Monarch T & C's
 

Hey all,

Have an interview with Monarch coming up and was hoping that someone was able to tell be a little about what it's like working for the airline, eg. rostering, T & C's etc. What would a typical month involve in terms of flights etc?

Doesn't seem to be a huge amount on the site about the airline which is usually a good thing!!??

Thanks V much in advance.

Hi TD,

Good luck with your interview. There is a lot of information on This website which might help.

There are main bases at Luton, Gatwick, Manchester and Birmingham.

Recruitment is initially on to the A320/1, A300 and B757. There are opportunities later for mixed fleet flying on the 757/767 and A320/1/330. Obviously such opportunities depend on many factors but have been occurring within a year or two for some recent joiners.

It is difficult to come up with a typical roster as it varies from fleet to fleet and base to base. You can however expect to be busy particularly on the Airbus fly by wire fleet. The flying is likely to be a mix of schedule service flights to Spain and Portugal and the Canaries, and Inclusive tour flying to all the usual med' destinations. With regards to the latter Summer is obviously busier than winter and rosters of up to 90 hours in 28 days are not unusual at some bases and on certain fleets. Winter tends to be quieter however ad hoc and ski flights supplement the winter sun flying and it can be busier than you might expect.

The company has 6 firm orders in for Boeing 787's with deliveries starting in 2010. Additional options may increase this order eventually to 10 units in the foreseeable future.

A good company with a lot of great people to work with. Terms and conditions were revamped for new joiners a couple of years ago to bring the renumeration into line with market competitors. Obviously from a new employees perspective not for the better, however you read the contract on offer and decide for yourself I guess. Some of the conditions on offer make it easier for a pilot to move on if they feel that is beneficial for them, and this may become something the company has to address in the near future. The old "anchors" of seniority and final salary pension schemes are not ties for new joiners.
Despite this and contrary to what some might tell you, there is not an exodus of previous new joiners and many people make a good career in the company.
It is hard work at times, it can be very frustrating, but that is true of most companies in the same markets and it still remains a good place to work for most people.

If you want any more information just ask either here where you will get more varied replies or by PM ( though the replies may take longer).

I would agree with most of what Bealzebub says regarding it being generally a good company to work for and good people. However T's and C's for new joiners fall behind comparable companies - Thomsonfly, First Choice, Thomas Cook etc. And IMHO there is considerable movement in terms of relatively new people leaving.

The pension now is very poor. You contribute 8% to generate a company maximum contribution of 8% and it is a direct contribution scheme. Compare with a final salary scheme available after 5 years at Thomsonfly or between 3.5 and 5% contribution at First Choice to generate a 15% Company contribution.

Also there is a salary cap for new joiners. It occurs after 10 years as an F/O at a level about £9000pa less than people on the old scheme. Hopefully you won't spend 10 years as an FO, but for Captains it also occurs at year 10 and knocks between £7000 and £8000pa off your final salary compared with the old scheme.

As a company and job I would recommend it, but go in with your eyes open. Long term there is a salary cap and poor pension to consider. If you are relatively young it is a great place to get a good type and move on after 3 years experience. By then things may have changed for the better or you might be content with your lot.

Check your PM's for a bit more....

Bealzebub, Sphinx

Thanks v much for your replies!! Great to get a bit of gen from you guys. Will have a look at the link Bealzebub and come back once I am suitably confused!!

Thanks again,

TD

Apparantly a management pilot has stated that they want to benchmark our terms and conditions with Jet2 :eek:

As per usual RS wants the zero cost option, first we were benchmarked with T/Fly, then Easy, then Excell, and finally Jet 2, I don't personally know why he doesn't just go the whole hog and benchmark us against Air Kurdistan, but then that would cost him his bonus...wouldnt it:hmm:

Aye, things are not how they were in my day, lad!!

Sadly, for the last 6 - 8 years it has been a gradual but accelerating erosion of terms and conditions. Gone is............................... everything, the only insurance the company has against you wanting to leave in 2 years time is that you'll be on your knees and too tired to apply elsewhere, coz I guarantee you'll want to. This will be in no small way attributed to the constant 18hr rest periods, roster patterns going from earlys to lates to nights.Ask the CAA.

Human resources, are a couple of dirty words in head office, where the attitude of if its legal........then F'off and do it. There are still some dinosaurs running things who have been there since the company was in short trousers, based in portakabin with a fleet a third of the size it is now and at the risk of seeming harsh they can no longer cope. My sympathy extended for as long as it took to effect my lifestyle.

There are some great people on the flying side, but the union is paralysed from an impressive bit of divide and conquer imposed by the management. With so many different fleets, payscales etc progress will always be limited. If things are bad now its unlikely they are going to improve again until there is a world pilot shortage(not on the horizon!), and they finally the company relents to pay as much as it takes to stem the flow of exhausted, demoralised pilots.

If you are on the bottom of the ladder looking to start I have every sympathy in your need for a first break. My only warning is don't be tempted by any previous reputation the company has. The original attractions Monarch held as an employer are evaporating and fast. If you have choices consider them carefully.

Please all, this should not be interpreted by anyone still there as me gloating and an outburst self congratulatory dirge. I made my choice to leave for many reasons and only on my day of retirement will I be able to decide whether they were good or bad choices.

Touchin Down,

A fellow ex-military flyer who joined Monarch just 18 months ago has recently resigned despite being told that he is being considered for Command. That should speak volumes!!!

Whilst Bealzebub is quite correct to state that there is not an exodus, it would be fair to say that pilot turnover is far greater than it has ever been before. People are leaving and many more are considering thier options very carefully.

As QAR ASR has already stated, don't be suckered in by the company's previous reputation as an excelent employer. Sadly, it is a completely different beast these days.

Good luck with the interview, it tends to be a rather relaxed affair usually nothing more than a friendly chat with a couple of management pilots at head office in Luton.

Monarch
 

Cheers guys, all food for thought. Sounds as though you are working pretty hard. Guess I'll see what happens in a couple of weeks. May not even come to having to make the decision! Really appreciate the insider views, certainly a few things there I hadn't really thought about too much.

TD

With that attitude Touchin down you'll go a long way:ok:

The interview is a relaxed affair, essentially a chat between yourself and a couple of management pilots. They are there to get a flavour of you, and you to get a flavour of the company.
On the negative side there are some quite contentious issues that are coming to a head at the moment, as well as some within the management structure that are stuck in a bit of a timewarp.
On the positive side, the company is profitable, scheduled pax numbers are up 20% year on year, and the prospect of the 787 looms large.
The company is full of some absolutely fantastic people, excellent trainers (who as a group view checking as a training rather than chopping exercise), and at the current rate of expansion you can reasonbly expect a command assessment within 3 years if you join with a reasonable experience level(it has been up to 7 years)
All in all I've decided to stick around for a bit, I've even turned down BA in the process.
If we (pilots and the CC) get on top of a 3 or 4 serious issues, the place will regain a fair bit of the shine it has lost recently.:ok:

Cheers MM,

Always try to go in to things with an open mind but can be a bit hard when you know so little about working in the industry! Again, all good info you've passed on. Apart from the people who work with Monarch, which it appears are all pretty chilled out, there must be some other positives??? Or not? lol.

Touchin' Down

Well yes there are other good things, but it depends on your point of view. For instance I enjoy the fact that I get a mix of charter, scheduled, and longhaul flying. I dont exclusively do one or the other, and that suits me fine because I prefer to be home most nights:ok:
If you join on the FBW fleet 320/321, you will get to know the Spanish Costa's and the Canary Islands very well, then when you get a chance on the 330 you can go to Sanford, Calgary, Male, Goa, and a few more places besides, so once you get some seniority (18 months worth or so) the variety of flying is quite good:ok:

Again I hope this helps

QAR
18 hr rest periods, earlys to lates to nights is a by product of one thing called CAP371, particularly said rule on max 3 earlies/nights.
We all hope that Sub Part Q will eventually reach these shores and you will see much more sensible schedules. For example why not offer 4 consecutive earlies or nights instead to solve your complaint. Which is better?. Given that is medical evidence to support 5 earlies (EZY) and 4 nights (DHL) there should be no issue
:\

The 787 will replace the A300/767. The A300/767 pilots will probably be tranferred to the 787,

A pilot joining on the A320 may see long-haul for a while, but the A330 is due to be retired in 2013, so expect a lifetime of Spain and back, with no prospect of 787.

Mr A,

5 earlies is already possible in CAP 371 - its just you don't choose to use it because of the extra strings attached like not more than 9 hours duty and the extra time off needed - Brown Book 7.7.2.1 if you are interested. Sub part Q is unlikely to come our way as sensible countries have decided they don't want to be dragged down to the lowest common denominator and they realise that when people are tired at night in charge of machines people start dying (ask Gary Hart).

Yes easy do it - that's why their management have just agreed to go to 5 on 4 off 5 on 4 off because all their pilots are so knackered despite all their days off - nothing to do with the fact that their days off are midnight to 6 am rather than our 9 pm to 9 am of course.

Monarch is a good stepping stone. You will get good training and fly with nice people.

I am looking to leave (Capt A320). The current management do not give a sh1t about its pilots and life is only getting worse. The union is well represented but unfortunately there are two different lifestyles within the company; A300/B757/A330 pilots are generally happy and do not want to rock the boat, A320 pilots are miserable - so any decision to stand up to the company is based on your fleet and to a certain extent, base. I sincerely do not know whether those in a better position are prepared to stand up for those of us who are not. I expect time will tell.

My advice is that we are a better bet than some (flybe, XL, ryanair etc) but a lot worse than others (BA, Virgin, Brits, First Choice, TFly, Easy etc).

I have to agree with all that Whoops says. Like Whoops I am an A320 captain, and like him I am looking to jump ship in the not too distant future!

There is no career progression in Monarch and if you are unfortunate enough to be offered the A320, you will be stuck on that for ever! (Yes there is the carrot of long haul on the A330, however you possibly won't be on it very long before promotion and then it's back to the A320 / A321 only and 900 hours a year of Alicante!)
:ugh:

The subject of crewing the B787 has not yet been established. Historically , Monarch has used its most experienced Capts to crew new ,longhaul a/c, and the Ops director has publicly stated, 3-4 years ago ref A330 crewing, that he sees wide body command as 'career' progression for his Capts. Of course there is nothing in writing ref any career path in Monarch, so in reality none exists, but it will be a contentious decision whichever way its decided.

The Ops director has stated a lot of things lately....none of which amounts to a hill of beans, as he loves to say one thing and then do another.
Personally I've stopped taking notice of anything he says, afterall he doesn't take one bloody bit of notice of what we say:hmm:

From his book of quotes and the only entry, "I'll only consider it if its a nil cost option"

As a pax, I gotta tell you they are head and shoulders above most of the competition!

Yes the service is quite good, but bear in mind the low cost arm of Monarch isn't making much money (compared to the competion - our CEO PB has told us in a meeting). They make the big bucks in the charter business, but if it wasn't for in flight sales, Monarch Scheduled would be losing money (so I've been told).

So why the headlong rush to expand the loco division?

In flight sales forming a large part of loco profits is not new or unusual. Most loco’s rely on this and ancillary web based profit streams. M'OL's stated aim is to provide completely free flights and derive all his profit from ancillaries.

No need to panic..........yet :)

Outcome
 

Thanks all for your input/advise/words of wisdom etc etc! All helped out considerably. Have been offered a position on the 75 fleet from Gatwick. Have accepted the offer! Again, thanks and look forward to joining you.

Regards,

TD

Welcome aboard.....see you in concorde house:ok: (4th floor;) )

Cheers MM -Look forward to it!

TD - Welcome aboad indeed!
T&c's really are improving for the better ;) ! Sometimes I just can't believe my luck. It's a shame you didn't get offered the 320 out of Gatwick as I hear the Company now ferry flight crew to Manchester using a helicopter rather than a taxi, and as RS likes to ensure we are a "no cost" operation he has also taken to using empty 320's to fly cabin crew from GAT to BHX - what a great chap he is - Morale has taken a huge leap forward and we now all sing his praises! How foolish we all were to think of wasting money on trying to crew bases properly and have adequate standby cover (not to mention the huge expense of a proper computer rostering system) when you can instead use helicopters!! Now we see why he is the OPs director on a huge bonus and we are mere line pilots...:ok: I'm sure PB is also as happy with RS as we are...

SB

Even better heard from a man in the know that theres 40 training slots for Jan and the hold pools empty! Cant find enough ppl to fill the slots. Especially now as most companies req a 3 month notice.....Says a helluva lot if you ask me. T&Cs need some serious improvin! Listening RS? :mad:

I am in the shallow pool. At least thats what the letter said. Maybe they are just hedging their bets, and I didn't have as good as an interview as I thought.

I was told during the interview that the Jan slots were filled and any offer would be for the Feb course. Sill waiting though :confused:

The company want to be able to move all joiners on promotion whereas existing F/Os can stay at their base for good by the way.

Let myself down at the interview and didn't get through.(Gutted) what's the minimum time I can re-apply?

Regards P.

RS out of office reply.

Sorry I'm out of the office between OCT 06 and APR 07, packing my bags and shuttling between UK and Calgary. I'll call you when I get back. Have a nice winter.

I may be mistaken, and it might be the Feb course thats fallen short of candidates.

The good news is if you were half decent in the interview a call shouldnt be too far away.

Good luck :ok: The T&Cs are pretty crap compared to others but the ppl you'll work with are a great bunch.

ATIS - how right you are..........

I am in the pool but haven't heard anything yet, a call would make a nice early Christmas present.

Was told last week that I'm on a course in Feb on the A300!!!
I thought this was fairly unusual, but an email from SK confirmed it. Anyone else on a similar, yet confusing, offer?

Where do the A300s fly? Are they LGW based? Congrats.

Oh dearie me..as anyone in Monarch will tell you, the A300's don't fly anywhere..they simply roll them out of the hangar, onto a stand and then...

back to the hangar...:O

Monarch is THE place for 18-30 rest periods. Crewing love 'em! And after many complaints via CHIRP, the CAA have given their blessing to these fatiguing rosters:ugh:

ATIS and Scarebus -legendary! I hope someone points RS in the direction of this thread so he can see how we feel outside of a pilot meeting. I had the misfortune of going permanent on 1st Nov 2004 with all the crap T&Cs that go with it and frankly there is no incentive for me to stay. As soon as I swap seats from the 330 to LHS 320 my quality of life is going to take a nose dive for the forseeable future. Whats the point? Get rid of the salary cap, bring back our lost T&Cs, spend some money on a rostering system that doesn't involve a tablet and scribe and I would stay.
Just out of ineterest you Captains that are thinking of jumping ship, where are you looking at? Presumably you have to be v unhappy to take a pay cut and demotion to FO just to get away? RS listening?????????