Norwegian 738 incident. Go2Sky Pilots "contracted" in?

Connect the dots.

Comair Flight 5191, marketed as Delta Connection Flight 5191.... Dots connected SR71. There is a laundry list available if needed.

Pathetic

skull,

I'm sure there was a question mark in there somewhere...

But you're right. No one has a monopoly on stupidity.

Well done.

Nothing will happen. Denying NAI the approval on grounds of article 17 bis without any legal basis will undermine the credibility of the open skies agreement, which, in case of a sure retaliation of the EU, would eventually deliver a big blow to the US airline industry as the US big 3 are among the main profiteers from said agreement. Not being a fan of Trump, but he and especially his advisors are intelligent enough to see through this. And this is not even accounting for the positives that increased travel will bring to the US economy.

So you and your union friends can cry and moan as much as you like, eventually the new reality will sink in.

Here is an excellent and factual analysis from earlier this year:

http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/norwegian-airs-nai-awaits-final-approval-of-us-rights-credibility-of-us-eu-open-skies-is-at-stake-283001

Some quotes:

"It seems that one of the side effects of US consolidation has been to concentrate considerable political power (in addition to market power) in the hands of the three major legacy airline groups. The US big three have benefited hugely from consolidation and from the US-led open skies movement, which provided the context for the anti-trust immunity of the powerful North Atlantic joint ventures that dominate that market.

Now faced with a new competitor developing a new business model, they have joined forces with their own labour unions and are seeking to shut the door on competition"

and

"In its analysis of 17-Mar-2016, DoT's General Counsel stressed that no public interest analysis was necessary, but "it would be very difficult to construe promoting the competitive position of United States carriers as a compelling reason to outright reject a fit foreign competitor"

Its analysis added that "it would be entirely novel and legally unsustainable" to find that this and the labour issue outweigh all the other public interest factors supporting NAI's application, including:


the availability of low-priced services;
maximum reliance on competitive market forces;
avoiding unreasonable industry concentration;
freedom to offer prices corresponding to demand;
elimination of operational and marketing restrictions;
opportunities for foreign carrier services in exchange for comparable rights and
action consistent with international agreements
"

Says it all really...

Parkbremse. "So you and your union friends can cry and moan as much as you like,"

Nothing like nailing your colours to the mast.

And, by the way, "Trump and his advisors are intelligent enough to." This is the man who does not think that global warming is man made and has appointed an environment secretary who is best friends with the fossil fuel industry.

Scaremongering. And that ad nauseam repeated "flags of convenience " argument is pathetic, if it were true than no carrier with an Irish AOC and fully compliant to the regulations of the IAA could fly to the US :ugh:

The US Big 3 control 38% of NAT Traffic, Norwegian, although growing rapidly, has just 3% of ASK and on a lot of their routes, they don't even have an American competitor. NAIs narrowbody ops out of Ireland to the east coast will be completely new, as there is no US competition at all for these kind of flights. That Norwegian is singled out as the devil in person which will destroy the complete US Airline Industry with the over and over repeated half-truths or simply false statements is not only totally crap and unfounded, it shows that the whole argument against them is agenda driven (protectionist and anti competitive) and not based on the facts at hand. And the facts show clearly that not only the Norwegian operation is legit, but also that the competition from Norwegian has a minuscule impact on the US big 3, is creating jobs in the US and has a positive effect on the economy and therefore does not actually warrant such a strong reaction. I refer again to the link I posted earlier of the in my opinion excellent analysis on the subject, if anyone is really interested in a factual discussion.

Is that your way of telling everyone that you either aren't capable or wiling to engage in a facts based non polemic debate? I would love to hear a facts based argument as to why NAI, an EU registered airline which is fully compliant to the rules of an EU member state, should not be awarded US foreign air carrier rights under the US-EU open skies agreement. The DoT would to hear one too, as they and their brigade of lawyers actually spend three years looking for one, without success (big surprise).

There would seem to be 42 pages on here for starters and you are pretty much the only one defending. Wonder why.

The DOT did not issue Norwegian’s US permit for almost three years, while most permits are issued within weeks following application. Ultimately, the DOT may have had no choice in the matter.

Obama has made no secret of his dislike for Putin and last week ordered a full investigation of any Russian influence affecting the election outcome. In a move that would anger Putin, the US wants a submarine base in northern Norway, and:-

“it must be treated politically”

http://www.dagbladet.no/2016/05/28/n...tikk/44371919/

But what news from my union chums, the ones held in such contempt by the German based Kjos mouthpiece and purveyor of Norwegian snake-oil;

December 8, AFL-CIO union, TTD – Press Release:

http://ttd.org/news-and-media/press-...dministration/

“WASHINGTON, DC — Transportation union leaders across all sectors gathered today for their post-election meeting to assess the landscape in Washington and lay the groundwork for a unified effort under a Trump Administration.

“Our discussion today was focused on boosting investment in transportation and protecting the rights of working people against a torrent of political attacks designed to weaken unions,” said Edward Wytkind, president of the Transportation Trades Department, AFL-CIO(TTD).

“We also vowed to defend against assaults on labor and safety protections in our laws, and work with those who want to change American trade policy so it aligns with the economic interests of American workers.”

The Executive Committee took aim at the wrongheaded decision by the U.S. Department of Transportation to approve the controversial application of Norwegian Air International (NAI) for a foreign air carrier permit.

“Transportation unions were clear today in their resolve to stop the first-ever job-killing ‘flag-of-convenience’ airline sanctioned by our government from destroying U.S. airline jobs. We will continue urging President Obama to intervene and reverse the NAI decision,” Wytkind said”

"Europe" should step up as well, and KILL the US freight-dogs (fedeks&Uhhps) operation in europe, destroying european airline jobs, the dogs even live in europe:yuk:

Yeah, that FedEx has a base in CGN, and runs internal EU operations using N-registered aircraft, really disgusts me. I am a dual US-EU national, so I have split loyalties. But I know for certain if an EU cargo company set up a US crew base and flew internal US operations using EU registered aircraft, the US unions would be screaming bloody murder.

"we" are simply not allowed to.

When we (europe) land in de USofA we can fly to another US base but we CANNOT take extra freight from "B" to take to "C"...(not 1 kg..)..:mad:

Never thought I would admit to having something to learn from the Americans, but, it seems we do. . . . . .

The EU isn't a single country and FedEx isn't doing it with crew operating as contractors under a rediculous training bond and disgustingly low pay and work rules either.

The EU and US carriers both have 5th freedom rights so if any carrier wanted to open a US base with European crew they are more than welcome to fly to Canada, Mexico, any other nearby country.....just like FedEx does.

The argument from us isn't over those rights. It's over NAIs flag of convenience model and in regards to flight crew.

2nd year FedEx FO pay and benefits blowNorwegian CAPTAIN pay out of the water. So I don't know why you would bemoan a company that keeps flying "in house" and pays pilots exceedingly well compared to almost every other company on the planet. Instead come negotiation time I would take their contract and slide it across the table.

Direct Bondi
 

You seem to have a lot invested in this thread and this begs the Question why ?

Have you worked for a part of the Norwegian group ?

Did they ask you to leave ?

As I said on a previous post not a lot of dogs hang on to a bone this long and you motivation interests me as much as the content of your posts.

I too would like to know the answers to A and C 's questions Direct Bondi. And before you get defensive I am not disagreeing with you , I would just like to know why you have such an invested interest....
There are other LCC within the EU who have much much worse pay conditions and some make there pilots pay for their own uniform- so why not take a shot in that direction also?????

Regards,
SAR

Not much of a defense for the Norwegian regime A and C.

With your 5,885 posts it is apparent you spend a vast amount of time on this website. It is neither my concern nor interest why. Similarly, the causes I choose to pursue, or not to pursue, is none of your concern.

Unfortunately, the Norwegian bone has a never ending supply of meat. Reports of Norwegian’s operational incongruities and “labor relations” issues appear regularly.

Readers can decide for themselves any relevance and value from my contributions to this thread.

Regarding pay on Norwegian LH. Lets say you started out as an FO 3 years ago on LH. You just upgraded to captain on the osm contract year 1. Monthly pay :
Basic 8125 £
Per diems 913 £
Lets assume 89 hrs for the month and 4 unused standby duties : 4091 £
Total : 13129 £ plus pension comes in at 5 percent.
Assume a 4th year FO who failed his upgrade and on a OSM contract : Monthly pay 7852 £ plus 5 percent pension..
On initiating contract you provide a bank guarantee(ie no money up front) and are free to walk after 3 years
Im no Kjos apologetics, but is this really such a bad pay that the airline should be denied a permit?

No it is not. I have heard that their finance rates are much much higher than the average because they haven't been around for long enough in LH to warrant decent rates. This plus the rising oil price and weakening economy should put a stop to them.

Excellent news all round.