BA pilots vote to strike

[GS-Alpha]

Originally Posted by wiggy

but ultimately where we are is not down to the mass BA membership lacking will or spine...

If a few reps being leant on is enough to thwart the will and determination of the membership, there is surely a problem with the structure of the union? Going from a strong mandate to strike, to a strong mandate to end strikes, when nothing really changed, can only have reduced the chances of a future strike and improved BA’s ability to cut costs.

[RexBanner]

We lost the moment we cancelled the third day of strike. It was painted as some kind of genius move, utter cobblers. Even if it was intended to show deescalation it portrayed massive weakness to management. But we are where we are.

[Built4Speed2]

This can’t be right?

I’ve just been told, no doubt erroneously, that the same Council is in place today that led the strike. That can’t be true, surely? With such a crushing defeat, save the fluffy marriage counselling, the honourable thing to do would be to step down immediately. Management will never respect this team again, and having been through a crushing strike in my own company, I doubt the reps themselves can look each other in the eye. If this is the same team, expect bitter recriminations and internal fights for years to come. Dead men walking.

New faces needed, surely everyone can agree on that? At the very least with the chair so compromised due to his past misdemeanours, he has to step aside, the employer will always be able to blackmail him with that alone.

(apologies if there is a new Council in place and I’ve been given duff info)

[wiggy]

Despite appearances there was no “crushing defeat” and yes, the same company council are still in place.

TBH I have no idea as to what is going on (no change there then) at the top table other than there’s now more infighting and argument going on over a decision made by a senior rep to help the company out when the flying programme came under stress a few days ago.....

I do rather suspect the company regard last summer’s events as a mere speed bump on the road to even more savings and efficiencies.....

[Trossie]

As an outsider it does seem to come across as "what was all the fuss about?"

But a whole lot of passengers were inconvenienced along the way (and on this one it doesn't appear to be either side that individually deserves the 'finger pointing' but rather both sides)..

[wiggy]

Originally Posted by Trossie

As an outsider it does seem to come across as "what was all the fuss about?".

How long have you got? The.problem is only one of the items that was causing “the fuss” has even been half addressed (pay). The rest of the items are still there, festering...

[TURIN]

I remember at the start of this that any improved offer to pilots would also apply to the rest of the collective. From what I can see, the improvement is an extra £1/hrs flying pay. Obviously, this won't apply to the ground staff. Did I miss anything?

[Trossie]

Originally Posted by Trossie

Many here say that public support is irrelevant. Public support will be zero. Public opposition will be huge. When the travelling public, who on average earn a fraction of what the striking pilots already earn, have their travel plans seriously disrupted for those pilots to get a pay rise that most of that travelling public could only dream of, the opposition will be huge. Don't expect support from a single newspaper, TV news channel nor radio station. Expect to be vilified by all of them. Don't expect them to listen to your complaints that you should be compared with German, Dutch or American airlines, they won't be interested in that. They will be blaming you for their travel disruption.

Originally Posted by wiggy

How long have you got? The.problem is only one of the items that was causing “the fuss” has even been half addressed (pay). The rest of the items are still there, festering...

So, seeing it all from the outside, there was a big fuss, not a lot was solved, some things may have got worse and a lot of people had travel plans disrupted. Is there any other way that outsiders should see this? How do you convince people that BA is a good and reliable airline on which to book a flight? It might make some outsiders a wee bit nervous to hear that pilots aren't happy. Try to think through an outsider's viewpoint when answering, not just from 'within a bubble'.

[bex88]

My fault Turin, it is actually 4% and then 3.5% in January and 4% the following April. It is part of the variable pay that makes up pilots salary.

Trossie, the first strike in a generation and a resolution. I don’t think you need to worry. 90% voted in favour....roughly

[wiggy]

Originally Posted by Trossie

So, seeing it all from the outside, there was a big fuss, not a lot was solved, some things may have got worse and a lot of people had travel plans disrupted. Is there any other way that outsiders should see this? How do you convince people that BA is a good and reliable airline on which to book a flight? It might make some outsiders a wee bit nervous to hear that pilots aren't happy. Try to think through an outsider's viewpoint when answering, not just from 'within a bubble'.

Like many here this for tha last 6 months I’ve had to plan holidays, work travel etc with this and other strikes in mind so I’m not sure many of us are in a bubble, but anyway, bubble or not, objectively this dispute is done and dusted...

As bex has said there has been a “resolution”...IMVHO not much changed but the company’s offer was put to the membership, after a ballot the proposals were accepted by a decent majority...that’s it. The U.K. isn’t France, the action can’t just be turned back on like a tap,

As for the “good and reliable airline” aspect of this, there is far far more to that than the BALPA dispute and maybe you need to ask of management how well they are doing at facilitating a good and reliable airline....the workforce can only do so much with the resources they are given.

[Barcli]

Originally Posted by TURIN

I remember at the start of this that any improved offer to pilots would also apply to the rest of the collective. From what I can see, the improvement is an extra £1/hrs flying pay. Obviously, this won't apply to the ground staff. Did I miss anything?

Some of the Pilots ( ALL ex BMI SH) dont get the extra £1 either........I say again , sold down the river to protect the few

[Jumbo2]

Originally Posted by Barcli

Some of the Pilots ( ALL ex BMI SH) dont get the extra £1 either........I say again , sold down the river to protect the few

Protect the few?

[SkyRocket10]

Some of the Pilots ( ALL ex BMI SH) dont get the extra £1 either........I say again , sold down the river to protect the few

Incorrect! I understand over 50% have now transferred onto the BA pay scales and therefore will receive the flying pay increase. It only affect those that have remained on their bmi contracted pay scales. I understand this was to protect their salaries when they transferred to BA. Now who wants all the pie!?! 🙄

[JPJP]

Originally Posted by wiggy

How long have you got? The.problem is only one of the items that was causing “the fuss” has even been half addressed (pay). The rest of the items are still there, festering...

British Airways pilots have some of the worst pay scales and scheduling rules of any first world, western, wildly profitable airline. Two crew flights to the Midwest, and pay scales for Captains that rival their First Officer U.S. counterparts.

Just before Christmas, with a legal right to strike, with a legitimate position, and a management praying quietly that you wouldn’t cave - You did exactly that.

One wonders what would have happened, if the cadet and Nigel culture that exists an BA now, had been dominant in English society in 1939.




I see no relation.

[bex88]

Wow, what a stupid post. I see no relation either to my teenage grandfather flying a mosquito during WW2 and a pilot strike at BA in 2019.

[Bellerophon]

JPJP

... and a management praying quietly that you wouldn’t cave ...

I suspect you meant management were praying you would cave ( or wouldn't strike)

[wiggy]

Originally Posted by Bellerophon

JPJP

... and a management praying quietly that you wouldn’t cave ...

I suspect you meant management were praying you would cave ( or wouldn't strike)

He might have meant exactly what he said...there is certainly a POV that has been expressed elsewhere that some in management would have welcomed the opportunities another day’s strike action would have given them.

[JPJP]

Originally Posted by bex88

I see no relation either to my teenage grandfather flying a mosquito during WW2 and a pilot strike at BA in 2019.

I think you’ve missed the point. Both ventures require testicular fortitude and a degree of trust in each other. Seems that it missed a generation or two in this case.

Originally Posted by Bellerophon

JPJP
I suspect you meant management were praying you would cave ( or wouldn't strike)

Thank you. That’s exactly what I meant. As to Wiggys theory - No. I don’t think that management wanted you to strike at Christmas. I think they were praying fervently that you wouldn’t.

The FUD spread intentionally by management in these situations includes the ‘boogeyman gambit’; the unseen brilliant plan in store for the pilots if they continue on the foolish path. Much like the ‘taking of hostages’ (firing, removing pay, travel privileges), it’s one of many tools in a classic playbook. Klaus is well aquatinted. And BALPA should have been both aware and educating the pilot group. Once it’s all over, jobs etc. are restored under a final agreement. Life moves on.

Or, you get next to nothing. Except a long term hole in your pilot group’s confidence, a gaping wound where the shreds of your union once lurked. Along with a management group emboldened, clinking glasses and rolling in the money that you left on the table.

Sorry - It’s sad to watch. It’s also puzzling.

[Built4Speed2]

Puzzling indeed. As is the role of the general secretary in all this. With the exception of that god awful press interview he gave, where has he been? He’s presided over strike ballots at Ryanair and BA, concurrently. Yet is nowhere to be seen. He’s either feckless and is being walked all over by the NEC or local councils or he’s a classic willy waver whose bark is worse than his bite. Either way he’s been totally marginalised and swept aside as a man who must be dealt with.

Grenshaw and Darke did a lot less damage to pilots’ collective interests and yet they were booted out. Why is our gas fitter friend still in post?

[GS-Alpha]

100% agree with every word JPJP.