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British Airways Direct Entry Pilot

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British Airways Direct Entry Pilot

Old 7th Dec 2023, 09:41
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Originally Posted by Right Engine
Re:BA I’m more than happy to speak the truth (as an insider) but whoever is putting out the rumours about training cultures here, is talking nonsense. BA training culture is the last part of our brand that I remain proud of.
Anyone who says otherwise is usually a part of the problem and typically if they are complaining as a new entrant, it is MOST likely they received blunt honesty from their trainers because they had very poor team skills.

However, if you are the sort who struggles in the simulator, but has a healthy sense of persecution, then I guess you’ll start this type of rumour. The psychology of accepting your mistakes and working on them is very much part of the BA training culture. Self improvement. Those who describe it otherwise, are probably the type of pilot who feel their self improvement is not necessary.
This is accurate.

On the few occasions where the sim becomes a challenge, it is usually due to the poor CRM of the person next to you rather than the person in the back. Good CRM is a subtle business and requires a degree of emotional intelligence which a small minority of our colleagues lack. It is rare to experience this from a trainer however - I can perhaps think of 2 or 3 names from my entire time in BA. The other point to remember is that such is the size of the company, if you do have a clash of personalities with someone it will likely be somewhere between 5 years and never before you see them again.
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Old 7th Dec 2023, 10:19
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Iíve just come through the BA training system having completed my A320 TR, and Iím now flying the line. I found all the trainers I encountered to be professional, supportive and actually quite nice people. I was given constructive and balanced feedback so was happy with that side of things.

Itís not perfect, I think they could make some improvements - but thatís less about the trainers and more to do with the course footprint (imho).

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Old 7th Dec 2023, 10:44
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Originally Posted by Phantom4
Not so Sir,there are new hitmen who brief the stand in to make deliberate mistakes.
The previous mentioned ‘ Names’ include a Mid Eastern sounding name who employs these tactics and kicks the seat when he wishes to employ that tactic.
IMHO as a previous BTC, and STC,he should be reminded of his primary role as a TRAINER not a destructive force.
The Unions should ensure this ‘ Unsavoury Character’ not my words but a recipient of his recent behaviour is not considered for a Trainer Transfer to Long Haul where he can inflict more misery and damage.
If that is the case then its time to make a stand as I did back in 1975.I was down to do night recency on the VC 10 with a Captain being checked out as a training captain by a management captain.
He messed me about in a totally unacceptable way and in my view was most unprofessional if not downright rude.
He said my performance was not good enough and would have to be reflown.
I was furious and told him his shortcomings, politely but firmly. .
Expecting a p45 when the management captain invited me for a “chat”in his TBA office, I was told it was about time someone told him, he had failed the “would be” training captain and agreed with my comments. I dont think he pursued a training career, and fortunately I never encountered him on the line. !It would have been even worse than flying with captain G !
Re flying the trip a week later with a very pleasant TC , all went very well and I never encountered such nonsense again , at least not in BA! At an interview with Norman Todd he told me he had been through my training file I suspect that incident was never written up and certainly not held against me. Anyone inflicting pain and damage, or even unpleasantness, or having created a reputation as an unsavoury character, in training simply does not understand the objectives of the job , so perhaps its time to discuss such problems with BALPA or request a meeting with James Basnett, once head boy at my daughters school, Repton, and was introduced to flying with flight deck trip on a 737 with my best mate being the Captain on the flight !
Coffee finished !

Last edited by RetiredBA/BY; 7th Dec 2023 at 11:00.
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Old 7th Dec 2023, 19:58
  #544 (permalink)  
 
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Whose ?

...
I am a bit confused about whether we are discussing the current (alleged) shortcomings of the flight training departments (and their sky-god skills) of BA or BA Euroflyer.

BA Euroflyer at Gatwick has achieved its own AOC and now seems to have its own training department. However much of the line pilot and trainer staffing seems to have been brought over (or pushed) from BA at Heathrow.

I presume Ph-4's suggestion that the FTM and his deputy are both LTS refers to Euroflyer.
What is going on ? - "I think we should be told" as they say in PI.

LFH
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Old 7th Dec 2023, 21:51
  #545 (permalink)  
 
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FTM issue is LHR.
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Old 11th Dec 2023, 10:29
  #546 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Phantom4
Not so Sir,there are new hitmen who brief the stand in to make deliberate mistakes.
The previous mentioned Ď Namesí include a Mid Eastern sounding name who employs these tactics and kicks the seat when he wishes to employ that tactic.
IMHO as a previous BTC, and STC,he should be reminded of his primary role as a TRAINER not a destructive force.
The Unions should ensure this Ď Unsavoury Characterí not my words but a recipient of his recent behaviour is not considered for a Trainer Transfer to Long Haul where he can inflict more misery and damage.
Anyone inflicting misery and damage should be advised that in a recent court case, a doctor who was subjected to this, won her case and was awarded 3 million in damages !
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Old 11th Dec 2023, 13:28
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Is BA really as bad as everyone seems to say? I have another interview with them coming up, and i am so unsure about whether to jump ship from my current UK short haul, well paid, hardly work in the winter position.... My biggest problem is i live so much closer to LHR and my 1.5 hour commute each day that I have to go to work is becoming a strain, especially when i think i have over 30 years left of it. I love where I am right now, but location is so important... are there any truly honest good stories around here? Is the 320 fleet more manageable with a young family?
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Old 11th Dec 2023, 14:12
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Originally Posted by Selcal86
Is BA really as bad as everyone seems to say? I have another interview with them coming up, and i am so unsure about whether to jump ship from my current UK short haul, well paid, hardly work in the winter position.... My biggest problem is i live so much closer to LHR and my 1.5 hour commute each day that I have to go to work is becoming a strain, especially when i think i have over 30 years left of it. I love where I am right now, but location is so important... are there any truly honest good stories around here? Is the 320 fleet more manageable with a young family?
Overall itís a pretty good place to work. No where is perfect.

I work less than I did at my previous ULCC, I get paid a bit more than I did there. If you want to get your 4th bar sooner rather than later I would think staying with J2 or wherever you are might be better overall financially as if youíre a low pay point captain your being paid less than anywhere else in the UK.

Training is on a tiny footprint, but youíll be given extra time if needed. Trainers are good, really professional etc.

Work wise your rostering is up to your seniority (and I think more importantly, your ability to make the bidding system work for you)

If youíre happy where you are, can you move closer to where you are? Or much prefer living in the greater London area?
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Old 11th Dec 2023, 14:52
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Originally Posted by Potatos_69
Overall itís a pretty good place to work. No where is perfect.

I work less than I did at my previous ULCC, I get paid a bit more than I did there. If you want to get your 4th bar sooner rather than later I would think staying with J2 or wherever you are might be better overall financially as if youíre a low pay point captain your being paid less than anywhere else in the UK.

Training is on a tiny footprint, but youíll be given extra time if needed. Trainers are good, really professional etc.

Work wise your rostering is up to your seniority (and I think more importantly, your ability to make the bidding system work for you)

If youíre happy where you are, can you move closer to where you are? Or much prefer living in the greater London area?
Would agree with this . Almost everyone Iíve flown with on the A320 fleet is friendly, easy going and competent. I think some people from outside are under different impressions.

The reality Iíve found as someone new to company and fleet is folk just want to come to work, have a nice easy day (doesnít always happen at LHR..) then go back home and enjoy life.

I imagine the decision for you would be based on other things like pay etc.
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Old 11th Dec 2023, 14:58
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Originally Posted by Selcal86
Is BA really as bad as everyone seems to say? I have another interview with them coming up, and i am so unsure about whether to jump ship from my current UK short haul, well paid, hardly work in the winter position.... My biggest problem is i live so much closer to LHR and my 1.5 hour commute each day that I have to go to work is becoming a strain, especially when i think i have over 30 years left of it. I love where I am right now, but location is so important... are there any truly honest good stories around here? Is the 320 fleet more manageable with a young family?
Plenty of people live a stoneís throw from a J2 type base and then drive an hour and a half to Heathrow every time they go to work, youíre doing the opposite..!

Absolutely 100% move. BA seems to have ridiculously quick commands from looking there. And in 30 years youíll be a senior 350 captain on an awful lot more than at J2. Even the lowest pay point Heathrow short haul captains at BA likely come out on top financially vs LCCs in the UK when everything is included.
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Old 12th Dec 2023, 05:23
  #551 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Selcal86
Is BA really as bad as everyone seems to say? I have another interview with them coming up, and i am so unsure about whether to jump ship from my current UK short haul, well paid, hardly work in the winter position.... My biggest problem is i live so much closer to LHR and my 1.5 hour commute each day that I have to go to work is becoming a strain, especially when i think i have over 30 years left of it. I love where I am right now, but location is so important... are there any truly honest good stories around here? Is the 320 fleet more manageable with a young family?
No brainer, go to BA.

Youíll never get the same career opportunities at Jet2 as you would at BA.
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Old 12th Dec 2023, 06:58
  #552 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Selcal86
Is BA really as bad as everyone seems to say? I have another interview with them coming up, and i am so unsure about whether to jump ship from my current UK short haul, well paid, hardly work in the winter position.... My biggest problem is i live so much closer to LHR and my 1.5 hour commute each day that I have to go to work is becoming a strain, especially when i think i have over 30 years left of it. I love where I am right now, but location is so important... are there any truly honest good stories around here? Is the 320 fleet more manageable with a young family?

My opinion might help as I did BA (10yrs) to big holiday airline.
People seem to focus on the cash at the end of the pay scales. It does sound wonderful that maybe in 30 years (assuming the world is as secure as it is now Ö.) you could be on £200,000 or whatever the scales are now. But in a LCC you will get the money sooner when it counts , for the kids school fees, investing blah Ö.
BA is no doubt a good airline , but it definitely has its downsides. Like everywhere might I add.
the things I didnít like was how corporate the Company felt , you really are in a huge machine .I dont think I ever flew with the same guy twice (maybe rarely) . Also the management is just something else Ö.


Look at the end of the day itís about what is easier for you , donít get blinded by flying for the flag carrier as you will be disappointed. Itís just another airline.

if itís closer to your home then absolutely go for it!
At the end of the day family is more important.



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Old 12th Dec 2023, 08:27
  #553 (permalink)  
 
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I conducted a straw poll on my colleagues and the question was ĎWhat do you want and expect from a Trainerí?
90% said Ď Patienceí the rest were Ď Confidence building and Encouragementí
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Old 12th Dec 2023, 21:49
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Originally Posted by VariablePitchP
Plenty of people live a stoneís throw from a J2 type base and then drive an hour and a half to Heathrow every time they go to work, youíre doing the opposite..!

Absolutely 100% move. BA seems to have ridiculously quick commands from looking there. And in 30 years youíll be a senior 350 captain on an awful lot more than at J2. Even the lowest pay point Heathrow short haul captains at BA likely come out on top financially vs LCCs in the UK when everything is included.
Rediculously quick only in euroflyer. That could be joining or upgrading in a year. However it is the worst pay and conditions in the UK for an A320 equivalent job on the left or right seat.

LHR short haul FO life is pretty relaxed and generally better paid than EZY or WUK (not sure about J2 atm) and command is fairly fast. But being a pay point 2-10 captain would put you earning less than a year 1 ezy or j2 or even wizz captain for well, close to 10 years. And youíll be the bottom of roster seniority for god knows how many years. Weekends off wonít exist as a choice outside of leave and golden day usage or tactical reserve for probably a decade as anyone in the company before you moving over will just keep your seniority on the fleet stationary. Also we spend far more time dealing with Heathrow than any sane and person wants to spend 🤣

Long haul straight away would change things as itís a good pay bump compared to short haul and youíll be working less. But itís still 18-22 years for a long haul command. Youíll certainly get there in the end and itíll be amazing.

Do a spreadsheet comparing the pay points of a planned BA career path compared to staying at your company as you are, with expected command upgrade times and do a calculation on your earnings over your planned working life. Itís not as clear cut money wise as it used to be with PP34 in effect especially if youíre over 30 and wonít have as much time at the top compared to someone joining at 20-25.

Ancilliary benefits are definitely hard to beat. Staff travel is fabulous. Pension is great! If you can master JSS, or just be happy to be flexible with work your rostering can be great (much harder though as a junior with kids wanting weekends off your only option for some guaranteed time will be part time)
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Old 13th Dec 2023, 13:25
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Originally Posted by Potatos_69
Rediculously quick only in euroflyer. That could be joining or upgrading in a year. However it is the worst pay and conditions in the UK for an A320 equivalent job on the left or right seat.
What are those pay and conditions?
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Old 13th Dec 2023, 16:59
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Originally Posted by clarkeysntfc
What are those pay and conditions?
Most of what you need is here, BAís site and PJN etc.
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Old 14th Dec 2023, 10:22
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Not quite Potatos_69,

Re: junior SH Captains at LHR not getting weekends off for years - everyone is now guaranteed 2 x weekend days off (may be separate) a month (this reduces if you have leave etc. which already give you some weekend downtime that month). This is a big change, essentially promised since 2016 ish (‘JSS will preserve the gradient’ etc.).

Time will tell if this recent change reduces general roster satisfaction a little but the key seems to be how clever/realistic you are at bidding. In the future you will be able to waive the weekends off thing too which should bump up general satisfaction a little again.

Junior with kids means you can also use parental leave (unpaid obviously) to create firebreaks in the roster/get some more weekend time off (alongside the above 2 days). Part-time an option too as touched on.

Agree with many of your other points.

ATB.
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Old 14th Dec 2023, 11:25
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Originally Posted by Potatos_69
Rediculously quick only in euroflyer. That could be joining or upgrading in a year. However it is the worst pay and conditions in the UK for an A320 equivalent job on the left or right seat.

LHR short haul FO life is pretty relaxed and generally better paid than EZY or WUK (not sure about J2 atm) and command is fairly fast. But being a pay point 2-10 captain would put you earning less than a year 1 ezy or j2 or even wizz captain for well, close to 10 years. And youíll be the bottom of roster seniority for god knows how many years. Weekends off wonít exist as a choice outside of leave and golden day usage or tactical reserve for probably a decade as anyone in the company before you moving over will just keep your seniority on the fleet stationary. Also we spend far more time dealing with Heathrow than any sane and person wants to spend 🤣

Long haul straight away would change things as itís a good pay bump compared to short haul and youíll be working less. But itís still 18-22 years for a long haul command. Youíll certainly get there in the end and itíll be amazing.

Do a spreadsheet comparing the pay points of a planned BA career path compared to staying at your company as you are, with expected command upgrade times and do a calculation on your earnings over your planned working life. Itís not as clear cut money wise as it used to be with PP34 in effect especially if youíre over 30 and wonít have as much time at the top compared to someone joining at 20-25.

Ancilliary benefits are definitely hard to beat. Staff travel is fabulous. Pension is great! If you can master JSS, or just be happy to be flexible with work your rostering can be great (much harder though as a junior with kids wanting weekends off your only option for some guaranteed time will be part time)
Agree pay at Euroflyer is below par in both seats.

Are you sure you checked the spreadsheet on years 2-10 LHS SH correctly? Add the TAFB disregarding the pension.

As a year 1 FO I have been pulling in no less than £4.8k after tax paying 6% pension. I might pick up a trip or 2 at NCP if a trip takes my fancy but donít go nuts. Yes JSS is a learning curve. I bid the same every month and sometimes itís given me the opposite of what I bid for. However I always manage to move things around in IOT/EOT plus swapping to get back to what I wanted.
Yes you will get command at the airlines you mention quicker if you want but donít forget the numbers as an FO.
Ok agree low seniority LHS doesnít seem the best in terms of bidding and yes LHR can be painful. Compared to the airlines you mention I found SH to be much better on my body clock compared to previous. Night curfew is a god send really. Landing at 2/3/4am after a 10-12 hour day is bloody tough on you on days 3/4/5 etc.
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Old 14th Dec 2023, 20:12
  #559 (permalink)  
 
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Hi all, I need some info about capacity test day, I would appreciate it if you could guide me about it. What should I expect on that day? Will there be a group and hr interview on the same day or just the capacity test? According to the documents provided, I think it is going to be on the same day however, if I recall correctly, I read in some posts that they are on the different day.
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Old 15th Dec 2023, 12:11
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Hello,

Any advice on the interview process would be much appreciated.

Thanks
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