K Gusset/Essex lad:

“Well said” what exactly? No useful information was provided by your post, just a derogatory personal attack. I realize that enlightenment may sometimes disappoint, but do try and replace your unsavory objections to facts you refuse to accept, with constructive comment. Coincidentally, Kjos may not have considered the First Amendment at the time of his US Permit application.

The thread requests information on Norwegian’s UK 787 operation. Not only have I provided information, in most cases I have supported it with solid evidence. In particular, I hope I have enlightened many as to the true “employment relationship” with Norwegian and the reasons many find the Kjos, labor business model so objectionable – including 700 of Norwegian’s own pilots that went on strike last March.

I obviously touched a nerve with my reference to VAT. The fact remains, any type rating training provider in the UK is obliged to charge VAT. If pilots are being recruited by Norwegian and “charged” for their type rating, it is subject to VAT. Alternatively, if some other 30k or 40k payment is made to whomever and for whatever, it must be declared to HMRC by the recipient.

Guss, I fully support any pilot in their desire to obtain the employment of their choice. However, even you should see the irony in Norwegian’s 787 acquisitions:-

Built by a skilled workforce having government employment law oversight, labor rights and principles, including collective representation with their real employer.
Flown by a skilled workforce at an airline where none of these employment virtues are in place, allowed or dared to be openly communicated.

SAS and Lufthansa file new objections to Norwegian's business model, "A scheme that undermines Norway and European labor laws". Link:-

Kjos purret på Norwegians USA-søknad: SAS går til motangrep - Norwegian Air Shuttle - Børs og Finans - E24

Direct Bondi - can you provide answers to any of the queries I posted above please? I appreciate Shanwicks reply but I would rather read some info on rosters than just go with someone else's opinion that they are rubbish. When in the month are the rosters published? How many changes can one expect? How many days off between trips. How long are the trips?

How does the leave bidding work. Is there anyone here working for Norwegian who can confirm the suggestion above that it isn't possible to get all of the leave in and you end up selling it back?

Its obvious that many here are not fans of Norwegian but some info would be useful to help with decision making.

Thanks to all

Gypsy, didnt you ask any of these questions during your interview?
Do they actually do face to face interviews?!

They want 1000 hours min wide body now, i understand over 35 B777 guys from the desert are on the books.

Haven't been for an interview yet. its an old fashioned thing of working out if I'm interested before applying to avoid wasting my time and theirs - hence the quest for info.

1000 hrs wide body. Thats me out good luck to you all.

Roster
 

Hello everybody!

I really would appreciate infos about the Roster!

Typical Trip lenght, average days Off per month

Looking forward to your answers

Wide Body time is for skippers only, think just jet time for FO

If Norwegian Long Haul were to liquidate, for whatever reason, would those pilots having offered a bank guarentee to the company be better off than those who had simply deposited their 20-40000€ into the company's bank account?

One can therefore assume if you go as a Cruise Relief Captain, ( Read FO) then you could expect to wait until 2000 hrs for the upgrade AKA Qatar system. They seem to know there are many many NG Skippers out there chomping at the bit to get LHS and are clearly focusing on these people to fill the seats, in the meantime taking DECs from the pits..

I think 1000 hrs wide body is for internal promotion from RCA to CPT.
I.e you have to do a little longer to be considered.

RE gypsys question.
Roster is released exactly 14 days prior to the next month. They have taken account our preferences as some want back to back trips with slightly longer days off and some want shorter.

Leave was an issue, but with the upgrading to the rostering team, I've had no problems booking it recently.

Disruption, tends to only occur with tech issues. Don't normally get a change - standard month is 8 sectors.

RCA to CPT
 

I was under the impression that time from RCA to cpt was 500hrs ?

Have the goal posts moved ???

1,000hrs wide body is for direct entry captains.

I think it's 500hrs minimum for a upgrade from RCA to Captain, but it is seniority based, so if you do join as an RCA best not to expect an upgrade after 500hrs like its a God given right.

Time to command for RCA and first officer in Norwegian long haul will properly be quicker then most wide body carriers out there.

Learn the job and the aircraft make the most of flying the 787 and settle into the airline and see if it's for you and for the long run.

Does anybody has received any further info after on line test?

Fade to grey. 8 sectors doesn't sound bad. Is there a lot of deadheading? There's a lot of vague talk on here, rosters rubbish, rosters ok but despite requests still no examples of what a roster actually looks like. Post it on here in typing format if needs be. With a job that offered minimal to nothing in the way of extras such as healthcare, benefits, pension, the roster and pay are about all that's left to form a picture. The pay has been covered but not the example of what you actually are doing on the line. Thanks.

Bob, ive heard nothing since the online assessment.
Check your PM .

Same here, no further news since completed the online assessment.

Guys asking me via PM about roster.
I can't give you a typical roster, because it's infinitely variable.
This month I've had between 2-4 days off between trips, 4 trips of between 3-4 days duration.

Next month, more days off. I have averaged between 8-13 a month.

I don't do any deadheading at all, incidentally, unless there is disruption

Fade: 4 trips of 3-4 days duration is 12-16 days of work. That leaves 14-19 days off a month, not 8-13. What else is on your roster other than your 4 trips?

Burnable, give the guy a break! he's already said its not precise, but by my maths it adds up to a round 29 days, how many days are there in your months! Maybe "rest" or " "blank" or "STBY" account for the other 2 days:)

Don't bother to apply as Relief Captain there are plenty of internal 737 Captains who get priority....

Thank you Fade to grey for Sharing this Information about rosters with us.
Are you entiteled to ID Tickets other then Norwegian?

Best regards

Zapper

Commuting
 

Hi everyone.
Is it possible to consider commuting with that job ?
Does anyone commutes from continental Europe?
Thank you.

NLH pilots have free tickets to/from home base with NAS (but not vice-versa as of yet) so commuting to any destination served frequently from LGW by NAS should be both possible & free of charge.

If not, I believe Easy have "a few" destinations from LGW. :rolleyes:

Thanks avenger,
Yes, remember even if gatwick based a variable amount of those trips will start from
Scandinavia thus a four day trip becomes a five day trip for someone in the UK as you have to position the day before of course.

Simply put, imagine a worst month with 8 days off and the rest work or standby or open days.
Imagine a great month with 13 days off, a couple of trips and some standby..
There's your end markers.

The thing about nax 737 skippers given priority as RCas , I'm not sure that's relevant - not many have come as they are giving up a. Command and remember , with all these things, there is no guarantee of subsequent promotion, and the internal upgrade selection is quite a long process now it appears.

Speculatiog about lifestyles, pay, time off is pointless if you dont even make it to the initial interview stage.
Apparently the plan to conduct interviews in July/ August has been scrapped.

Could it be the failure of NLH to order any new airframes at Paris last week?

No idea if that's true,
But whether we order anymore or not we still hav ' several ' coming next year.
I'm looking forward to having a go on the -900 !

Average days off is about 11 at the moment (despite 8 in the contract). It is still a "start-up" and they are still learning, but the idea is to increase this to about half/half. Like in a normal long haul operation. NLH have 8 a/c at the moment. In three years they have more than double - 17 a/c. I am pretty sure that they will know by then how to schedule long haul crews, and that they have better flexibility with 17 a/c to schedule effectively. It will only get better, resulting in more days off per month. That's my guess.

It is a low cost company. They don't keep you on outstation longer than they need. Normally that is 24 hours. So, in three working days you do 20 block hours (average trip is 10 hours). Most guys fly a "W", four legs in six days clocking 40 block hours. You do that twice per month and you have your hours. A couple of standby days on top of that. This is how I believe it will look in a year's time.

A new contract will be out the next few days. The rumor is that the minimum off-days will increase. We'll see.

Upgrade based on seniority. But again, the fleet will more than double the next three years. And more orders on the way...

@ The Crew
 

Rishworth confirm there will be 9 days of screening in July and 3 days in August. 8 guys every day.

NLH need to crew 4 aircraft for next year. That's 100 pilots. The above is just for the two first.

Rumor is that the new sim scenario is in JFK... Do you know your Canarsie approach?! :rolleyes:

I was on the understanding that sim checks/personal interviews were carried out by Norwegian HQ, and not by Rishworth? The July / Aug screenings must be pre checking out a candidates bank balance before they are allowed to continue any further. As such, I believe there are no final sim checks etc arranged for either July or August.

However, July is only a week away. Most of us have our rosters for July, so Rishworth (or whoever) are not allowing the guys who are hard at it much time to arrange a trip to wherever they decide to screen. Again, not showing much intent to get the best guys. Just them who's keen, retired or unemployed .
Perhaps this is their mission ....

@ The crew
 

Sorry to say, but I just heard July is fully booked. Maybe your turn next time.

Candidates selected by Norwegian, and screened by Norwegian in Oslo. However, invited by Rishworth.

The crew, if you believe all is a set-up, enjoy the feeling while it lasts...

Hell no.
Missing out on the ' best candidates', really ?

Your definition , crew, And ours, may be at odds, if that is the case.

Yes, really. Anecdotal evidence ...If an invitation is issued to a candidate who has a full roster, they either decline, ask for short term leave or go sick. Most would try re arrange for a future date. Therefore, another candidate takes this interview slot. They may well be less suitable, and for arguments sake, perhaps "between jobs" , they are more flexible (read desperate) to attend any date given. This being a LoCo operation, BA its not, then if the less qualified pilot turns up and passes the interview they should a least expect a place in the holding pool. Sometimes it pays to be unemployed, retired or a wannabe.

patience is a virtue. I still think its a BA hold pool scenario. Recruit as many into it as possible, and then offer positions as needed, to whoever accepts first. I believe B777 pilots are the cheapest to train, and therefore would take precedence. Im now on the big bird, and my 777 is long expired .

I can only conclude that they have a pretty strong candidate base. 11k+ on smaller boeings and not a sniff of an interview. No idea how the online test went but I think I am fairly normal. Disappointed with the lack of feedback from Rishworth I must say.

Strong candidate database or not is not the issue. Airlines are totally entitled to pick whoever fits their requirements. However, I can only agree with you and your feeling of disappointment. Having also completed the online tests, my only expectation was at least to get a feedback in a "yes" or "no" form such as "your application is currently under review" or "thanks but we will no longer consider your application at this time". Unfortunately, Rishworth is not the only entity to be blamed for this lack of correction. Their lack of respect is not new and after all cannot be ignored by whatever organization asked them to handle the administrative side of the hiring process.

Totally agree with you SotE that interviews should only be issued on merit as defined by the interviewer age, ratings, experience, inside leg measurement or what ever they choose. My point is that prior to interview it is a numbers game and there are clearly plenty of people with more numbers and boxes ticked than myself. It would just be nice to have an indication of where I stand.

Circa three weeks from on line test no info. Shall I assume a no go?
I think I performed fairly well beside some tech issues with my PC during multitasking...

There are plenty of posts on PPRUNE regarding the unscrupulous and unethical behaviour of recruitment agencies. The employer in this case is not the agency, not the airline but a third party, set up by an agency whose reputation is allegidly under scrutiny. Enough said.

An earlier posting on this thread said that they finally received a reply from Rishworth a year after applying. Clearly Rishworth will be keeping their cards close to their chests, and as such will not say yay or nay until they need to. Gone are the days of social etiquette and communication. You are expected to Apply, wait, wait more , get frustrated, and hear nothing. Easy, Ryanair are no different. Its the modern era of don't call us.

This is not a P2F job. Its P2L (pay to leave). As such Norwegian are "giving" you the rating, and not deducting the usual fee of around euro 30,000 from your salary. In return you will cough up a returnable deposit. There are very few jobs allowing direct entry and offering a top rating in the process.

However, at the end of the day, many candidates are well paid expats, with kids at private schools, mortgages minimal. Rishworth have no idea how many will actually take the plunge and resign from Emirates, Ethiad, KE, Cx, SQ etc to join a newbie start up.

I suspect the Please F**k Off emails will never arrive.

Rumour in the news is that Norwegian CEO will sign for another 17 Dreamliner the coming weeks. That is then 34 in total the next few years, however unclear how fast they will arrive

I hear 50 is the target.

Give it another two weeks and the terms and conditions have changed. Flight Ops has promised a new contract with improved conditions by the end of June. :ok:

My understanding is that OSM aviation, who employe the short haul pilots will in due course become the employer of the long haul pilots. Lets be clear this arrangement is very different from say Brookfield.

Pilots employed by OSM pay taxes and social insurance in the countries where they are based.

The long haul operation appears to be reaching a critical mass, with 8 in service and 4 more due in 2016, the loads are reported to be very good. The 787 is settling down nicely.