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Worldwide Redundant Pilots-Smile Please

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Worldwide Redundant Pilots-Smile Please

Old 28th Aug 2020, 09:36
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Ufficio pacchi
Posts: 100
Hello.
Made redundant in the ME in june.
Before that i was flying for an UK operator, that went bust last september.
Before that, again, laid off due to company "restructuring" in a low cost outside Europe.
So, 3 times for me now. Covid killed me big time.
Lost my chances for command, obviously.
Well over 40, solid experience on the A320.
Luck, what is that?
As my friend above says, if you have a roof and food on the table, its not that bad.
Whats next for me, us? I really dont know now.
All the best to all of you.


Last edited by LorisBatacchi; 28th Aug 2020 at 10:02.
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Old 28th Aug 2020, 10:54
  #22 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Apr 2020
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You’re not in a terrible position really. You’ve weathered a similar storm before and b. You seem to have heavy experience on the only jet that I foresee will make the quickest comeback. SE Asia, ME and Far East carriers are/will soon be looking for experienced aircrews to crew their domestic flights. I see it uphill all the way from there on.
All the very best my friend. We all need Lady Luck these days more than ever before.
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Old 28th Aug 2020, 11:15
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Ufficio pacchi
Posts: 100
Thanks for the nice words mate.
Yes, in a way or another things will change.
Lets hope for the best.
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Old 28th Aug 2020, 11:40
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Anywhere
Posts: 65
The greater the fall, the bigger the bounce!

I've already seen the dreaded 'D' word and anxiety creep in to my life. I'm blessed I have a backup career, but I struggle to focus. Most of us need to resign our minds to the fact we are not going to fly till 2022/2023. I'm confident, in 2022/2023 we will see recruitment drives like we've never seen before and those with experience will be ripe for opportunities. During the 2014/2015 upturn I had 3 offers in the same week! and I wasn't even that experienced. That moment will return.

Airlines will need experience to get going again. Therefore, those pilots at the bottom of the experience scale will have to wait longer. Meanwhile, a good chunk of over 60s will simply not be interested in the job anymore (yes, you are too old for this sh*t! ).
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Old 28th Aug 2020, 13:08
  #25 (permalink)  
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More interested in how that ‘experienced’ pilot will keep himself current and interested in that potential job vacancy 1-2 years hence.
Recency and currency is once again going to be an issue if not well regulated.
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Old 28th Aug 2020, 17:32
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 426
LorisBatacchi

You haven't lost your chances for a command. That Airbus FO experience will come in very handy. Maybe not exactly where you imagined, but somewhere there will be an opportunity for an upgrade. If I understand correctly, you still have 15-20 years of working life to age 65 - and that's not little by all measures.
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Old 29th Aug 2020, 06:47
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Ufficio pacchi
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Hi mate,
yes you are right. I've got 18 full years ahead.
Sometimes i am too hard with myself, but loosing a job for 3 times its a real pain folks.
All the best and good luck to all.
Keep yourselves healthy 👍🏻

Last edited by LorisBatacchi; 29th Aug 2020 at 08:22.
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Old 29th Aug 2020, 10:46
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
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More interested in how that Ďexperiencedí pilot will keep himself current and interested in that potential job vacancy 1-2 years hence.
That is a very good point. There have been a few comments here and on other social media from LH pilots who are enjoying being in their own bed and starting to feel normal again after the jetlag has been exorcised from their bodies. If they need the money then in the intervening years they are going to have to find something to support themselves and maybe they won't want to go back to what they had before. The lure of aviation might be even less shiny if T&C's are eroded. I am seriously considering leaving the industry if I can find the right opening. I have learnt that I can survive on a lot less money and having a regular routine after so many years of not knowing what I am doing until 10 days before the next month no longer has any appeal. The pilot shortage in the US was going to be exponential over the next 10 years anyway. I think C19 might make that more acute when travel picks up as a lot of pilots in the 55-65 age bracket may just not bother.
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Old 29th Aug 2020, 12:17
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Europe
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Interesting times ahead, I think. There is a good number of pilots aged 55+ around me who are taking their pensions and calling it a day, quite often without having been made redundant. Some are concerned with the immediate situation (i.e. being in an above-average risk age group and having to go through crammed airport terminals, aeroplanes, hotels etc). Others were already tired of it and waiting for the moment to pull out and enjoy retirement. Many younger guys also looking into alternative careers. So, it might as well be that a couple of years after the mother of all crises we'll see the mother of all shortages.
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Old 29th Aug 2020, 13:37
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Well iíve had a bad back for approx 7 years, tried every treatment under the sun to no avail. Guess what, time off with covid and itís 100%, no sitting in the seat for hours on end plus the drive to work. Every cloud...
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 07:26
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Uk
Posts: 100
Best of luck folks. I’m scared what there may be to return to - with things like the $400 a month offer from rishworth / Vietnam. Simply won’t be worth going to the other side of the world when you can get the same money in your local McDonald’s .

I’m sure demand will return eventually , it’s crisis management until then
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 08:14
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Dubai, once... now London
Age: 46
Posts: 40
Agree.

Unfortunately I guess there is not much to smile for. When airlines will restart somehow to hire, there will be a huge supply excess and it does not take fancy economists to realize that oversupply will lead to ridiculous terms&conditions.
Many of us will have no recent flights over the past 2+ years and will accept anything to add a few fresh hours in the logbooks. Apparently some operators are already studying this project, and could eventually end up offering some "return to work" offers for all levels of experience, where You basically fly for free, be it as a Captain or F/O, just to get Your currency back. Multiply that for hundreds of unemployed pilots and You can easily end up covering an almost normal 2022 summer season for peanuts.
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 08:27
  #33 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by PilotLZ View Post
So, it might as well be that a couple of years after the mother of all crises we'll see the mother of all shortages.
Extremely well put indeed. I wholeheartedly endorse this viewpoint
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 08:29
  #34 (permalink)  
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Meester proach

May I gently enquire who this airline in particular may be. And what was the type of equipment and rank on which this was offered 😳
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 09:08
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Ufficio pacchi
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VN. Looking for LTC/TRI/TREs recently. All via a famous (infamous) agency.
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 10:38
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Scotland
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It takes an extraordinary level of delusion to think that Ts&Cs will ever get back towards the pre-covid norms. I predict that within three years we'll see A320/737 captains in the UK being paid in the region of £35-40k with zero benefits on temporary or part year seasonal contracts. FOs will be on a mix of pay to fly, fly for free and zero hours/ minimum wage contracts.

Airline management will continue to find new ways to reach that elusive bottom of the barrel. The mere fact that VNA are offering to pay trainers anything at all, rather than demanding that they pay for the privilege of working for them shows that there's still a way to go before the bottom is reached.
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 16:08
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Uk
Posts: 100
As stated , in what you quoted ! Are you applying ? I’m sure they’ll be a few.

Maybe if you live in VN, and have nothing to do, it’s for you.

I’m not flying for nothing, and I’m certainly not flying for nothing 1000s of miles away from home. This is not hours building when I was 19. I could fly for reduced salary , but they’ll have to be cast iron guarantees we will be back to a sensible wage when things pick up.

Unfortuntely , they’ll always be halfwits who probably will.
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 18:01
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
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Good grief guy. You need to take a very chilled pill. Who on earth is going to spend Ä70-100k to qualify for a position that is capped at that kind of money? As a Southerner, you need to earn 50k just to make ends meet and run a 3 bed house.

There's a little thing called supply vs demand and right now it's working in the favour of the slave masters, it won't be for long.
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 18:29
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 426
I completely agree. Something which I very much hope that people will find somewhat comforting is that there's a difference between a momentary condition and a sustainable one. Offering $400 per month, some Mickey Mouse hourly pay and no other benefits to a TRI who took at least 7-8 years to reach that level (more like 10 if we assume 2 years of initial training, the A320 being their first and only type and no prolonged gaps in employment) is simply not sustainable long-term. To be able to "afford" such a job, you need a secondary source of income because you will never, ever be able to cover even the absolute necessities on this income. And, if you have a strong secondary source of income, why would you be instructing in Vietnam under the full civil and criminal responsibility of a Training Captain? So, such practices will not be around for long, rest assured.
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 18:31
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Uk
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Originally Posted by MonarchOrBust View Post
Good grief guy. You need to take a very chilled pill. Who on earth is going to spend Ä70-100k to qualify for a position that is capped at that kind of money? As a Southerner, you need to earn 50k just to make ends meet and run a 3 bed house.

There's a little thing called supply vs demand and right now it's working in the favour of the slave masters, it won't be for long.

Are you referring to me ? Iím very chilled, thank you for Asking , but Iíve been in aviation a long time and am slightly cynical .

Iím not sure what your point is - people have paid that sort of money to train and ended up RHS Flybe dash8 for £30k ? Trust me , theyíll still be those who can find 100k , just so they can get a selfie with stripes on instragram.

Supply has ALWAYS exceeded demand in piloting. The only time I can think of it didnít was about 1987 ( when a chimpanzee could have got an FO slot ) and in a few recent years - but that boils down to right experience , right type rating , etc.

If you hadnít noticed even the airlines with great cash reserves are making a land grab for TCs off their crews - and you can bet they wonít be quick to reinstate them after all this unless itís written legally and binding.
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