UK ATPL to EASA - moving on
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UK ATPL to EASA - moving on
We are getting some progress. EASA now appear to recognise historic ATPL theory passes for current UK CPL IR and ATPL holders for EASA ATPL issue (note: not for CPL). This from the EASA aircrew regulation & standardisation team themselves, at the email [email protected]:
Proof of compliance with Part-FCL requirements obtained under the oversight of the UK CAA before 1 January 2021 (e.g. completed theoretical knowledge examinations, skill tests) may be accepted by a competent authority of an EASA Member States for the issuance of a Part-FCL licence in that Member State, provided that such proof of compliance is still valid (in accordance with the applicable requirements of Part-FCL, e.g. the validity of theoretical knowledge examinations) and all required documents and records can be made available to the competent authority to which the application is made.[/color][color=#2980b9]The information provided by the previous points does not mean that a Part-FCL license issued before 1 January 2021 by the UK CAA can still be simply transferred to an EASA Member State, but only that EASA Member States may, for the purpose of issuing Part-FCL licenses or ratings, continue to accept proof of compliance with Part-FCL requirements (e.g. theoretical knowledge examinations, skill tests) which were obtained before 1 January 2021 under the oversight of the UK CAA.
The validity of completed theoretical knowledge examinations is regulated in point FCL.025 of Annex I (Part-FCL) to Regulation (EU) No 1178/2011. Particularly, the ATPL theoretical knowledge examination is valid and acceptable for the issuance of an ATPL by a Member State for a time period of 7 years, counted from the last day of validity of a Part-FCL instrument rating. In the case of a licence issued in the UK under Part-FCL before 1 January 2021, this day would be the 31 December 2020 (after that day, the IR is no longer deemed to be a Part-FCL instrument rating).
A skill test can be accepted for the issuance of a licence only within a time period of 6 months (point FCL.015(f) of Annex I (Part-FCL) to Regulation (EU) No 1178/2011).
For a detailed assessment of your particular case and any further information, please contact the competent authority of the EASA Member State where you wish to apply for a (validation or conversion of your UK licence into) a Part-FCL licence.
Proof of compliance with Part-FCL requirements obtained under the oversight of the UK CAA before 1 January 2021 (e.g. completed theoretical knowledge examinations, skill tests) may be accepted by a competent authority of an EASA Member States for the issuance of a Part-FCL licence in that Member State, provided that such proof of compliance is still valid (in accordance with the applicable requirements of Part-FCL, e.g. the validity of theoretical knowledge examinations) and all required documents and records can be made available to the competent authority to which the application is made.[/color][color=#2980b9]The information provided by the previous points does not mean that a Part-FCL license issued before 1 January 2021 by the UK CAA can still be simply transferred to an EASA Member State, but only that EASA Member States may, for the purpose of issuing Part-FCL licenses or ratings, continue to accept proof of compliance with Part-FCL requirements (e.g. theoretical knowledge examinations, skill tests) which were obtained before 1 January 2021 under the oversight of the UK CAA.
The validity of completed theoretical knowledge examinations is regulated in point FCL.025 of Annex I (Part-FCL) to Regulation (EU) No 1178/2011. Particularly, the ATPL theoretical knowledge examination is valid and acceptable for the issuance of an ATPL by a Member State for a time period of 7 years, counted from the last day of validity of a Part-FCL instrument rating. In the case of a licence issued in the UK under Part-FCL before 1 January 2021, this day would be the 31 December 2020 (after that day, the IR is no longer deemed to be a Part-FCL instrument rating).
A skill test can be accepted for the issuance of a licence only within a time period of 6 months (point FCL.015(f) of Annex I (Part-FCL) to Regulation (EU) No 1178/2011).
For a detailed assessment of your particular case and any further information, please contact the competent authority of the EASA Member State where you wish to apply for a (validation or conversion of your UK licence into) a Part-FCL licence.
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Thanks for the info Alex.
I have been e mailing a few of the NAA's on the same point. The only thing that worried me was people like myself that had done their ATPL exams pre EASA ( 1996 ) in my case. But I think that Article 9 should mean that UK CAA are valid whenever they were taken as they were deemed suitable for the issue of an EASA ATPL. Then you just have to abide by FCL 0.25 for the seven years from last EASA IR
Would you think that's a fair assessment ?From COMMISSION REGULATION (EU) No 1178/2011
Article 9 - Credit for training commenced prior to the application of this Regulation
Regulation (EU) 2019/1747
1. In respect of issuing Part-FCL licences in accordance with Annex I, training commenced prior to the application of this Regulation in accordance with the JARs and procedures, under the regulatory oversight of a Member State recommended for mutual recognition within the Joint Aviation Authorities’ system in relation to the relevant JARs, shall be given full credit provided that the training and testing were completed by 8 April 2016 at the latest and a Part-FCL licence is issued by 1 April 2020 at the latest.
2. Training commenced prior to the application of this Regulation in accordance with Annex 1 to the Chicago Convention shall be given credit for the purposes of issuing Part-FCL licences on the basis of a credit report established by the Member State in consultation with the Agency.
3. The credit report shall describe the scope of the training, indicate for which requirements of Part-FCL licences credit is given and, if applicable, which requirements applicants need to comply with in order to be issued with Part-FCL licences. It shall include copies of all documents necessary to demonstrate the scope of the training and of the national regulations and procedures in accordance with which the training was commenced.
I have been e mailing a few of the NAA's on the same point. The only thing that worried me was people like myself that had done their ATPL exams pre EASA ( 1996 ) in my case. But I think that Article 9 should mean that UK CAA are valid whenever they were taken as they were deemed suitable for the issue of an EASA ATPL. Then you just have to abide by FCL 0.25 for the seven years from last EASA IR
Would you think that's a fair assessment ?From COMMISSION REGULATION (EU) No 1178/2011
Article 9 - Credit for training commenced prior to the application of this Regulation
Regulation (EU) 2019/1747
1. In respect of issuing Part-FCL licences in accordance with Annex I, training commenced prior to the application of this Regulation in accordance with the JARs and procedures, under the regulatory oversight of a Member State recommended for mutual recognition within the Joint Aviation Authorities’ system in relation to the relevant JARs, shall be given full credit provided that the training and testing were completed by 8 April 2016 at the latest and a Part-FCL licence is issued by 1 April 2020 at the latest.
2. Training commenced prior to the application of this Regulation in accordance with Annex 1 to the Chicago Convention shall be given credit for the purposes of issuing Part-FCL licences on the basis of a credit report established by the Member State in consultation with the Agency.
3. The credit report shall describe the scope of the training, indicate for which requirements of Part-FCL licences credit is given and, if applicable, which requirements applicants need to comply with in order to be issued with Part-FCL licences. It shall include copies of all documents necessary to demonstrate the scope of the training and of the national regulations and procedures in accordance with which the training was commenced.
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Personally, yes, I don't think a distinction will be made. What seems to be happening is that there was an early and politically-motivated instruction from the EU to EASA not to assist the UK while Brexit was being negotiated. The initial blanket unhelpfulness is now being reviewed by both EASA and the Member States with two opposite points of view forming. One is a hardline 'you voted for it' attitude, another is a more pragmatic view that recognises the issues firstly on a more human level and secondly from a legal point of view. FLC.025 referred to above, for instance, is the law and EU States must apply it, no opt-out available.
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Thanks for the update alex.
Any words at all on whether any sensible conversion route is being talked about for those with uk caa licences?
I completed my easa exams (under uk caa) last year, and had my uk caa cpl/ir issued this year. I’m considering obtaining an easa cpl/ir, so i never have to do those dreaded atpls again, and on the off chance that a easa licence may come in handy one day.
anyone else looked into it at all? Or is it likely to be prohibitively expensive?
Thanks in advance.
Any words at all on whether any sensible conversion route is being talked about for those with uk caa licences?
I completed my easa exams (under uk caa) last year, and had my uk caa cpl/ir issued this year. I’m considering obtaining an easa cpl/ir, so i never have to do those dreaded atpls again, and on the off chance that a easa licence may come in handy one day.
anyone else looked into it at all? Or is it likely to be prohibitively expensive?
Thanks in advance.
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I’m not on Twitter but a friend of mine is. He said apparently this thread on Twitter is picking up a lot of interest especially from an ITV journalist who may investigate further regarding the CAA EASA license issue. Might be worth a look.
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Validation
I have another question on this subject and looking for some help as struggling to make sense of the regulations. Background: I had a UK issued EASA ATPL before brexit and the last time I renewed the IR on it was 2015. I have since renewed my IR in the UK last month and now have a UK only ATPL. I have the right to live and work in both the UK and Europe and I don't need an EASA ATPL right now, but might need it again in later life. Anyway I don't want to do those dreaded exams ever again so my question is if I nip over to Europe and do an EASA/IR test validated on the basis of my valid UK ATPL /medical, will that reset my 7 year clock for my EASA exams even though I will not have an actual EASA ATPL to record this against? I'm not talking about SOLI out just now, purely validation to keep my exams from expiring and buying some time. I know the validation is only for 1 year but not sure how the 7 year time for IR will be affected.
Thanks in advance. A
Thanks in advance. A
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Has anyone actually perused converting their UK CAA ATPL to EASA ATPL using the TK ATPL exam credit/exemption that Alex has mentioned above?
There are two aeromedical AEMC centres doing initial EASA Class 1 medicals in the UK, but does anyone have any experience organising the appropriate licence skills test? Transport Malta and AustroControl both talk about examiner designation by the authority, is that applicable in this case? Anyone familiar with an organisation in the UK or Europe that has experience with this (specifically for the a320) preferably with Transport Malta or AustroControl TRE’s? Or any other hoops that you need to jump through for the conversion.
Thanks in advance
There are two aeromedical AEMC centres doing initial EASA Class 1 medicals in the UK, but does anyone have any experience organising the appropriate licence skills test? Transport Malta and AustroControl both talk about examiner designation by the authority, is that applicable in this case? Anyone familiar with an organisation in the UK or Europe that has experience with this (specifically for the a320) preferably with Transport Malta or AustroControl TRE’s? Or any other hoops that you need to jump through for the conversion.
Thanks in advance
Pappaechonovember,
I’m trying to pursue the same thing, but as a CPL/IR holder (MEP not A320) I’ve made enquiries with some flying schools. I suspect our training requirements will be different if you’re an ATPL holder.
However, I’m trying to get an EASA licence using my CAA EASA exam passes pre 1st Jan 21.
very interested to hear who can provide EASA class 1 initial in the UK, as i will need to obtain one.
I’m trying to pursue the same thing, but as a CPL/IR holder (MEP not A320) I’ve made enquiries with some flying schools. I suspect our training requirements will be different if you’re an ATPL holder.
However, I’m trying to get an EASA licence using my CAA EASA exam passes pre 1st Jan 21.
very interested to hear who can provide EASA class 1 initial in the UK, as i will need to obtain one.
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From what I understand…
https://www.aeromedicalconsulting.co.uk
Aeromedical in BHX do AustroControl class 1 initial, but it’s pricey.
Centreline Aviation Medical Services ? Keeping aviation health on the straight and level
Centerline in central London do AustroControl and Transport Malta initial class 1, slightly cheaper.
I’ll be relying on EASA ATPL TK exams from a while back too. The conversion process seem to need validation from the UK CAA towards the end of the process.
No one seems to specialise in this conversion route (gap in the market!) probably because it’s quite new, and most of the people that needed EASA already have SOLI’d out. This thing really needs ATO support I think because of the situation with examiner designation requirements, and signing off ELP, PBN etc etc etc.
I’m not sure how the process for CPL/IR would differ, I would imagine for a CPL/IR MEP SPA IR it should be relatively similar.
See if these help.
https://www.transport.gov.mt/PEL-67-...on-4.pdf-f6395
https://www.transport.gov.mt/PEL-80-...on-3.pdf-f6399
https://www.aeromedicalconsulting.co.uk
Aeromedical in BHX do AustroControl class 1 initial, but it’s pricey.
Centreline Aviation Medical Services ? Keeping aviation health on the straight and level
Centerline in central London do AustroControl and Transport Malta initial class 1, slightly cheaper.
I’ll be relying on EASA ATPL TK exams from a while back too. The conversion process seem to need validation from the UK CAA towards the end of the process.
No one seems to specialise in this conversion route (gap in the market!) probably because it’s quite new, and most of the people that needed EASA already have SOLI’d out. This thing really needs ATO support I think because of the situation with examiner designation requirements, and signing off ELP, PBN etc etc etc.
I’m not sure how the process for CPL/IR would differ, I would imagine for a CPL/IR MEP SPA IR it should be relatively similar.
See if these help.
https://www.transport.gov.mt/PEL-67-...on-4.pdf-f6395
https://www.transport.gov.mt/PEL-80-...on-3.pdf-f6399
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Hi All,
This all seems very messy and political but anyway.
So I am currently liaising with the Maltese CAA in an effort to convert my UK ATPL(A) to an EASA ATPL(A) (before anyone says I should have SOLI’d before January, I needed my UK licence for work and was unable to do so. I still need the UK licence and will be aiming to run both licences in parallel with each other).
Anyway, I just got off the phone with my AME and he seems to think it’s unnecessary that I would need an initial EASA medical for Malta and instead made reference to the fact that my last ‘EASA’ Medical with him in the UK (January 2020) was less than 5yrs ago so therefore I should only need a renewal with him to get my EASA medical back (he’s also approved by Malta as well as the UK). Anyone know if there’s any truth in this?
Also, I hold a ‘TRI B747 400’ rating, which I need transferring onto my eventual Maltese EASA licence, does anyone know if this will transfer based solely on the UK license verification or can I expect problems? (Obviously the Maltese want me to ‘Complete a skill test, the type or class rating revalidation of Part-FCL relevant to the privileges of the licence held.’ but this is an ATPL skills tests - not a TRI assessment of competence, so therefore I was a bit worried there might be issues).
This all seems very messy and political but anyway.
So I am currently liaising with the Maltese CAA in an effort to convert my UK ATPL(A) to an EASA ATPL(A) (before anyone says I should have SOLI’d before January, I needed my UK licence for work and was unable to do so. I still need the UK licence and will be aiming to run both licences in parallel with each other).
Anyway, I just got off the phone with my AME and he seems to think it’s unnecessary that I would need an initial EASA medical for Malta and instead made reference to the fact that my last ‘EASA’ Medical with him in the UK (January 2020) was less than 5yrs ago so therefore I should only need a renewal with him to get my EASA medical back (he’s also approved by Malta as well as the UK). Anyone know if there’s any truth in this?
Also, I hold a ‘TRI B747 400’ rating, which I need transferring onto my eventual Maltese EASA licence, does anyone know if this will transfer based solely on the UK license verification or can I expect problems? (Obviously the Maltese want me to ‘Complete a skill test, the type or class rating revalidation of Part-FCL relevant to the privileges of the licence held.’ but this is an ATPL skills tests - not a TRI assessment of competence, so therefore I was a bit worried there might be issues).
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CAA to....?
To anyone who has commenced this process with any inclination of a positive outcome.
What is the process, I current have a 'frozen' ATPL with valid UK medical, SEP, MEP, MEIR in addition to FT 90% ATPL theory passes sat in 2019, AUPRT and MCCJOC (All issued by the UK/CAA)
I spoke to the CAA on 07.07.2021 and was advised to try and "verify" my licence by an EASA authority which may give me the same privileges as someone holding an EASA licence? I contacted IAA, Austro, ENAC (Italy). Two of whom seemed clueless about the concept and still awaiting a response from the Italians.
I understand converting/validating won't help with the lack of right to work in the EU but that isn't the concern right now. If someone could offer advice/guidance as to how I can commence the process and which NAA to contact it would be great.
Any constructive advice would be greatly appreciated.
What is the process, I current have a 'frozen' ATPL with valid UK medical, SEP, MEP, MEIR in addition to FT 90% ATPL theory passes sat in 2019, AUPRT and MCCJOC (All issued by the UK/CAA)
I spoke to the CAA on 07.07.2021 and was advised to try and "verify" my licence by an EASA authority which may give me the same privileges as someone holding an EASA licence? I contacted IAA, Austro, ENAC (Italy). Two of whom seemed clueless about the concept and still awaiting a response from the Italians.
I understand converting/validating won't help with the lack of right to work in the EU but that isn't the concern right now. If someone could offer advice/guidance as to how I can commence the process and which NAA to contact it would be great.
Any constructive advice would be greatly appreciated.
