^important!

I think they are not serious, AT ALL.

Several friends of mine, flying the 777 as FO and cruise relief captian in a major company with at least 3 years of long haul experience and more than 6000 hrs total flight time went for the interview for CAPTAIN RELIEF position.....

during the interview they were even told that being cruise relief captain they should espect after 1 year to be upgraded to Cpt....

all went good, very good.... they passed the interview and they received the email with the offer for FO position!!!!

Of course they refused. I do not understand, if I apply for Capt relief why offer me a job as FO? If I do not perform well in the interview just tell me that i am not maybe ready to be relief captain or fail me, They should speak clear...I know many who got same treatment and apparently they are offering this position to captains coming from FR..

Furthermore, a friend of mine passed the interview as I said, so He replied to them asking why he was offered a FO position if all went good and He applied as Relief CPT....they did not reply for 3 days and then he received another e-mail stating they are sorry but he did not pass the assessment!!! Amazing! How can I trust a Company if they treat you in this way before joining the them!!!

Far from them!

What O’Leary says

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFYWbCw-T7M

Hence the reason I used the phrasing "sort of like" instead of "exactly like". Perhaps you need an English refresher...

Depending on the terms of the reservation with the hotel, you may be charged fully or partially for the entire duration of your reservation, regardless of whether you stay the full time or check out early.

Thank you for highlighting the unsavory conditions at Norwegian, above.

Perhaps one day, you and your kind may provide a more convincing argument in defending the regime - that would indeed be refreshing.

Here is a piece of advice for you from nearly 30 years of flying, and well over two decades of doing it professionally on three different continents:

The industry is a mess and there is nobody who is going to look out for you, not your union, not your company, not your colleagues. And every new airline that comes along is ALWAYS accused of "lowering the bar", or "dragging down the profession". Anyone that innovates, regardless of industry, is considered dangerous and faces opposition (look at the opposition to Uber or the issues Elon Musk is facing getting his Tesla cars to the market in a lot of countries). As time passes, the innovator or new entrant becomes the establishment and soon another new entrant is branded as "evil".

Let's look at some of the airlines in North America as an example. In the early 1980s a new ultra-low cost airline called PeoplExpress was founded. Pilots were poorly paid, lacked union protection, and were forced to do jobs like taking tickets, helping to load bags, and clean the cabin. They were considered dangerous and their pilots were often accused by their peers as lower the bar of the profession. Fast forward 30 years and where are all those guys who were working for PeoplExpress? They are all senior captains at United (Continental bought PeoplExpress and now Continental has merged with United). So the guys who were at one point lowering the bar are now the senior ALPA members at one of the largest legacy airlines in the world.

Southwest was also considered dangerous at one point, so much so that the establishment went to court to fight them.

Virgin America was considered the worst airline in North America by the established airlines and the unions. The pilots were treated poorly and looked down upon for..."lowering the bar" (see a common theme here?). Now VX is a proud ALPA member and being merged with another legacy airline.

Southwest airlines required their prospective pilots to get a 737 type rating for nearly 40 years, only recently dropping the requirement. While SWA was never officially tied to the type rating mills, they certainly had a close relationship with one or two, and thousands of pilot shelled out thousands of dollars to get their 737 ratings hoping for a shot with SWA.

So my point is that while the idea of paying for a type rating, or providing a bank guarantee, or paying for training, or paying for line experience, may not be palatable for most of us, the reality is that this is overwhelmingly what the industry is. For every guy that gets hired by a big legacy airline, has everything paid for, and has a nice trouble free 30 year career before riding off into the sunset on his nice pension, there are 20 or 30 other guys who have to bounce around between multiple airlines, working multiple contracts and various parts of the world, or who end up flying for second rate carriers. If you are certain that you are going to land your dream job at Lufthansa, Delta or Qantas, then go ahead and roll the dice and be thankful if you land it. But refusing another job because they are "lowering the bar" will do nothing to change the industry. The only thing that will change the industry is the market.

Here is a piece of advice I got from an acquaintance of mine. At 25 years old he was hired by PeoplExpress and is now a senior 777 captain at United based in EWR. When he was hired at PeoplExpress, friends and acquaintances of his that got hired at PanAm, TWA and Eastern all accused him of lowering the bar. He has ended up having a nice and relatively steady career, while most of them have ended up bouncing around with several different airlines. His advice to me was to always take the best available offer that you have, even if it may not be the best job out there. Because you have no way of knowing what will happen over the next 10, 20 or 30 years. What may be a crap job today can end up being the best job in 20 years, and the best job today may not exist in 20 years.

"Good point well made" as they say . . . best of luck to those who roll the dice

(fortunately the rating & a bit of experience will give you a joker card or two in the deck https://jobs.flightglobal.com/job/14...&cm=2016-09-03 )

NEDude;

After 33 years flying transport category jets all over the world, including flying in the US during the Lorenzo and Icahn 80’s, I do not need your advice on this, nor any other matter. Thank you very much. You are entitled to your opinion.

Quote:

---

Anyone that innovates, regardless of industry, is considered dangerous and faces opposition

---

Via his novel and complex labor model, Kjos has introduced the “innovation” of circumventing labor laws, labor rights and labor principles for pilots and cabin crew flying with most of his airline divisions, and in some instances charging pilots 30K for the privilege!

Defending Norwegian’s abhorrent regime on the pretense of innovation and that it may be the best job in 20 years, is neither legitimate nor palatable.

Norwegian takes advantage of a broken relationship:

“Actor. LA. Newly single. Seeks likeminded partner with GSOH”

http://www.cntraveler.com/story/merciless-norwegian-air-jumps-on-brangelina-breakup-with-new-ad

A similar ad might read:

“Pilot seeks airline direct employment relationship, long-term, 787 position at LGW. No training payment ransom. Management integrity and competence essential”

At present, Norwegian does not meet all the prerequisites.

Yep, loved the ad, as did many others which is why it went viral. Fantastic marketing.

Seriously, get another hobby...

“Fantastic marketing” was last week. Today, Saturday, October 1st, Norwegian is once again leaving passengers distraught and stranded due to lack of crew:

http://e24.no/naeringsliv/norwegian-air-shuttle/norwegian-kunder-fortviler-mangler-personell-kansellerer-ruter/23809012

“Lack of crew and standby crew causes Norwegian to cancel flights to and from Spain”

Ferielystne nordmenn raser etter Norwegian-kanselleringer: ? Håpløst! - Norwegian Air Shuttle - VG

Another episode in Bondi's personal war against Norwegian, but why ?

Because he's right.

I think he is trying to save a few good men and woman making a wrong decision in joining an agency who is employing contractors to operate Norwegian planes. Either under Irish, UK or Norwegian registration. If you speak up a bit about anything (20 days away from home in a row? Bad sick pay? Floating bases? Clowns in management bending the rules to upgrade themselves ahead of the group, and changing the rules after their own upgrade) within the company you are thrown out after your 2-3 year contract.

UK based longhaul pilots not paying tax to the HMRC?

Hey , it's all hearsay, but from good sources.

I think you should check your sources to come up with some facts instead of hearsay.

- Cant really comment about management but to be honest, but some hearsay about pilots bitching about management decisions I've heard literally about every airline on this planet, from Loco to Legacy.
-Afaik, everybody whose 3year contract ended got a new permanent contract with OSM and wasn't thrown out
-20 days away from home, not really from what i have seen so far. Might have been like that in the beginning but now, this seems to be the very rare exception and certainly not the norm.
-What are floating bases you talk about? The contract says base LGW and thats it. Of course you will fly from other bases but in that case they arrange travel between London and whatever place you fly from, including travel days. Just like in every other airline.
-Everybody living in the UK will pay UK taxes in full! Everybody not living in the UK will pay taxes according to the bilateral agreement between the UK and the country of living.

Parkbremse:

Regarding the "bitching" of management You can just read up on all the cases they have won in court: Pilot group 9, management 0! More to follow...

I have heard from friends inside Norwegian that lots of changes are happening to the basing situation.

Could be interesting to see what happens.

I work at Bondi´s favourite airline.
1) I am not away 20 days in a row. Minimum trip 3 days, maximum 7. Unless you commute from a less accessible area of the world.
2) 30 days sick leave. Do you need more?
3) Base policy changing to a mix of bidding between fixed, floating or gateway.
4) Clowns in management! Sure there are. I just haven´t met them yet.
5) Everybody gets their contracts renewed. We need them.
6) Taxes payed in UK or your country of residence.

So far I have only encountered nice and friendly and easygoing people. Every scheduling request has been awarded. Just the few usual complaints.
I am very happy with my choice. If you feel repulsed by my airline, try and take a wild guess at what my advice to you would be!

Bunkbastard,

Is it possible to choose not being based in LGW but to a have specific gateway to start your duty? So it means you can commute?

Connected with point 3) above? No based at LGW you pay taxes on your home base?

Thanks

The new base policy has not been finalised yet, but this is what we expect. Should make it much easier to commute.
Regarding taxes, you will have to talk to someone more competent than me.