, with great people but now I don't believe it is deserving of the good reputation it still has within the industry. It's incredible the number of Captains I fly with in my new company who say, " you worked for Monarch? I thought no one ever left Monarch?"

I would still recommend Monarch to anyone but only if they require heavy jet experience. Unfortunately Monarch will slowly become a training ground for the larger airlines, which is a shame. However you reap what you sow!:ok:

I must concurr with TENDOLLAR. I am in the same position having left Monarch pastures new last year, even with a Command looming. I also on average get between 13-15 days off a month. Duty free weeks, weeks of leave or just days off keep coming along.Even as a Senior F/O at Monarch I have received £1200+ payrise per month with stable rostering,which has enabled me to realise a life outside of the 'job', even as a junior F/O!!
I think the people at Monarch make the company what it is, they truly are a very professional and friendly group but I think that's only because the T&C's are so bad now it has brought the workforce together more so than in the past when I joined Monarch.
To reiterate what my colleague has suggested, look on Monarch as a training ground to get that valuable 'jet' experience before moving to another operator with better T&C's.

With the amount of people leaving at the moment, i'd say it won't be long before that good rep is completely flushed down the toilet...

I will agree with the comments of those who have made the move. I did it a year ago and will say this. My lifestyle has improved as rosters stability is now a reality. I work quite a few weekends but at Monarch this could happen if you got on a weekend 'Roll' as I called them. My pay stub averages 1000 pounds more a month and can be even much more with overtime. The holiday set-up at Big Airways is far superior as is the staff travel. The pension has been greatly improved as well. Monarch senior management’s attitude about pensions was 'That’s all you are going to get'. That was the fact that pushed me out. Monarch is a good employer and you could not meet a better bunch of people to work with. That being said there are much better contracts out there and obviously people are exercising their ability to make that choice to leave.

I've been talking to a great deal of FO's and almost without exception they are "looking around". For most of them the forthcoming pay deal is absolutely crucial as to where their futures lie.. and I trust mangement are aware of the feeling in the ranks.

Should we fail to get a proper deal this time, the small flow of resignations will turn into a flood... Any plans the Company have of expansion would have to be reassessed and the even the present summer schedule could become unworkable. We are all aware that the grass is greener and we don't have to put up with the present t&c's any longer - Management seem all to happy to "feather their own nests" whilst the reputation of the Company falters...
Isn't it about time that some of the more senior captains now stood up and said "enough is enough - back to your day job Scotty"....

;)

Sadly Scarebus, quite a large portion of the senior Captains you speak about, and I'm talking those who are approaching double digit seniority, don't give 2 sh%ts about the present situation, they represent the "I'm alright Jack" attitude that is borne out by their inaction.

The trouble is that there are two different companies within one at the moment, and I don't mean scheduled vs charter either.
The senior guys (B767/A330) are on very good contracts i.e. over 90K basic, 450-500hrs a year, plus 10-15k on voyage etc etc etc

The rest of us, well 750-900hrs per year, crappy DC pension, little or no voyage, and a Basic that has slipped markedly in comparison.
RS, MP, PB, and TJ are going to need to get very close to the asking level from the CC, they also need to invest in the future i.e. rostering, an Ops department that can make decisions, and accept that MON is no longer the desirable place to work it once was.

Don't expect much help from the longterm employed, many of them couldn't care less about our situation, they are more interested in protecting their FS pensions, which is ironic and sad really, given that they themselves have benefited from the hard work previous long servers put in.

I personally know of 7 f/O's who are sitting on yes letters to various carriers who haven't tended resignations yet:8

I would echo the comments about FOs saying that they are waiting for the outcome of the pay deal.

Bad pay deal = "Thanks for the type rating I'm off!"

Monarch Man,

7 more hey?? HAHA boy I wonder if RS has opened his eyes to the mess he has created! Zero Cost in the short term = MEGA COSTS in the long term! :ugh:

Where are they off too? The usual suspects ie) BA, Virgin, Aer Lingus, EZ?

How many ppl have left from the 330? Do they have enough bods left to cover the summer flying?

MM & S321,

With the greatest of respect guys, IMHO the most important factor in improving and then maintaining our T&C's is unity. As soon as we start antagonising each other on here and then dividing into separate factions we've had it. The current Ops Dir as we all know is both cunning and conniving and he would read these posts with glee.

We've got the ever increasing turnover of Pilots, we've got the strong pay claim and we've got the strength of feeling within the ranks, and if the ware rabbit :8 doesn't deliver, we will all have the vote for industrial action!

I couldn't agree more Defined, it is also worth making the point IMHO that there are those who are happy to benefit without offering anything in return.
The senior people I refer too are both well known, and well known for their views, they are also unlikely to be influenced by RS or his tactics simply because their only interest is number 1.

Please don't tar all senior captains with the same brush. Yes there are some wide-body, over 55 age pilots, who have an easy life and are happy with the status quo. Then there are the rest of us. We didn't want the new inferior terms and conditions, but with a weak CC at the time, what could we do? You can't strike without union backing.

We warned you guys who've joined on the new contracts, via pprune, but join you did. We told you it was a bum deal, but some people ignored the advice, joined anyway and then winged that they were getting less than the people on the old contract, as if it was our fault. It is not our fault.

However we arrived here, we have to deal with the situation we're in. If we turn our anger against each other, then management have total victory on a plate.

My position is that I will willingly go on strike for the DC pension or the removal of "the bar". But please, stop moaning about the deal YOU SIGNED UP FOR. The more senior pilots have done nothing to harm your lot. In fact we were fighting for you before you joined. And we want to help you now.

Unwiseowl, with the greatest amount of respect, your words are heartening to hear:ok:
Having said that, those who joined after 2004 (of which I am not one) are merely wishing to improve their deal, they are perfectly entitled to express an opinion based on the industry as a whole, and how the current T & C's offered at MON have slipped in comparison:=
As regards to offering warnings, again that is all well and good for someone in a secure and reasonably well paid position, it is very different however for someone from a less secure perspective.
Whatever the rights and wrongs, the post 2004 guys/girls joined on a contract that was until about 18 months ago, quite competitve, it is clear now that it is not.
Most of the newish F/O's I speak too don't moan about the deal they signed up for:= , they moan that the deal they signed up for hasn't improved significantly enough to cover the increased costs of living etc etc to make them wish to stay at MON rather than head off to other employers who offer a better standard of employment.
Like you unwise, I will happily remove my labour to improve these guys/girls lot.

Monarch Man, I don't disagree with any of that. And to be fair to the new contract pilots - at least they have some fire in their bellies and they're prepared for a fight. That's what we need!

DC, It is apparent that there is now huge underswell of unity at Monarch - and as you rightly point out I feel the ball is firmly in our court...I have to say almost all the captains - young and old - are greatly annoyed at the huge turnover of junior pilots and the erosion of a once excellent reputation. And for what?? A penny pinching myopic policy which has clearly back fired and potentially stands to cost the Company far more than it has ever saved...
Monarch Man, although I fully appreciate that there are some senior guys on much better deals, a lot of those guys are fully aware of the problems and are just as disillusioned with the way management have been "managing" - I don't begrudge them the lower hours, higher pay and final salary pension scheme - to be honest i'm just jealous!! What I do want is their support and acknowledgment that others have a rather bad end of a :mad: stick....

Me to Scarebus, me to:ok:

I guess I must have run into just about all of them in the last few weeks. Please don't think I'm tarring all with the same brush, as it is evident that some of the comments and views I have witnessed lately represent a small proportion of the senior pilot workforce.
Personally, I think RS is in for a rough time, I even suspect that his position my become untenable.

Well having worked for Monarch for two years out of MAN on the airbus fleet all I would add is that I left Monarch for easyjet last year and it was the best desicion I ever made. For any of the new joiners like myself I would whole-heartedly recommend it. You may do more sectors but everyting else more than makes up for it.

Office Pest.

I left 2.5 years ago, best move i made. I was there for 14 years, was an easy choice. With Bunny features at the helm, you will not get anywhere unless you all pull together.
Shame as the Spotty M has a great bunch of people upfront, shame its being destroyed by the toothy one.

Good luck....

EGGW

Interesting one TEN DOLLAR, because the current differance in Monarch CAPTAINS pay and F/O's pay is less than a £1200 / month.

The company have been penny pinching from the staff for a few years now, only to 'announce' they are buying $900,000,000 worth of 787's.

Make no mistake the staff are fed up.

I don't think rather childish personal insults to individuals really adds anything to the debate.

Make no mistake Monarch Man et al; there is a stronger sense of unity within all ranks of seniority within the company than I have EVER seen in years.

For all our sakes, I hope the management also know this and deliver the goods as it will truely get ugly....and most certainly VERY costly.

nilcostoptionmyass - you're quite right, it is an interesting point earning
£1200+ take home more per month. As you say, that is similar money to a junior Monarch Captain. That's a hell of a lot of money more as a year 1 F/O without the Captains responsibility. £1200 per month is my mortgage per month. The simple fact is, I would not be able to afford my house if I was still at Monarch.

When comparing airline salaries it is not sufficient to look at the basic wage alone. At the end of the day it's actually what goes into your account at the end of the month that counts. My company's basic is only a few grand more. However it's the flight pay that makes all the difference. Flight pay is what the Monarch CC need to be pushing for. £2.52/hour away from base or whatever it is now, is bugger all on short haul at Monarch. For me it didn't even cover my petrol to work!!!!! :=

Yeah, but if it makes you laugh :p

Anyhow, i wish you luck. What is Balpa membership up to these days??? 75%, or better?

EGGW

90% + I think

WOW, that is a BIG change!! Now you may well stand a good chance.

EGGW

The CC have the first of a series of meetings today:ok:

Should be verrrrrrrrrrrry interesting....there are more than a few fed up guys spoiling for a fight, and all to a man want to punish RS:E

So I hear MM! If TJ and PB have any sense they will have made sure that RS has been plot changed to a morning TFS!! Although the truth is he's probably in Calgary:}

Let's hope that today management take this opportunity to send a positive message to the crews... and well done to the CC for finally getting their act together!

Probably quite predictably, TJ has called the pilots new pay-claim "unsustainable" and closed the pay meeting inside 5 minutes.

Accordingly he then offered to conduct a "private" meeting with the CC Chairman and the Chief BALPA negotiator, which were refused.

Let the games begin:E

TJ, I trust you can read, we will win sonny jim we will win.

I was really p****d off with TJ's response. I hope if the next meeting is not conducted with more decorum in a transparent manner that the CC begin proceedings for a strike ballot.

Just in time for the beginning of the Summer season - NICE!!:E
If TJ thinks we haven't got it in us to strike he is seriously misjudging the mood this year.

Here, here.

Bring it on!!!

Many years ago I was sent by Balpa head office(I don't know why),a copy of a leaflet entitled "A participants Guide to Industrial Action".Perhaps an updated copy could be circulated or posted because I think we are going to need it!!

TJ's response was insulting to say the least. :mad:

I'll happily strike if it comes to that without a second thought!

I'm sure the CC wont let this one drag out to October. If somthing substantial is not offered by the end of June we strike in July! Or was the busiest week in August according to the summer schedule.....:E

Better yet if he starts playing stupid games i think very slow taxiing is in order with fuel loads ooohhh a couple of tonnes in excess over plog, on CAVOK days, 3 tonnes ;) ......

Looking forward to the 10th.

TJ has got it wrong! I'm champing at the bit to go on strike after that response.

Strike!
 

I pulled an advert out of an old Flight Intl for Flybe saying 'Come join us you don't have to sacrifice your lifestyle...etc, salaries: TRE/TRI up to £90K, Captains up to £80K & F/Os up to £50K'. Now that is "up to" and the reality could be different for new joiners but none the less bloody good salaries for a regional airline. Does this not make the sub £70K salary for a new Monarch Captain look pathetic?
I seem to remember the days of bench marking salaries / T&Cs against the likes of Britannia and how disgusted everyone was when it looked like management were using easyjet as the bench mark. Well easyjet have exceeded us in nearly every respect, so are we now aligning our selves with the turboprop operators? It certainly looks that way.
Think I will pin that advert up in the crew room just the see the effect it has.
Bring on the strike!

Flybe advert
 

Don't be fooled by the Flybe add. They are trying to plug their own holes in terms of pilot retention. That add is misleading, as I can assure you that a jet captain will be on under £60k.

As a jet F/O with them with 3 years servce I was on about £36k

Arrestahook - just to echo A320's comment, you will join Flybe on the DHC8-400 on £50k per annum. There are no Direct Entry jet Commands.

Sorry.

Oh don't get me wrong I don't think I am fooled by the Flybe advert, but it does highlight the improvements that they have had to make to retain and attract new pilots after their mass exodus. Will the same happen in Monarch??

BALPA Membership is very strong but everyone that joins or re-joins in the current climate helps to send a clear message to management. :D