Well fade to grey, you and your colleagues are gonna have to set aside any animosity or disappointment, because BALPA is the only show in town. We have a recognition agreement from OSM and are part of the wider Norwegian Pilot Group. Any alternative will just divide the Pilot workforce and water down an already delicate position we currently hold. Of course, we live in a democracy so feel free to suggest a viable alternative... Unless of course, it's the IPA :ugh:

737 jockey, whilst we want to be united, I was in BALPA before and they folded like wet cardboard when I needed them. Combined with them wanting 1% of my salary for the privilege of being useless, I think not.

Do you guys not realise they are really only interested in Big Airways.

I'd rather our own fledgling association took off.

Failing that it's TGWU for me, and Jeremy Corbyn will be my best mate.

737 Jockey quote:
"BALPA is the only show in town. We have a recognition agreement from OSM and are part of the wider Norwegian Pilot Group"

You are employed by OSM or Rishworth, however, Norwegian tests, recruits and rejects the applicants, provides uniform and equipment, assigns the base, determines the roster, days off, vacation and promotion, provides ongoing training, and can summarily terminate your contract. Effectively, Norwegian is your real employer.

What agreements do you have that are binding with Norwegian and CEO Bjorn Kjos ?

For Christs sake bondi,
Change the record or get a hobby FFS !

Hear they might open up for RCA again soon. We'll see.

Regarding the contract it still buffles me to understand what options that are better within Europe if you want to fly pax long haul (no cargo)? This is not a retorical question, I simply wonder. Let's say that I don't want to go to the sandpit or China, and don't want to wait 15 years for my captain position on long haul, where should I go? If you want to fly short haul there are other options. What are my options in western Europe?

Norwegian offers, via agency at the moment, London base, almost ok salary (in my perspective, but could definately be better), a working pattern that gives me about half the month off in average, a health insurance (although I also have the one in UK since the company pays social taxes there), etc. Pension will come with regulatory changes in UK from 2017. Ok aircraft to fly (although that is not too important for me), good destinations with short stops. Very nice people to work with.

Please enlighten me (without being rude).

Boeing, you are correct. For what you want , NLH is sufficient . NLH have offered a long haul job, with reduced perks and conditions, with the upside being you are DEC or DEFO straight on to long haul destinations, with good prospects.
As long as the company maintains a return on investment. If not , your pension pot you hope for may be significantly diminished.

Im curious why they are still recruiting? After so long, with so many qualified guys (especially from EK !)interviewed, or on the books, why all the re advertising?

How many guys actually have commenced training from this years recruitment drive?

Boeing, don't do it, a long haul command for £7500/month gross ?

Someones laughing all the way to the Kontanter

Really ? :ugh:

It's not £7500 gross for a Captain, numb nuts

Silly calling someone numb nuts for quoting a figure that the agency is advertising.

Here is a copy and paste from Rishworth:

Contract terms
Gross Salary
Commander: £7470 per month.
Per Diem
£830 per month.




If you have anything worthwhile to add regarding something we don't know, I'd love for you to enlighten us :)

Sorry,
I'm the numb nuts, I was thinking of the OSM deal.
I apologise

Although I am/was keen on returning to Europe after many years overseas, this money is just hard to justify when you realise what you get after tax. I guess if they can fill the seats though, it isn't going to change.

It is unlikely the terms and conditions will change anytime soon. Despite the various pilot representative groups uniting and "joining forces" as the Norwegian Pilot Group, their recognition was dismissed by Kjos and his cronies.

In a letter to the US DoT on 10 June this year, the Secretary of the European Transport Workers Federation, Francois Ballestero, stated:

"The Spain based pilots have organized themselves under SEPLA, the Spanish Pilots Union, and have made repeated attempts to engage Norwegian, or representatives of Norwegian, for the purpose of constructive talks. For the past six months these repeated attempts have been ignored by Norwegian.
As a reply to the efforts of the pilot representatives, Norwegian has stated that it does not have any pilots based in Spain, but a company called OSM does".

Norwegian's Communications Officer declared in an interview with Dagbladet newspaper on 7 August this year, "Norwegian has respect for unions, and has had good relationship with unions since its inception in 2002, and we intend to continue".

Two of the most respected and highest circulation newspapers in Norway, Aftenposten and DN, have now joined E24 News to report "Half of Norwegian's pilots want to quit" and "75% of the 800 pilots surveyed would not recommend Norwegian as an employer" - Links:

Aftenposten - Halvparten av Norwegian-pilotene ønsker å slutte - Aftenposten

DN - Halvparten av Norwegian-pilotene ønsker å slutte - DN.no

E24 - Halvparten av Norwegian-pilotene ønsker å slutte - Jobb - E24

Kjos was named 'Leader of the Year' by temporary staffing agency Manpower Inc.

Direct Bondi what you are writing is BULL**** !

The Spain pilot committee has just been elected last week, so HOW is it possible that they have made attempt during 6 months to establish a talk with Norwegian. They are just going to start doing it !

On the other hand, it's a 787 topic here.... the 787 has no spanish employee yet !

If you state something, maybe it is nice to confirm it is true and not just copy paste bull**** info.

Frankly GET A LIFE or a HOBBY or even a DOG !

slr737,

In reply to your ignorant post and to corroborate the facts;

It is irrelevant Norwegian's 787s have no Spanish pilots. The 787 and non-Scandinavian 737 divisions use the identical employment model to circumvent labor rights and labor principles. Kjos has stated his intention to open a 787 base in Spain.

Since 2014, SEPLA has represented over 80% of Norwegian's pilots in Spain. SEPLA first requested Norwegian to engage in mutually constructive talks on February 1, 2015. This is confirmed in the January 23, 2015, News Release on the SEPLA website - Link:

Sepla - Irregularities found in the hiring process of Spain-based pilots operating for Norwegian

In regard to the unilateral termination of contracts that occurred in late 2014, which may repeat, SEPLA reports in the release;

"In order to force the pilots into signing new contracts, the company [OSM] introduced aggressive tactics by establishing a deadline on short notice. Furthermore, pilots received written threats of contracts terminations if they chose not to comply with the imposed deadline".

Norwegian refused to recognize SEPLA, and in a letter to the US DoT on June 10 this year, the Secretary of the European Transport Workers Federation, Francois Ballestero, stated:

"The Spain based pilots have organized themselves under SEPLA, the Spanish Pilots Union, and have made repeated attempts to engage Norwegian, or representatives of Norwegian, for the purpose of constructive talks. For the past six months these repeated attempts have been ignored by Norwegian. As a reply to the efforts of the pilot representatives, Norwegian has stated that it does not have any pilots based in Spain, but a company called OSM does".

You may confirm these facts directly with Secretary Ballestero via his public domain email address, available on the European Transport Workers Federation website - Link:

European Transport Workers' Federation: The ETF Team

One final point, you are entitled to disagree with my posts, but please offer an intelligent rebuttal rather than expose your lack of intellect with profanity and adolescent remarks. That sort of conduct may be accepted within Norwegian, but it is not welcome here

Once again uninformed information taken from newspaper who have no clue on what is happening.

Yeah we have been a member in SEPLA since 2014. But a reduced member until lately since we had not full membership!
If you are within NAX, you would know that.
Since the NAX SEPLA committee has been established, we will now enjoy the full membership of SEPLA. But nothing happened much before, except a few letter from the SEPLA president which if we are not represented by an elected SEPLA board is useless.

Once again, direct bondi what you write is wrong.

slr737,

When comparing your recent post to mine, it is apparent you are unable to comprehend factual information, its origin and an alternative means of confirmation. In addition to the demonstrated lack of communication skills in your first post, these failings are all detrimental to flight safety. Readers may rightly question your competence in an aviation environment.

In consideration of the above, it is unfortunate you chose to identify yourself as a Norwegian crewmember on a public website.

DB - I have not been part of this debate (if thats what it is) but as an outside observer you really need to drop it and move on. You're display signs of an obsessive compulsive disorder so let it go. If guys want to join Norwegian - let them. It doesn't affect you. Get a hobby

Conversely if someone wants to post about Norwegian, let them. It doesn't affect you.

Absolutely fair comment but my post was meant as friendly advice, not criticism.

Would be awesome to fly the 787!

But there's always going to be a price. I think a bond for a TR is fair, kind of the old TRSS schemes years ago and that was up to 5 years.

A salary of £7500 is not good enough for the position and responsibility.

Problem is that every time an airline shakes the pilot tree there will always be pilots falling down and accepting t&c. As someone said before, some need to feed their families.

Norwegian is going through a tough time with unhappy employees, that will stay until conditions improve. If ever.

One can only decide what the price is worth to fly the 787 for a low cost carrier. And the risk of taking the job should the long haul have to stop operations.

The recent rosters have just popped out and there's now positioning within the US included along with positioning in to and out of Scandinavia instead of flying out of your LGW base.
I don't know what their game is but they're pissing off a lot of their pilots.

Welcome to the world of low cost long haul!

Yepp, guess you can say low cost. Few frequencies to some destinations. Instead of having guys three four days in Vegas or Frisco they position them to LA and fly home the next day. More days at home hopefully. It works for me but perhaps not for everyone commuting far to home. But some guys prefer being on the road :rolleyes:

BO its a fair comment, you can't put a price on being in your own bed, cutting your own grass and in your own man-cave...

More time off ?
No company pays to position crew back to home base , to then let them enjoy some xtra RnR . Its not commercial. Expect to be back at work sooner .

Time in hotels downroute usually earns more time off at home when you return, well in carriers ive wirked for, not pisitioning asap.

But good luck with this . .

Highfive; I agree. But what NLH is doing now is not positioning crew back home. Rather to a different city in US. I've been at airlines that do the same. The company saves production days and hotel costs.

A hotel in the US can easily cost USD 250 a night. Instead of having the crew there for - let's say - four nights, they positioning them with Southwest from Frisco to LA, and fly back home the next day. More days home (in my case).

A win-win situation. But of course, some always complain no matter.

At the risk of incurring the wrath of an unqualified pikey psychiatrist and an incompetent F/O for any criticism of Norwegian;

I assume the positioning of crew all around the US and Europe to save costs, is after full consultation with the pilot union, pilot committee, or whatever group the pilots believe may represent their best interests with Norwegian ?

DB. One doesn't have to be a qualified psychiatrist to recognise when someone isn't quite okay. As I said my post was meant as friendly advice and here is another snippet - it isn't necessary to 'win' every argument or discussion you get into. Say your piece and let others say there's. Accept that others may still have different opinions to you. Also its not necessary to insult people that have a different opinion to you.

Anyway, I'm sure you'll do your own thing. Its up to you.

Finally - in over 30 years, I've been fortunate to work for a couple of very large airlines and a national carrier and I've never known any airline consult the Union before deciding whether to position crew somewhere.

PS: Don't work for Norwegian and not planning to apply.

Sorry to slightly adjust the thread, but out of interest, has anyone else applied for Norwegian, completed " online tests " and then been told " You need to re apply " Then " if you have done the tests, they are valid for a year !" and then. sorry, but 2 days later.... please complete these on line tests ...

is the company better organised once you work for them ?

were there interviews in LGW this week ?

as an aside, as a British born, airline pilot of a few decades now. These tests, how the hell does anyone born elsewhere complete them, I struggled and I've been talking this language for quite some time. Good luck everyone

Pikey: One should not invent self-serving analysis of entirely appropriate responses to then falsely dramatize as insults. You may wish to self-analyze your first paragraph for its gross hypocrisy.

It is indeed most unusual for an airline to suddenly introduce a fleet policy of positioning crew to begin flights out of base. It is even more unusual to position crew from an overseas destination to another gateway for the return trip to base.

With the recent joining of forces of the various pilot groups into one united and "100% Norwegian" alliance, it is difficult to understand how this policy was introduced without any consultation. So much for recognition. What next, and for which group of the so-called alliance?

The NPG website suggests the alliance will take a proactive role. This has yet to be seen - Link: NPG | Norwegian Pilot Group

dB,
It would seem your constant posting here, relies purely on information you have gleaned from pprune, as you have no insider information as you clearly don't work for NLH.

' don't believe everything you read on the Internet '.

Norwegian pilots are not as one - SH has BALPA recognised as negotiating partner. LH doesn't, and probably won't.

DB. Calling people by derogatory names is a kind of playground thing that most guys grew out of by the time they wore long trousers. Please think about that.

I must have worked for some pretty unusual airlines. In one well known and respected long haul operation, it was common practice to operate to one particular destination, then position to another and operate the next sector from there. It was also quite common for the first or last sector of a long haul pattern to be a positioning sector.

Its what sharp airlines do. As much as I've on other occasions enjoyed a week off at a particularly nice destination, it doesn't always work out that way. Its not a holiday club for us. The airline has to minimise costs so positioning can be part of that. Rather than DB's suggestion that Unions are usually consulted, it would in my experience be 'most unusual' for a Company to go to a Union and ask if it is okay to position crew somewhere.

Perhaps DB can give us some insight to his background. How many years as a professional pilot and how many airlines with lets say more than 30 jets has he worked for.

Well said gypsy,
I'd consider that sort of positioning entirely normal TBH.

It would be nice if they want to leave me in Vegas for five days,but they don't seem keen

Hi guys I need of a suggestion.

I am flying in Asia as a fo the B747, net salary per month is around 7500$ but to get the upgrade to cpt I have to wait around 6 years and the problem is the family that I have left in Europe that is spoiling me to come back home.
Honestly also the quality of life in Asia is not so good in my personal opinion that's why I am considering to come back home and I have applied for this Norwegian 787 position.

Please could you give me some advices in terms of having a career here, if the salary is good enough to let my family have a decent life in uk (I am Italian) and the working environment ?

Ita ah important choice for me, thank you very much for your tips.

:-)

There are plenty of uk tax calculator websites to help you work out the take home pay.

To find out whats available for accommodation to buy or rent, you could use

UK's number one property website for properties for sale and to rent

UK supermarkets are reasonably cheap compared to many european countries due lots of competition.

Petrol about £1.09 per litre of unleaded at the moment.

Any truth in the rumour that they have placed another big order with boeing.

Yes,
Press release the other day, 19 more. I think that takes us through 30 in total.
Going to be much recruitment, and everyone's dreams will come true.....wanna be a TRI/E, LTC, capt whatever, they'll be plenty of room

wanna be the lowest paid TRI/E, LTC, capt whatever, they'll be plenty of room :}

So...with all these planes coming, Where will they get the pilots from? Is there any package increase on the cards? They sure need it to attract the guys from the Middle East. Permanent contracts for a start.

ct 2015, 17:18 #440 (permalink)
twentyyearstoolate

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: A hemisphere
Posts: 159
wanna be the lowest paid TRI/E, LTC, capt whatever, they'll be plenty of room
Last edited by twentyyearstoolate; 24th Oct 2015 at 18:01.


Nail, hammer, head.

But you can sit in your (really ****ty, certainly in OSL ) hotel room & jerk off to the fact you are living the "Dream"liner . . . .feckin retards. . . . . .