Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Terms and Endearment
Reload this Page >

Worldwide Redundant Pilots-Smile Please

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

Worldwide Redundant Pilots-Smile Please

Old 23rd Sep 2020, 18:59
  #81 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Uk
Posts: 120
nickler

That’s the problem - if you have a CV with your airline experience on it you’ll get turned down by anyone looking for permanent staff doing anything , as rightly so they know you’ll disappear as and when things improve

Your only real chance for a quick few quid is zero hours stuff in logistics or such like , as depressing a thought as that is.

Or if you are ex - RAF become a after dinner / motivational speaker as it appears 75% do for some reason
Meester proach is offline  
Old 23rd Sep 2020, 19:36
  #82 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 470
Agreed. Again, it's either a not-so-plush job until things improve OR a complete career change forever. In the latter case, you will be able to convince a decent employer to hire you because, having committed to a career change with all the associated efforts and expenditure, you'll appear unlikely to bolt in the very moment any airline starts hiring. Otherwise, focus your search on jobs which have a high staff turnaround in any times. Call centres, supermarkets and many other places are looking for staff all the time because nobody treats this sort of job as anything long-term.

If neither of those two options looks appealing, the third one is working for yourself. But, again, this requires qualification and experience which might or might not be worth getting if you still haven't got them. Examples of that kind of jobs are tradesman, driving instructor, tutor, maybe also financial advisor or marriage counsellor (both very well suited to the average pilot). Depends on what you can do and have done outside of the flight deck.
PilotLZ is offline  
Old 23rd Sep 2020, 21:20
  #83 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Dubai, once... now London
Age: 46
Posts: 46
I agree with your theories, the point is -at least for me- that it’s really though to decide to give up an aviation career because of something that is so crazy like this pandemic. It is also worth mentioning that it is unlikely that any new career started in your mid 40s will pay you enough to keep flying on week ends at your local flying club, unless you are single with no mortgages and expenses.
nickler is offline  
Old 24th Sep 2020, 09:18
  #84 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Coast to Coast...
Posts: 151
Free bit of advice and you probably won't hear it from anywhere else. In a global pandemic situation, upfront honesty is not always going to be the best policy. This is a fight for survival in many cases. Remove any mention of your flying experience and details of your license from your CV. Your aviation CV is for aviation jobs and nothing more. I'm sure there's many of you out there whose situation is becoming dire and even after selling the car at a massive loss and putting down the pets, you'll be seeing the need to substantially readjust and downsize your lifestyles in order to survive on a Delivery Driver wage. I'm sorry, but I'd rather conceal the truth before I lose everything I have, but that's just me with my flakey principles in the face of adversity. Be bold, convert that 15 years of piloting into 'Business Owner running a transportation business'. Help yourself to get a better job. Don't lend yourselves to being judged or you will suffer.
Smooth Airperator is offline  
Old 24th Sep 2020, 10:36
  #85 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Dubai, once... now London
Age: 46
Posts: 46
So Your advice is to massively lie about what you have done so far in your life ? How far do you think that will get you ?
If you have been running a transportation business for 15/20 years and nobody knows anything about it then it also means it was a crappy service.
Come on...
nickler is offline  
Old 24th Sep 2020, 10:47
  #86 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 470
The problem is, you're often required to provide some form of records or references proving your previous employment. If it was otherwise, everyone could make up whatever "employment history" they feel is most appropriate for the job. Employers often do some form of vetting on their candidates without telling them - and, if it turns out that you've been grossly dishonest in the application form, this can bite your lower back a lot worse than the fact that you have spent X years flying for an airline.
PilotLZ is offline  
Old 24th Sep 2020, 20:01
  #87 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
Posts: 2,544
I've been used as reference's several times in the last few months . All pilots I knew , some for flying jobs some not . I was never asked about the individuals flying skills . Pilots need to check their egos at the door , get over yourselves and move on . Harsh but needed!
fatbus is offline  
Old 24th Sep 2020, 22:38
  #88 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 470
No reference will detail anyone's pilot skills because, first, a lot of that is subjective judgement, and, second, do you really want to take any unnecessary responsibility? If you say that X is an awesome pilot and he overshoots the runway tomorrow, can it be that the legal department will be after you because you gave an untrue description of his skills? On the contrary, if you write down that he was less than perfect and he doesn't get the job because of this, he can sue you for damage. That's why most references I've seen only contain plain and easy to confirm facts. Was employed from this date to this date in this capacity, flew that number of hours in his role, passed his last proficiency check on this date, had no formal investigations or disciplinary inquiries launched against him. That's about it.

And this is the very reason why lying about your background is not a good idea.
PilotLZ is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2020, 07:12
  #89 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Dubai, once... now London
Age: 46
Posts: 46
fatbus

Ego ? Move on ? Nobody here is saying that as pilots we deserve anything more than people working regular 9-5 ground jobs BUT I believe that as a group we are getting tired of getting our ax kicked every single time there is some sort of crisis in the world, whether it is a minor or major one like in this circumstance.
nickler is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2020, 08:36
  #90 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Coast to Coast...
Posts: 151
So Your advice is to massively lie
Nope, me thinks you need to read what I wrote again.
Smooth Airperator is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2020, 08:40
  #91 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Dubai, once... now London
Age: 46
Posts: 46
Being a pilot employed by one or more airlines is not owning a transportation business unless you have done that as a second job while flying, which I doubt many of us did flying close to max FDP limits for years.
nickler is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2020, 21:23
  #92 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Uk
Posts: 120
I can’t really do that - I’d have to fabricate 28 years or so and I’m not that good at being that slippery SO......
The saving grace is , I’ve been here before, therefore I always lived to about 35-40% of the salary - yeah so, I didn’t have a second home, flash car or boat but we were still relatively well off .

This means I can live on the JRS , we can get jobs paying enough to continue ...don’t need much .
Meester proach is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2020, 15:02
  #93 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Rhones-Alpes
Posts: 0
nicker

This really does read to me as if you continue to think that you are something special, and in this case specially disadvantaged and picked upon. Do you never read/listen to the news and learn about steel-workers, car-workers, oil-workers, ship-builders ( they do still exist ) even the military who have all been affected by world events leading to (often very big )job losses in the recent pre-covid past ?
Tartiflette Fan is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2020, 18:47
  #94 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Uk
Posts: 120
I’m sure he’s aware , but this is not the “ Tata steel workers rumour network “ nor the “ esso roughnecks rumour network “, which is why we tend to concentrate on pilot problems .

We are not a special case, but work in one of those industries very prone to massive boom/ bust cycles.
Meester proach is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2020, 18:47
  #95 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Dubai, once... now London
Age: 46
Posts: 46
Tartiflette Fan

This really does read to me you are not following the thread. Somebody was stating you should “adjust” your resume if you’re looking for a job outside aviation. I was pointing out it’s hard to hide 20+ years spent in the flight deck as you can’t just make up a job you’ve never done.
nickler is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2020, 22:25
  #96 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Rhones-Alpes
Posts: 0
I disagree about being in a very "prone" industry. You are in the middle, but have a huge degree of entitlement which finds its expression in threads like this..
Tartiflette Fan is offline  
Old 28th Sep 2020, 07:52
  #97 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Dubai, once... now London
Age: 46
Posts: 46
It's funny how there seems to be a few user who joined right about at the same time (April 2020) and the majority of their forum activity is to diminish our (former?) pilot jobs by repeating we are not special, we have been overpaid for years and mine workers have a tougher life than us.
So habibis first of all you are in a forum dedicated to aviation professionals and I believe the vast majority of us is proud to be or to have been employed in this sector. Second point is I am proud, yes PROUD, of my job as an airline pilot for the last 25 years. So if You have got nothing better to do, and decided to join PPRuNe right in the middle of the pandemic mess to freak around with serious professionals who have always put their heart in their activities, then I believe it is about time You start considering some more productive ways of spending your not so valuable time.
nickler is offline  
Old 28th Sep 2020, 08:19
  #98 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 470
Many find comfort in denigrating aviation just because they didn't get what they wanted out of it for whatever reason. Many of those are wannabes who have never had any pilot job. Some are disgruntled experienced pilots. The common denominator of all of them is that they feel better about themselves when pointing out other people's choices as "wrong" (without suggesting any better course of action) and when trying to convince themselves that there was nothing worth fighting for by trying to convince others therein.
PilotLZ is offline  
Old 29th Sep 2020, 19:32
  #99 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Mecca
Posts: 44
Negativity aside, what’s the educated ( and as optimistic as possible pls) prognosis for Jan 2021 for global aviation in terms of routes flown, passenger loads and recruitment patterns.
Would make for some interesting thoughts …🤔
Lucifer786 is offline  
Old 29th Sep 2020, 19:55
  #100 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 470
I don't know for sure about global, but the Eurocontrol forecast for Europe until March says that, with the current state of affairs, traffic numbers will stay at about 40-50% of 2019 levels for the coming 6 months. Obviously, this can be reviewed in either direction at any time. The next EC meeting on border reopening is on 13 October, if memory serves me well. Obviously, the EC is advising in favour of a more unified approach than now that could aid travel recovery, but it remains to be seen how willing to take part the national governments will be.

If you ask me, the optimistic scenario is some more significant movement towards spring 2021, hopefully followed by a summer that will be better than summer 2020. Whether that will be achieved through the natural course of the pandemic, through a vaccine, through cheap and easy testing or through a combination of those - we can only guess for now.
PilotLZ is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.