Another 22 pilots are upgraded this August (that's 10 percent of all pilots).

Until now, more than 30 are already upgraded (or in process). All-in-all, 25 percent of all pilots have been upgraded within the first two years of operation. Having said that, the company has about 70 CPTs not upgrading...

Early next year it's another 20+ upgrades.

Upgrade is only based on seniority for everyone fulfilling the minimum requirements.

The company takes fewer and fewer direct entry RCAs and CPTs. Still they need to 'cause they cannot upgrade fast enough. When training dept. is up to speed, they will hire only FOs.

I believe the above is honest from the company's perspective, is impressive and fair for all.

Boeing operator is on the money....
I think we need to keep it in perspective as legacy carrier pilots wait decades for promotion possibilities,
And it's available fairly rapidly at NLH.

Yes but it's better to be an F/O with a legacy than a Captain with an LCC.

What ever makes you happy...

If I may offer some perspective from a buddy who's a chef.. He'd rather be cooking in a well established, respectable restaurant with demanding customers than doing (exactly) the same thing at some run down family joint with 2-for-1 chicken wings and tequila happy hour.

While the job once the flight deck door closes remains the same regardless of tail markings, there is a lot to be said for being associated with a respectable airline, brand and image. There may well be an elephant in the room regarding this, but many of us take pride in our company, customers and reputation.

Hence many (most?) will prefer FO at a legacy to a command at a LCC.

@quadspeed

Exactly, whatever makes everyone happy.

However, what you're also saying is that some prefer flying as a CPT in a LCC rather than as FO in a legacy carrier. I am one of them. For me, the comparison is between Norwegian long haul and SAS since I live in Scandinavia. I would not change to a FO position with SAS :=

Whereas I take pride in what I do and it doesn't matter what colour the fin is.

I'm not convinced that the reputation of your airline, whoever it is, rubs off on you as much as you like to think.

Completely understandable. Our choices are driven by motivation, and motivation varies Some like status. Some like being at home every night. Some like the size of their jet. And some just need to get the bills paid.

Maybe not. But my passengers certainly believe they are getting something more than just a nice bottle of Merlot for that first class ticket. And perception goes a long way my friend.

Yes, but that's different to you, as a pilot, being associated with whichever airline.

In my humble opinion, customers who pay 30,000 usd for a ticket come to expect something resembling the Company's profile also from the staff.. maybe especially from the flight deck crew. For some, being held to a perceived high standard is important. You may be surprised how many retired ex Legacy Captains find it hard to adjust to being just another Joe Blow. And that is all about you, the pilot.

You are just another Joe Blow, doesn't matter a jot who you work for.

If one thinks that one isn't then one has an ego problem.

I"m sorry but you failed to get my point. We were discussing what motivates people. What your opinion is on someone else's motivation is irrelevant to the discussion.

Huh? Discussing what motivates people but opinions on it are irrelevant. There's no discussion then is there!

And when have you experienced 'quality' Chesty?! 3 years only on Boeings in that 'Gutter' of the North - when you've been part of something special, a two-way employer and rewarded well, you'll get what Quadspeed is saying.

Don't forget to say 'Have a great Holiday'!

All I'm saying is that there is more to employment than just driving the thing.

Walking through the lounge and down the jet bridge I for one feel a part of something larger. From the beds in first class to the wine selection in business, our product is of a high standard and we price it accordingly. Our customers certainly appreciate our product , and I'm proud to be a part. I speak to our customers with pride in our airline, and know that they expect nothing less than excellence in return for their money.

Whatever way you choose to look at it, it feels good to be a part of it and I for one would rather sit there with 3 stripes than in some flying circus with four.

And if choosing otherwise, then I think we can discuss your mention of who's ego needs checking.

Sean, been there done that and I'm not likely to spread my entire career history over pprune just for you. I'm now more than happy with my current choice thanks.

Taking you as an example - even now you're a bright eyed new boy at BA you're still the same noob as always.

By the way your use of single quotation marks to highlight your opinion is wrong.

You can take your vitriolic attitude and shove it.

OMG quad speed, you've swallowed the huggy fluffy stuff.

Is your definition of excellence dropping engine parts all over North London. :D

It is of course, horses for courses.
But I've gotta say my roster is sweet. My leave is allocated. 10 days off a month contracted from November.

I don't have any major complaints

Hows that € rate coming along, £1 =€1.45 ?

10 days off per month, on long haul?

Good grief. But no " major" complaints so alls well 😜

Perception, dear friend. Perception.

Yeah, I know, but who's perception of who?

fade to grey "10 days off a month contracted from November." is an improvement from the "office workers" minimum of 8 you have had in your contract up to now, but, doesn't it cheese you off that the 737 drivers have 12 ? shome mistake shurely ? long haul used to be attractive for, amongst other things, more time off. . . .where did it all go wrong ?

Oh, that's easy dear chap . The customers perception of who is flying their airplane.

I thought I made that clear. But not to you it seems.

The bottom line is that some pilots like to be associated with a particular brand. And everything that goes with that.

As for 'most', then the best we can do is look at the numbers going from legacy to lcc, or the other way around. And after that, just let the numbers speak for themselves. I've done both, believe me, and so has most of my colleagues.

Since everybody asked my opinion:
Been there, done that: Flying left seat on wide bodies for small carriers, pax and cargo.
Also flown right seat for big firms, worlds largest nowadays, 15,000 pilots.
Had more fun doing the smaller airlines, big fish in a small pond and all that.
Working for huge airline gets a bit dull after a while, everything is canned and too much Standardization. During a recent simulator check they had changed the procedures and call-outs. Instead of calling for speed, it was now speeds.
The instructor kept hissing in my ear speedsss, not speed, confused me while trying to climb out on one engine after a V-1 cut. I flew the jet fine and put it back on the ground fine, but got dinged for the speeds, or speed call, still not sure what the problem was.
Don't need the status and recongnition of a major airline, but the benefits are great.
That being said, more work, less pay with a smaller outfit, but more fun. More pay, less work with a big one.
Would like to have my cake and it eat too.
Or just retire early, been doing this too much anyways.
Carry on chaps, without me..

Capt,
Yes that's correct, short haul do get more and that is a bone of contention.

Euro rate is of no interest to me, paid in pounds now at a favourable rate.

How patently sad. Luckily I don't need that kind of affirmation to make my life satisfying.

I think that's wonderful and I wish you nothing but the best. If everybody wanted to fly legacy there would be nobody to haul sh1tfaced Scousers to ibiza for the weekend.

Different strokes for different folks. Pay me enough and I'll even haul rubber dogsh1t out of Hong Kong. Oh wait. I already do that.

And I agree with you TD that the status and recognition that comes with a major airline doesn't itself put food on the table or keep the neighbor out of my bed half the month.

But it does provide me with first class travel, a decent retirement cushion and a standard of operation that goes beyond the regulated minimums. I fly with colleagues who have chosen to be here as opposed to wishing they were somewhere else. The flying doesn't leave much to the imagination and the greens take me from the runway to the gate to the bed, but at the end of the day I'm left with enough time and cash to jump in the two seater parked in a hangar a short drive away if I ever feel the need.

You've tried both worlds and creds for choosing the glove that fits the hand. I know guys who have gone from legacy to lcc at their own choosing and never looked back. But let's be honest about it; they're the exception rather than the rule.

Come on
 

Gents,

I think we get a litte of Topic here. It is so simple, Not all of US have the choice.

There Are Pilots Out their, that have been employed with major carriers for a Long Time (Sabena for Example). Since the Company went bust, I know a guy who went through 7 insolvencies! So what, Are they worse pilots? of course Not!
but they just don't have the choice! What about if you have worked As a Cpt for Ten years and your Company goes titts up? You have nearly no Chance with the Major Airlines in Europe, it is more then great, that companies like Norwegian give you the Chance! Happy for everybody, who is in a Lucky Position, high seniority with a Legacy, or Major Airline, great, but Not everybody can choose, don't forget this!

I Miss some airmenship every now and then in this Forum!

happy Landings, to all of you

Zapper,

You are barking up the wrong tree here mate. In the UK, anyone not in the upper echelons of a legacy seniority list is considered a lesser being and if they suffer redundancy, then it is exactly what they deserve for not being one of the chosen ones. Nothing to do with luck of course, the blessed ones were individually chosen by god to be superior to everyone else and it is their sacred duty to rub our noses in it.

You sentiments are appreciated and mirror my own.

Merci and bon chance.

If you want to join a legacy carrier then go do it, but make sure you are young.

We had guys join big airways from my last outfit on the clapped out 767 . As they know it's 400 years to a shot at command, big airways tries to keep them interested by coming up with courses for them with names such as ' diversity in the cockpit with applied shamanism ' or some such stuff.
Not only that their rosters are sh.....not good, as there are 120,000 pilots above them on the seniority list.

Can't see the attraction if you're over 30. But then again I never had much patience .

Improved conditions
 

Gents,

Anybody nows the improvement on the Pay for RCA and FO's?

I guess the number that Fade to Grey poseted earlier was for CPT's!?

Cheers

I was interested in this airline myself, BUT it's nuts to pay 30K up front to a company that might go bust. If they failed in a big way you could kiss that deposit goodbye.
I bet their financial chaps say it's in a secure but little known bank, that then turns out to be owned by guess who, so goes bust at the same time as the airline.

I've written a letter to the EASA medical folks saying that any new co-pilot that pays up front for a type rating should fail a class 1 medical on the grounds of insanity!

Really, do some research before you start talking sh.....rubbish .

The bank involved is one of the largest in the world .
It's not some conspiracy between the banks, Rishworth and aliens .

So was the Royal Bank of Scotland.

Fade, we appreciate your opinions on your experience of Norwegian. Even though you had little choice with your decision.

I don't share your vitriol agains being in BA, it was the place to be and may well still be.As conditions of service in BA have fallen, those offered by the rest have plummeted. Except in Asia.

Interestingly, we never hear of Virgin pilots leaving. They must now be considered No.1 :D

No vitriol.
I'm merely giving my impression of why it wouldn't be of interest . If your under 30 I imagine it would be.

I agree Virgin pilots don't seem to be unhappy with their lot

And of course , you always have a choice.
Especially when you are dealing with a large chunk of your own money

fade to grey quote:

"The bank involved is one of the largest in the world. It's not some conspiracy between the banks and Rishworth"

It is implausible in the extreme to suggest the above condition makes the Norwegian up-front payment scheme both ethical and legitimate, even less so due to the involvement of New Zealand based Rishworth, via their Sweden office and Crawley UK, broom cupboard affiliate.