British Airways Direct Entry Pilot
Joined: Oct 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 332
Likes: 75
From: Oxford
Well, after experiencing a real “ arrival “ at LHR yesterday morning, 777 ex BGI, some sharper training seems necessary !
Why don't some of these “ names etc. “ get the fact that trainers are there to get their candidates to the highest possible level. That is what they are paid to do , not intimidate and try an humiliate people. Totally counterproductive for them and the company.
As an ex RAF standards QFI and training captain I just don’t understand their attitude.
Why don't some of these “ names etc. “ get the fact that trainers are there to get their candidates to the highest possible level. That is what they are paid to do , not intimidate and try an humiliate people. Totally counterproductive for them and the company.
As an ex RAF standards QFI and training captain I just don’t understand their attitude.
Even the best of us occasionally bury one
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 593
Likes: 105
From: London
…..and as a spamcan driver you may not be aware that these big jets have a rad. alt to advise start of the flare height. (Eg 50 feet plus 2 seconds for the 76, plus 3 for the 75 IIRC correctly) and the 320 even tells you when to close the throttles ! ( OK thrust levers !)
Last edited by RetiredBA/BY; 5th December 2023 at 19:12.
Joined: Oct 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 332
Likes: 75
From: Oxford
Cant recall one as bad as that, and I have a LOT of time, now retired, on several big jets going from the Valiant to the 767 !
…..and as a spamcan driver you may not be aware that these big jets have a rad. alt to advise start of the flare height. (Eg 50 feet plus 2 seconds for the 76, plus 3 for the 75 IIRC correctly) and the 320 even tells you when to close the throttles ! ( OK thrust levers !)
…..and as a spamcan driver you may not be aware that these big jets have a rad. alt to advise start of the flare height. (Eg 50 feet plus 2 seconds for the 76, plus 3 for the 75 IIRC correctly) and the 320 even tells you when to close the throttles ! ( OK thrust levers !)
Which is why wouldn't question the competency of a pilot based on a single landing especially, when I was sat in the back and had no idea what happened.
I do however completely agree with you about the level of the students being a reflection of their trainers.
Anyway enough thread drift and willy waving from me
Last edited by SpamCanDriver; 6th December 2023 at 01:30.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 370
Likes: 176
From: The sky
Just to set the balance straight I have never observed “brutal” training at BA. It has always been constructive, standards are high (as they are elsewhere).
Don’t let people with an axe to grind influence your decision!
LD
Don’t let people with an axe to grind influence your decision!
LD
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 593
Likes: 105
From: London
Usually v good, very occasionally awful.
That was quite a few years ago, Hopefully, everything is better now !
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 179
Likes: 25
From: uk
Not so Sir,there are new hitmen who brief the stand in to make deliberate mistakes.
The previous mentioned ‘ Names’ include a Mid Eastern sounding name who employs these tactics and kicks the seat when he wishes to employ that tactic.
IMHO as a previous BTC, and STC,he should be reminded of his primary role as a TRAINER not a destructive force.
The Unions should ensure this ‘ Unsavoury Character’ not my words but a recipient of his recent behaviour is not considered for a Trainer Transfer to Long Haul where he can inflict more misery and damage.
The previous mentioned ‘ Names’ include a Mid Eastern sounding name who employs these tactics and kicks the seat when he wishes to employ that tactic.
IMHO as a previous BTC, and STC,he should be reminded of his primary role as a TRAINER not a destructive force.
The Unions should ensure this ‘ Unsavoury Character’ not my words but a recipient of his recent behaviour is not considered for a Trainer Transfer to Long Haul where he can inflict more misery and damage.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 204
Likes: 13
From: UK
Re:BA I’m more than happy to speak the truth (as an insider) but whoever is putting out the rumours about training cultures here, is talking nonsense. BA training culture is the last part of our brand that I remain proud of.
Anyone who says otherwise is usually a part of the problem and typically if they are complaining as a new entrant, it is MOST likely they received blunt honesty from their trainers because they had very poor team skills.
However, if you are the sort who struggles in the simulator, but has a healthy sense of persecution, then I guess you’ll start this type of rumour. The psychology of accepting your mistakes and working on them is very much part of the BA training culture. Self improvement. Those who describe it otherwise, are probably the type of pilot who feel their self improvement is not necessary.
Anyone who says otherwise is usually a part of the problem and typically if they are complaining as a new entrant, it is MOST likely they received blunt honesty from their trainers because they had very poor team skills.
However, if you are the sort who struggles in the simulator, but has a healthy sense of persecution, then I guess you’ll start this type of rumour. The psychology of accepting your mistakes and working on them is very much part of the BA training culture. Self improvement. Those who describe it otherwise, are probably the type of pilot who feel their self improvement is not necessary.
Joined: Feb 2013
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 154
Likes: 7
From: London
Re:BA I’m more than happy to speak the truth (as an insider) but whoever is putting out the rumours about training cultures here, is talking nonsense. BA training culture is the last part of our brand that I remain proud of.
Anyone who says otherwise is usually a part of the problem and typically if they are complaining as a new entrant, it is MOST likely they received blunt honesty from their trainers because they had very poor team skills.
However, if you are the sort who struggles in the simulator, but has a healthy sense of persecution, then I guess you’ll start this type of rumour. The psychology of accepting your mistakes and working on them is very much part of the BA training culture. Self improvement. Those who describe it otherwise, are probably the type of pilot who feel their self improvement is not necessary.
Anyone who says otherwise is usually a part of the problem and typically if they are complaining as a new entrant, it is MOST likely they received blunt honesty from their trainers because they had very poor team skills.
However, if you are the sort who struggles in the simulator, but has a healthy sense of persecution, then I guess you’ll start this type of rumour. The psychology of accepting your mistakes and working on them is very much part of the BA training culture. Self improvement. Those who describe it otherwise, are probably the type of pilot who feel their self improvement is not necessary.
On the few occasions where the sim becomes a challenge, it is usually due to the poor CRM of the person next to you rather than the person in the back. Good CRM is a subtle business and requires a degree of emotional intelligence which a small minority of our colleagues lack. It is rare to experience this from a trainer however - I can perhaps think of 2 or 3 names from my entire time in BA. The other point to remember is that such is the size of the company, if you do have a clash of personalities with someone it will likely be somewhere between 5 years and never before you see them again.
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 171
Likes: 31
From: European riviera
I’ve just come through the BA training system having completed my A320 TR, and I’m now flying the line. I found all the trainers I encountered to be professional, supportive and actually quite nice people. I was given constructive and balanced feedback so was happy with that side of things.
It’s not perfect, I think they could make some improvements - but that’s less about the trainers and more to do with the course footprint (imho).
It’s not perfect, I think they could make some improvements - but that’s less about the trainers and more to do with the course footprint (imho).
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 593
Likes: 105
From: London
Not so Sir,there are new hitmen who brief the stand in to make deliberate mistakes.
The previous mentioned ‘ Names’ include a Mid Eastern sounding name who employs these tactics and kicks the seat when he wishes to employ that tactic.
IMHO as a previous BTC, and STC,he should be reminded of his primary role as a TRAINER not a destructive force.
The Unions should ensure this ‘ Unsavoury Character’ not my words but a recipient of his recent behaviour is not considered for a Trainer Transfer to Long Haul where he can inflict more misery and damage.
The previous mentioned ‘ Names’ include a Mid Eastern sounding name who employs these tactics and kicks the seat when he wishes to employ that tactic.
IMHO as a previous BTC, and STC,he should be reminded of his primary role as a TRAINER not a destructive force.
The Unions should ensure this ‘ Unsavoury Character’ not my words but a recipient of his recent behaviour is not considered for a Trainer Transfer to Long Haul where he can inflict more misery and damage.
He messed me about in a totally unacceptable way and in my view was most unprofessional if not downright rude.
He said my performance was not good enough and would have to be reflown.
I was furious and told him his shortcomings, politely but firmly. .
Expecting a p45 when the management captain invited me for a “chat”in his TBA office, I was told it was about time someone told him, he had failed the “would be” training captain and agreed with my comments. I dont think he pursued a training career, and fortunately I never encountered him on the line. !It would have been even worse than flying with captain G !
Re flying the trip a week later with a very pleasant TC , all went very well and I never encountered such nonsense again , at least not in BA! At an interview with Norman Todd he told me he had been through my training file I suspect that incident was never written up and certainly not held against me. Anyone inflicting pain and damage, or even unpleasantness, or having created a reputation as an unsavoury character, in training simply does not understand the objectives of the job , so perhaps its time to discuss such problems with BALPA or request a meeting with James Basnett, once head boy at my daughters school, Repton, and was introduced to flying with flight deck trip on a 737 with my best mate being the Captain on the flight !
Coffee finished !
Last edited by RetiredBA/BY; 7th December 2023 at 10:00.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,092
Likes: 47
Whose ?
...
I am a bit confused about whether we are discussing the current (alleged) shortcomings of the flight training departments (and their sky-god skills) of BA or BA Euroflyer.
BA Euroflyer at Gatwick has achieved its own AOC and now seems to have its own training department. However much of the line pilot and trainer staffing seems to have been brought over (or pushed) from BA at Heathrow.
I presume Ph-4's suggestion that the FTM and his deputy are both LTS refers to Euroflyer.
What is going on ? - "I think we should be told" as they say in PI.
LFH
I am a bit confused about whether we are discussing the current (alleged) shortcomings of the flight training departments (and their sky-god skills) of BA or BA Euroflyer.
BA Euroflyer at Gatwick has achieved its own AOC and now seems to have its own training department. However much of the line pilot and trainer staffing seems to have been brought over (or pushed) from BA at Heathrow.
I presume Ph-4's suggestion that the FTM and his deputy are both LTS refers to Euroflyer.
What is going on ? - "I think we should be told" as they say in PI.
LFH
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 593
Likes: 105
From: London
Not so Sir,there are new hitmen who brief the stand in to make deliberate mistakes.
The previous mentioned ‘ Names’ include a Mid Eastern sounding name who employs these tactics and kicks the seat when he wishes to employ that tactic.
IMHO as a previous BTC, and STC,he should be reminded of his primary role as a TRAINER not a destructive force.
The Unions should ensure this ‘ Unsavoury Character’ not my words but a recipient of his recent behaviour is not considered for a Trainer Transfer to Long Haul where he can inflict more misery and damage.
The previous mentioned ‘ Names’ include a Mid Eastern sounding name who employs these tactics and kicks the seat when he wishes to employ that tactic.
IMHO as a previous BTC, and STC,he should be reminded of his primary role as a TRAINER not a destructive force.
The Unions should ensure this ‘ Unsavoury Character’ not my words but a recipient of his recent behaviour is not considered for a Trainer Transfer to Long Haul where he can inflict more misery and damage.
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: Surrey
Is BA really as bad as everyone seems to say? I have another interview with them coming up, and i am so unsure about whether to jump ship from my current UK short haul, well paid, hardly work in the winter position.... My biggest problem is i live so much closer to LHR and my 1.5 hour commute each day that I have to go to work is becoming a strain, especially when i think i have over 30 years left of it. I love where I am right now, but location is so important... are there any truly honest good stories around here? Is the 320 fleet more manageable with a young family?
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 112
Likes: 7
From: Neverland
Is BA really as bad as everyone seems to say? I have another interview with them coming up, and i am so unsure about whether to jump ship from my current UK short haul, well paid, hardly work in the winter position.... My biggest problem is i live so much closer to LHR and my 1.5 hour commute each day that I have to go to work is becoming a strain, especially when i think i have over 30 years left of it. I love where I am right now, but location is so important... are there any truly honest good stories around here? Is the 320 fleet more manageable with a young family?
I work less than I did at my previous ULCC, I get paid a bit more than I did there. If you want to get your 4th bar sooner rather than later I would think staying with J2 or wherever you are might be better overall financially as if you’re a low pay point captain your being paid less than anywhere else in the UK.
Training is on a tiny footprint, but you’ll be given extra time if needed. Trainers are good, really professional etc.
Work wise your rostering is up to your seniority (and I think more importantly, your ability to make the bidding system work for you)
If you’re happy where you are, can you move closer to where you are? Or much prefer living in the greater London area?
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 171
Likes: 31
From: European riviera
Overall it’s a pretty good place to work. No where is perfect.
I work less than I did at my previous ULCC, I get paid a bit more than I did there. If you want to get your 4th bar sooner rather than later I would think staying with J2 or wherever you are might be better overall financially as if you’re a low pay point captain your being paid less than anywhere else in the UK.
Training is on a tiny footprint, but you’ll be given extra time if needed. Trainers are good, really professional etc.
Work wise your rostering is up to your seniority (and I think more importantly, your ability to make the bidding system work for you)
If you’re happy where you are, can you move closer to where you are? Or much prefer living in the greater London area?
I work less than I did at my previous ULCC, I get paid a bit more than I did there. If you want to get your 4th bar sooner rather than later I would think staying with J2 or wherever you are might be better overall financially as if you’re a low pay point captain your being paid less than anywhere else in the UK.
Training is on a tiny footprint, but you’ll be given extra time if needed. Trainers are good, really professional etc.
Work wise your rostering is up to your seniority (and I think more importantly, your ability to make the bidding system work for you)
If you’re happy where you are, can you move closer to where you are? Or much prefer living in the greater London area?
The reality I’ve found as someone new to company and fleet is folk just want to come to work, have a nice easy day (doesn’t always happen at LHR..) then go back home and enjoy life.
I imagine the decision for you would be based on other things like pay etc.
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 588
Likes: 60
From: FLSomething
Is BA really as bad as everyone seems to say? I have another interview with them coming up, and i am so unsure about whether to jump ship from my current UK short haul, well paid, hardly work in the winter position.... My biggest problem is i live so much closer to LHR and my 1.5 hour commute each day that I have to go to work is becoming a strain, especially when i think i have over 30 years left of it. I love where I am right now, but location is so important... are there any truly honest good stories around here? Is the 320 fleet more manageable with a young family?
Absolutely 100% move. BA seems to have ridiculously quick commands from looking there. And in 30 years you’ll be a senior 350 captain on an awful lot more than at J2. Even the lowest pay point Heathrow short haul captains at BA likely come out on top financially vs LCCs in the UK when everything is included.
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 659
Likes: 10
From: The EU
Is BA really as bad as everyone seems to say? I have another interview with them coming up, and i am so unsure about whether to jump ship from my current UK short haul, well paid, hardly work in the winter position.... My biggest problem is i live so much closer to LHR and my 1.5 hour commute each day that I have to go to work is becoming a strain, especially when i think i have over 30 years left of it. I love where I am right now, but location is so important... are there any truly honest good stories around here? Is the 320 fleet more manageable with a young family?
You’ll never get the same career opportunities at Jet2 as you would at BA.
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 47
Likes: 1
From: London
Is BA really as bad as everyone seems to say? I have another interview with them coming up, and i am so unsure about whether to jump ship from my current UK short haul, well paid, hardly work in the winter position.... My biggest problem is i live so much closer to LHR and my 1.5 hour commute each day that I have to go to work is becoming a strain, especially when i think i have over 30 years left of it. I love where I am right now, but location is so important... are there any truly honest good stories around here? Is the 320 fleet more manageable with a young family?
My opinion might help as I did BA (10yrs) to big holiday airline.
People seem to focus on the cash at the end of the pay scales. It does sound wonderful that maybe in 30 years (assuming the world is as secure as it is now ….) you could be on £200,000 or whatever the scales are now. But in a LCC you will get the money sooner when it counts , for the kids school fees, investing blah ….
BA is no doubt a good airline , but it definitely has its downsides. Like everywhere might I add.
the things I didn’t like was how corporate the Company felt , you really are in a huge machine .I dont think I ever flew with the same guy twice (maybe rarely) . Also the management is just something else ….
Look at the end of the day it’s about what is easier for you , don’t get blinded by flying for the flag carrier as you will be disappointed. It’s just another airline.
if it’s closer to your home then absolutely go for it!
At the end of the day family is more important.