Hard to believe pilots still hand over 40k euro for this gig. The "P2L (pay to leave)" description is appropriate. Any airline participating in such a scheme is making a clear statement - and that statement is:- We have a history of poor labor relations, and have no confidence in our ability to retain you for a 3-year term without subjecting you to a severe financial penalty - (did someone say added stress and anxiety). However....

"a new contract with improved conditions by the end of June"

Crew are presently employed via a double circumvention of employment laws through an agency's broom cupboard affiliate. Any new arrangement may simply remove the broom cupboard element. The circumvention of employment laws will remain, as evidenced by the selective termination of four cabin crew by Norwegian, via instructions to their employer, OSM. Link:-

Flyvertinne slår tilbake mot Norwegian - avviser påstander om illojalitet - nyheter - Dagbladet.no

Use Google Translate and read all the associated links in the article. Once again, it is interesting to note that the biggest critic of Norwegian's treatment of staff, is the Norway media.

Hopefully, any new contract will create a positive, cooperative and energetic work environment, making the overall flying experience extremely pleasant for both customers and crew.

Direct Bondi; I take it you didn't apply? Your posts are a little on the negative side. I'm curious where you get the energy and time from, writing on this thread so much and clearly doesn't want to join? ;)

Well, I am happy in the company. Far from all pilots are happy, but I would say many are. I believe the conditions will improve. If they don't, I was wrong.

Regarding results from the online tests, my friend was told when asked, that there will be no feedback unless you failed. Moreover, the recruitment process will last for months including several months' of screening. Until all is finished he wouldn't get any feedback.

Not a personal attack, but I gather both Fade to Grey and Boeing operator were unemployed immidiatly prior to signing for NLH, @ BKK base.
They were desperate and perhaps are now suffering from the Stockholm syndrome ?

I can understand this, but its all boils down to making your own luck and ensuring you dont join a company that lays you off or goes bust after a few years. Something that maybe deja vu for the two above, if the euro crisis rumbles on for a couple of more years.

I still cannot believe that this company does not pay any medical insurance , loss of licence, bonus , 13 th month ,
Adequate sick leave , dental cover, hotel allowances?

Can anyone not having hard times seriously consider joining?
Unless you got lucky at the lotto. lol

Not often do I react to comments made on here but every now and then something gets stated that is just annoying.

Why write…………...

"but its all boils down to making your own luck and ensuring you dont join a company that lays you off or goes bust after a few years."

Bloody hell. Maybe today EJ, RYR, BA look nice and safe and are recruiting. But will they always be recruiting and when they are not where do you go ? I know your comment is aimed at NLH of which I know sod all except what is on this thread but pilot recruitment has not always been the happy playing field it is just at the moment. Look behind you highfive - there may be an XL pilot nearby.

Yeah, I was that desperate I was down to my last 30k....
Think about it.
What I was being offered was contracts in the wrong places, or God forbid the sand.

I was desperate not to go there.

Give it another two weeks and the terms and conditions have changed. Flight Ops has promised a new contract with improved conditions by the end of June.
Boring , err i mean Boeing , hows your wishful thinking coming along? I think with the deluge of experienced guys queing up, i do hope they renew your contract with an increase to compensate for 3 years of inflation and some? :D

How do you know that there is a deluge of experienced guys applying?

Does Rishworth keep you informed?

PM's . Info frm Middle east / Far east forum . Simple
And mates from KE / THY
Go figure . :D:D

Interview in July. Im easa 787 TRI.
Many rated Skippers from Qatar and even LOT

B777 guys will be interviewed much later, unless you have a Tre tri badge.

If you on the buss, pack yer bags and naff off . No a hope in hell you will get an interview lol .

Very odd post to say the least! anyway, Rishworth no nothing of moving to OSM, maybe LNIDA has some secret knowledge on this? in any event, i,m current 777 and they offered interview towards end of month, I can't make that and when they discovered I have 3 months notice they seemed less interested. Bond issue was not covered as it is common type, but they mentioned a " training bond" for conversion course? no idea what that means. Final decision is to stay where I am as the T+Cs not quite right at the moment taking into account LOL and Medical, Staff travel etc etc. Good wishes to the rest

A wise decision, Avenger.

Other than the many contractual shortcomings, the following is the reality

Monthly income €10000
equates to Yearly £87000
take home per month, after NI / std rate tax = £5300

My kids education is currently just under half that. And paid for.
Although obviously a basic state school would have to suffice if working for NLH, Plus a modest terrace house somewhere outta town.

My guess , many of the applicants are old n single, divorcees or young and dumb wannabes!

Hi Five and Avenger
 

You make a lot of sense. Congrats!
The T&Cs are just ridiculously outrageous.
It disonour our profession and the ones that gladly take it.

High five,
Your figures are wrong.
Your impression of who works here is wrong.
Your impression of my house is wrong.

You are wrong.

I guess you're one of the luckier ones.

http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearme...ng-winter.html

Hi Fade to Grey.
You seem to be 'in the know'. Any chance you could post the correct figures as im struggling to find a post with the actual £ take home pay for the LGW based guys.

Many thanks,
85

Given the apparent accuracy of the new thread confirmed by insiders why the hell would it actually matter what the correct figures are. Just cannot imagine why anyone gives them a second thought.

Jaxofmarlow

Luckily for you then you dont have to think on behalf of everyone else and wonder why they might be interested in a particular job. Clearly you are a skygod earning 20K£ a month for 500 hrs/yr. Lucky you but we are not all lucky enough to be in your privileged position :yuk:

Now if you could let the man provide us with the information we are looking for then that would be much appreciated.

Regards,

Fair enough.
Done my time in sandpits and certainly no skygod, what ever that is. Love your figures - would be happy with that.
If you are still prepared to consider this company after what they did last year and are apparently repeating this then OK. With the worst conditions in the UK I think it is a fair question to ask. And as long as they continue to have a queue at their door I guess they will only go one way.
Didn't think I was stopping anyone from answering your question.
You should check out the other current Norwegian thread. Plenty of others for you to admonish there.

Jax, and therein lies the heart of this issue, one mans rubbish is another's etc etc.
So long as people find this treatment acceptable, then there will be no shortage of takers.
Personally I just don't see it being a viable rate of pay for a new joiner with significant debt, I see it as a way for ex sandpit/Asia/and the occasional legacy driver to come home, or top off the pension.

You are probably right Monarch Man. It is very sad. It is unbelievable to me that a company has the balls to continue to advertise for 787 drivers at the same time as laying off dozens of the same already recruited. It has been "explained" that this is because they do not actually want them for this winter and all will be wonderful for all next summer. Oh Yeah.

Jax,
This isn't like a large legacy carrier. You don't just apply between fleets and transfer - your probably dealing with different agencies, AOCs etc.
Not to mention the bond and selection.

That short haul don't need 36 73 drivers is not attributable to the long haul operation

Monarch man- I totally agree that the conditions, from what I can read on this thread in particular, are not what you would expect for such a position living in the South of England. This is definitely not in question.
However for myself and most others I would imagine, paying the bills and feeding your family rates higher than fighting this ever declining industry on your own. If i had no job and needed to pay the bills then i wouldn't hesitate to take the job even for the conditions mentioned on this thread.
Everybody's situation is different and hence you can't know the reason why they took the job in the first place.

Cheers

Mach85
 

With the tax system in the UK asking about take home pay is likely to get the wrong answer for yourself ( it may be 100% correct for the person answering your question).

You need to know the gross pay and then do a bit of research on the HMR&C website ( income tax ) to enable an accurate answer for your personal tax position.

If you have other income you could slip into the 60% tax band.

Improvements?
 

Any truth to the rumours that long haul crew now have 10 days off instead of 8, and might get a 10-15% pay rise?

He's just a troll, ignore him.
amd I can tell you we have some great cabin crew trainers and generally a very good spirit de corps.

The pay rise and days off - this is correct. Those who have been here 3 years are now being shown the renewal conditions for when their contracts run out next year.

Thanks Fade to grey, so this is just for the guys who extend their contract? New joiners get same pay and still just 8 days off per month?

My thanks also but I would like to add a further question in addition to that from MyIDisthis.

When the Capts pay went up from roughly £88K to roughly £100K, did those already working get the increased pay or were they held to the conditions they had signed in their original contract?

Existing pilots were able to be based at lgw and be paid I pounds at a favourable exchange rate compared with the Actual situation for euros / pounds

The new contract is another slight rise, and will be based on a 65 block HR threshold, if you do more you get more. And days off paid at 1/10 per salary if you work them

Once again thanks for the info. So if a new improved contract comes in, will all pilots get it or will it only be for new joiners and existing pilots would have to wait for their contract renewal to get the new deal?

That, my friend, is a $64k question I can't answer.
Will they do three years on the old deal first ? I would doubt it.

It represents a monthly increase of £655 on basic.
£83 on per diems

It would seem.

I wonder what the current crop of 787 senior FOs think about Rishworth's unabated drive for DEC's?

I guess FOs sign a contract without any upgrade guarentee?

Will there be enough commands for all, or just the ageing & crusty brigade from EK and BA?

Why would a company bother upgrading when they can get DECs? given the low cost business model time to command cannot be guaranteed or predicted. A colleague that went in 2012 as a RCA is still an RCA and he had 6000 PIC 737NG. Originally BKK "based" but it would appear the waters got muddied with the transition to LGW base and the plentiful supply of silver surfers..sorry, experienced wide body Captains. Go in with your eyes open and the marriage may not end in divorce..

Just had the pleasure of sharing a ( hotel/airport shuttle ) bus with a NLH crew. I read STEXUP now censored comments and I did not like the racial innuendo..still I must admit that the impression was not good. I think Norwegian is trying to prove that any one can be a cabin crew..and the level seems indeed pretty low.

And exactly what has this to do with NLH pilot recruitment and conditions?

How about someone is interested in having an idea of what the environment might be like .. not really interested only on the monetary side of the story ...you know..

Most of the threads about NLH from people that actually work there are positive, they enjoy "their lot" the major gripe trolled by people NOT actually working there was the money not being compatible with legacy carriers and what may be considered the norm for wide body Captains. Not one single comment related the the cabin crew other than a moronic posting by some troll. The working environment as you put it seems good with the caveats mentioned by others about pay and rosters. This latest attempt to kindle negativity, as all the other ones have now died should also be shot down in flames, it is considered very bad form by " experienced " pilots to mention our colleagues in the cabin in negative terms " experienced" being the operative word..and as for " low levels" I would take a gamble the CC english is superior to many on this forum

Kirk..what the hell.. Have you now abandoned THY and taken the paladin role for NLH? Looks like you really have some vested interest in screwing the category. And does it comes to your mind that many might be not mother tongue Irish like you or simply using an error prone handheld device? By the way hoe many other languages can you speak? The impression I got was not positive. Depressed looking flight crew and an heterogeneously esthetically and acoustically unpleasant " lot". May be the trolls are the pumpers here. Remember..McDonalds is about to go bankrupt....��

When are the US D.O.T going to release the results of their investigation?

If it goes against NLH , what might be the consequences be for future expansion, or lack of?

Now i know why the are only using an agency .

cucuotto, OK back to the thread.. No I didn't leave THY but I was considering it as I only have 10 years left and was thinking of coming closer to extended family in UK. Personally, I would not want to join NLH for reasons which to some may seem pathetic, namely, Cheap hotels and minimum down route time, Loss of Licence and Medical become more important proportional to age. One could argue we are a spoilt protected species, but I think after 20 years you deserve a descent level of support and comfort from any employer. As you remarked, its not just about money..My point was that the guys on the line seem to be happy enough, the management is without conscience. Maybe in the future things will settle down and conditions will improve. Even Ryanair now recognise that stability of pilot employees is fundamental and they are thinking of running their own cadet schemes..i.e make then loyal and green from an early stage! Oh, yes, 3 languages, 4 if you count Gaelic..

So does anyone know how many RCAs have actually been upgraded to CA ? It would seem counterproductive in the long term for NLH to continue recruiting DECs, as then who would join as a RCA or FO knowing they will keep being bumped down by newcomers going straight to the LHS ?