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Worldwide Redundant Pilots-Smile Please

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Worldwide Redundant Pilots-Smile Please

Old 21st Sep 2020, 12:49
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 52
Posts: 64
Deja-vu of 9/11 in my opinion. Back then we had the same discussion. In the end those called back happily returned. Pilots want and have to work, there is no room for the luxury of hard feelings.
Sam Ting Wong is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2020, 23:32
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: hang on let me check
Posts: 592
Exactly this. Whoever thinks otherwise is deluded
bringbackthe80s is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2020, 08:58
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 470
You completely missed the point, nonetheless you call people "deluded". It's one thing when the industry is just about picking up and taking some baby steps towards recovery and that recall is your one and only chance to get back into flying reasonably soon. Then, the decision is an obvious one, no matter what feelings are involved. Preserving and continuing your career is more important than playing it offended in hopes for something better some day. But, long-term, people's loyalty towards a specific employer does get influenced by disgraceful handling of redundancies and unprofessional, opportunistic behaviour. And, even if they have nothing better to choose at the time they get called back, they will in another year or two, once recovery has advanced enough to offer better alternatives. That's when the massive movement will start.
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 09:30
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 52
Posts: 64
There is no loyality or emotional attachment in this industry. It's a constant and never ending weighing up of demand and supply, basings, roster, pay, command, etc. And then the wife decides


Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 22nd Sep 2020 at 09:42.
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 10:09
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 4 seasons hotel
Posts: 238
So true! Command decision from the real commander!
flightleader is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2020, 10:42
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 22
guy_incognito

I won’t subscribe to that BS. If they want me to continue being responsible for their multi million dollar asset and cash cow (paying pax). Subject me to bi annual sim checks, FDM hanging over my shoulder every day, for 40k a year. No. To coin a phrase, that ain’t gonna fly.
Future Rodney King is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2020, 15:11
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 470
Do you reckon that anyone has the financial means to pay to fly or work for free as a FO for what is on average 5-7 years until command? Or are we going to see destitute homeless beggars living in the gutter flying planes and washing their uniforms in the nearby river? A bit difficult to believe, even with all the relentless doom and gloom banging on 24/7.
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 16:21
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: England
Posts: 1,824
When you run the numbers, P2F is the most exaggerated thing pilots get annoyed about. It just doesn't happen on the scale people think. WizzAir have slave contracts but it's not quite P2F. SmartLynx and Avion Express are the only companies where 10-20% of new FO recruits regularly come via this path but all are gainfully employed the next year on full salary - in any case, that's Eastern Europe for you and dare I say it, (incoming missiles!) if Brexit is done properly, not something for Brits to worry about anymore when competing for jobs at home. EasyJet had a very brief affair with the concept in 08/09 with approx 15 cadets getting through and people are still harping on about it till this day. If you think I'm wrong, give me some other examples of sizeable airlines who have practiced P2F recently (small, dodgy Cambodian operators don't count).
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 19:07
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Scotland
Posts: 14
Future Rodney King

That's an entirely sensible course of action and I won't fly for those sorts of salaries either. The fact remains though that for everyone who says "no" there'll be many more who will sign whatever is put in front of them.

Do you reckon that anyone has the financial means to pay to fly or work for free as a FO for what is on average 5-7 years until command? Or are we going to see destitute homeless beggars living in the gutter flying planes and washing their uniforms in the nearby river? A bit difficult to believe, even with all the relentless doom and gloom banging on 24/7.
I think it's very likely that we will see a situation where FOs will work second and third jobs so that they can pay for their aviation "career".
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 21:17
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 470
I'm no fortune teller and I'm totally happy with any opinions different from mine - but still, the latter would be interesting to see with those flying close to 900 hours per year at a LCC. Good luck combining that even with a 20-hour-per-week, student-type job. Even if that's technically possible on a week of 5 or 6 earlies, the brave volunteer giving it a shot won't last for long.
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 21:42
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 876
Future Rodney King

Trouble is, in the global market we operate in, there are people out there, from outwith Western Europe/USA who will work for these numbers. I bet Wizz is not short of FO hopefuls for their 12600/yr offering. When the dust settles on this Covid business a whole new world awaits.
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 22:50
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 470
The hopefuls for the magenta offer mostly fall into two groups - locals for whom that would still be a decent offer given what else is otherwise available in their countries (spoiler - it makes Wizz look like paradise) and those desperate for any flying job. The former category is not much of a competition to the average Western European, American, Canadian or Australian pilot as most of those would be looking either into opportunities within their own countries or into the more stereotypically expat (and far better paid) jobs in Asia. The size of the latter category is inversely proportional to the number of opportunities out there, i.e. most of them will happily forget about the magenta brigade the very moment they see anything better suited to them. As the overall situation in the market now is about as far from good as it could be, it surely won't be pretty for a while. But in another couple of years things will likely look a lot different. Until the next big crisis which will inevitably happen.
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 00:55
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: hang on let me check
Posts: 592
There is nothing to smile about.
bringbackthe80s is offline  
Old 23rd Sep 2020, 09:51
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 680
What about that top quality rest you're now afforded after the years of abuse?
Contact Approach is offline  
Old 23rd Sep 2020, 10:02
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Coast to Coast...
Posts: 151
Personally, I think you guys in those kinds of jobs are mugs. I've flown an average of 500 hours a year for the past 5 years. I slept better then than now!
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 10:12
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Dubai, once... now London
Age: 46
Posts: 46
Contact Approach

You mean the quality of rest You get by being jobless and not knowing when and IF You will step in a flight deck again and will have to possibly reinvent yourself in a complete different industrie starting from the bottom of the food chain ?
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 10:16
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Dubai, once... now London
Age: 46
Posts: 46
bringbackthe80s

Agree.

All the BS going on about transferable skills and so on... all those crew coaches trying to hook you up to show you your "real potential" and crap like that.
The vast majority of my former colleagues who lost their pilots jobs and do not have the time to wait for something better to come are working as Tesco drivers or Uber.
Maybe they need to find their real potential.
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 11:38
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 470
To find any semblance of "real potential" in another industry, you need to commit to it for a good number of years, put a lot of effort into learning (because non-technical skills are essential but without the technical ones you're no professional in anything) and gain experience, starting from the bottom of the ladder. I.e. reinvent yourself completely, which has to start with accepting that aviation is now history for you and you're not coming back into it ever again.

In the end of the day, that's not what the majority of redundant pilots want. At least two thirds of them intend on coming back into flying as soon as given the chance. Hence the "survival" jobs driving delivery vans etc. That's all their current qualification allows for under the circumstances - and getting another one now is only worthwhile if you intend on sticking with it long-term. Spending 2-3 years in misery retraining onto something else, only to bin it and go back into flying right after, hardly makes sense long-term.
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 11:41
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Coast to Coast...
Posts: 151
Nail. Head. On.
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 13:13
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 22
guy/macdo

I don’t care. Should they start taking the Mick and slash t’s&c’s to that sort of level then I’m pulling the pin. They can get some other mug to sit in the left seat.
Future Rodney King is offline  

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