Ryanair Cancelling flights!
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 4
From: last time I looked I was still here.
RYR share price down 7% Contrast the current FR situation with EZ
What might be curious is that ez shares took quite a bump this week, perhaps on the Brexit progress, their AB deal and their apparent success with setting up an OE AOC. Plus their expansion plans and the troubles in RYR. Yet in the past coupe of days ez have slipped back. One would have thought, if ez is succeeding, beneath the scenes, and their main rival is in troubled waters, that ez could be forecast to pick up a lot of disgruntled pax. Remember RYR have already said they will ground ore a/c than originally planned and so less supply in the market.
What might be curious is that ez shares took quite a bump this week, perhaps on the Brexit progress, their AB deal and their apparent success with setting up an OE AOC. Plus their expansion plans and the troubles in RYR. Yet in the past coupe of days ez have slipped back. One would have thought, if ez is succeeding, beneath the scenes, and their main rival is in troubled waters, that ez could be forecast to pick up a lot of disgruntled pax. Remember RYR have already said they will ground ore a/c than originally planned and so less supply in the market.
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
From: UK
I hope it all works out, but seriously, deep down do you really feel this is a serious offer by MOL?
Delay the talks until after X-Mas, massive recruitment drive and then he will get rid of the ones who threatened to strike... this is the most likely outcome.
Hope I’m wrong though!
Delay the talks until after X-Mas, massive recruitment drive and then he will get rid of the ones who threatened to strike... this is the most likely outcome.
Hope I’m wrong though!
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
From: Antipodes
MOL is an astute person and he is where he is at the top due to his ability to bargain and to turn things to his advantage.
This "recognition" is a ploy since there are conditions attached in it. What MOL is trying to do is to stun his adversaries with this genius - I'll call it - a stroke since it will lull his opponents in thinking that he has given way and make them think that he's more amenable to "talk".
The worst thing that the pilots can do now is to say "yes, great, we'll talk and we give you the benefit of doubt and think that you are genuine, and we'll postpone the strike". MOL has already averted one in Italy. He'll come with other ploys up to the 20th, and when Xmas is over, he'll start to use delaying tactics to try to get things his own way.
The pressure must be kept and MOL must recognise the countries' unions and the EERC without any conditions. A union can have people from various companies as their members and he can't discriminate by saying that he wants such and such a person in the union.
What he's trying to do - as somebody mentioned in a previous post - is trying to have the control of "this union that RYR will recognise" and that this is just a disguised country ERC.
The only solution to call the strikes off, is for RYR to UNCONDITIONNALLY recognise the unions and the EERC IMMEDIATELY by signing whatever needs to be signed - unions lawyers know what is required to make things legally binding.
This "recognition" is a ploy since there are conditions attached in it. What MOL is trying to do is to stun his adversaries with this genius - I'll call it - a stroke since it will lull his opponents in thinking that he has given way and make them think that he's more amenable to "talk".
The worst thing that the pilots can do now is to say "yes, great, we'll talk and we give you the benefit of doubt and think that you are genuine, and we'll postpone the strike". MOL has already averted one in Italy. He'll come with other ploys up to the 20th, and when Xmas is over, he'll start to use delaying tactics to try to get things his own way.
The pressure must be kept and MOL must recognise the countries' unions and the EERC without any conditions. A union can have people from various companies as their members and he can't discriminate by saying that he wants such and such a person in the union.
What he's trying to do - as somebody mentioned in a previous post - is trying to have the control of "this union that RYR will recognise" and that this is just a disguised country ERC.
The only solution to call the strikes off, is for RYR to UNCONDITIONNALLY recognise the unions and the EERC IMMEDIATELY by signing whatever needs to be signed - unions lawyers know what is required to make things legally binding.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 980
Likes: 11
From: On the dark side of the moon
I don't believe for a second that MO'L made this call on his own. This announcement has a board of directors' boot prints stamped all over it. It's likely his backside has a couple of boot prints on it as well.
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: Under the radar
FR seem to be on boarding much faster but what does this tell us about FR?
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
From: Dublin, Ireland
It ain't sorted yet;
Check out RTE news for the latest;
Ryanair has told pilot unions it cannot meet their representatives before Wednesday, the day when strikes are scheduled in Ireland and Portugal.
According to union sources, Wednesday's stoppage will not be called off without an initial meeting with Ryanair management taking place.
Sources said the pilots had written to Ryanair after the airline's unprecedented announcement this morning that it was prepared to recognise unions for the first time in its 32-year history in a bid to avert next Wednesday' strike.
In the letter, Impact said it was prepared to meet the company at any time, and preferably today.
However, it is understood that Ryanair management told Impact that it could not schedule a first engagement before Wednesday.
Pilot sources accused the airline of "playing chicken", and warned that the strikes will not be called off without an initial meeting taking place.
In a statement, Ryanair said Impact promised to call off the strike if Ryanair conceded recognition, adding "they've gotten our offer of recognition in writing."
The airline say "the sensible course of action" is for the meeting to take place next Wednesday and for the strike to be called off.
Cute as a box of foxes.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 479
Likes: 27
From: at the edge of the alps
It's not up to MOL to choose whom he talks to. His pilots choose a union and union reps for him to talk to. He can either talk or not talk and take the consequences. Whether the reps the union sends fly for Ryanair or some other company or are employees of a union (as chief industrial coordinators in VC usually are) is not really his choice or business. That's all just talk to try to portray the union as a plot by other companies to destroy Ryanair.
Unions need to coordinate their talks as he might try to continue trying to divide and conquer during negotiations.
With MOL I wouldn't even rule out asking for RYR employed negotiators to come to the table just to fire them once he has names....
Let's keep our fingers crossed for this to work out and support our RYR brethren in any way we can to raise industry standards for employment.
Unions need to coordinate their talks as he might try to continue trying to divide and conquer during negotiations.
With MOL I wouldn't even rule out asking for RYR employed negotiators to come to the table just to fire them once he has names....
Let's keep our fingers crossed for this to work out and support our RYR brethren in any way we can to raise industry standards for employment.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,991
Likes: 8
From: UK
First of all good luck to the pilots - I'm with you all the way.
Leopards do not change their spots and I suspect nothing will change till MOL departs.
As Reagan once famously said about the Russians "Trust but verify"!
Leopards do not change their spots and I suspect nothing will change till MOL departs.
As Reagan once famously said about the Russians "Trust but verify"!
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 624
Likes: 0
From: I wish I knew
Its a step in the right direction and congratulations to former colleagues. One important issue is that the " unions" work in harmony, if different country reps start demanding "local terms" the process will fail, and justifiably so. Unionisation is meant to improve the communication and conditions for the majority not the minority. The value of "other company union reps" is questionable, its your train set and you need to avoid the traditional left wing issues that have been obstacles to progress that are often ingrained in old union practice, its a new dawn, treat it as such and the chances of success are improved. In short, goodwill on both sides!
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
From: Far East
If RYR pilots achieve Union recognition and enter structured negotiations with RYR it will be a momentous achievement.
All those RYR pilots who had no faith and rushed to sign the pay offer recently to get their hands on a cheap trick...........you should all be humbled , perhaps even a tad ashamed...........the least you could do now is sign up to a union membership and get with the progeamme.
Alas perhaps offer up your ill gotten gains the from the last couple of months to help fund your union ?
All those RYR pilots who had no faith and rushed to sign the pay offer recently to get their hands on a cheap trick...........you should all be humbled , perhaps even a tad ashamed...........the least you could do now is sign up to a union membership and get with the progeamme.
Alas perhaps offer up your ill gotten gains the from the last couple of months to help fund your union ?
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 216
Likes: 0
From: Ireland
The pilots wanted professional advisors present in their negotiations with management and that they got, as long as those advisers at the table are not currently employed by another airline. Fully understandable since no mgmt want to discuss internal terms with the employees of the competitor. It doesn't say they can't be ex employees, independent advisors or full time employees of a union.
Secondly they wanted to negotiate as a whole pilot body. By negotiating on country basis they are part way there, and again they can use the independent advisors to be present at all the different country negotiations, to create a unified solution.
And the potential risk of firing to they who step forward as union members at the negotiations, can be answered by a united front and further actions, since anything on paper offfer little protection and could easily be bypassed by they who like to delay things through the legal system.
The delay in the start of meetings could be because mgmt want to get in some advisors of their own, since there is little sign of them having any experience of actually negotiating with a proffesional union. Or maybe put together a new negotiating team altogether, without so much historical mediapublished baggage.
Secondly they wanted to negotiate as a whole pilot body. By negotiating on country basis they are part way there, and again they can use the independent advisors to be present at all the different country negotiations, to create a unified solution.
And the potential risk of firing to they who step forward as union members at the negotiations, can be answered by a united front and further actions, since anything on paper offfer little protection and could easily be bypassed by they who like to delay things through the legal system.
The delay in the start of meetings could be because mgmt want to get in some advisors of their own, since there is little sign of them having any experience of actually negotiating with a proffesional union. Or maybe put together a new negotiating team altogether, without so much historical mediapublished baggage.
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 99
Likes: 1
From: Location
Strike to go ahead unless Ryanair meet union beforehand
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: london
not sure i follow this strategy. if Ryanair has offered the pilot unions talks on recognition (at last) to avert strike action. No one knows where these talks will lead yet and clearly it could be the airline simply buying a few weeks time. However, in this time surely the unions will grow stronger now that the momentum is with the pilots. carrying out strike action until a meeting seems odd. No employer is accept a huge list of demands before talks begin. if Ryanair have completely betrayed their pilots on recognition talks, they will realise any action next will be a lot more widespread.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: Norway
One would be a fool of monumental dimensions to believe this RYR mob. They Will try to screw you over, play you and Lie as history has shown again and again. They WILL NOT come around WITHOUT a show of force. Stay focused and Carry out strikes and hit them hard as planned until a deal is actually signed. If they dont have time to meet NOW, this is not important enough for them. Maybe a show of force Will make them come to table faster.
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 99
Likes: 1
From: Location
Ryanair offers to meet with union ahead of strike action
The management is finally "offering" to meet on Tuesday.
https://amp.independent.ie/business/...mpression=true
https://amp.independent.ie/business/...mpression=true
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 273
Likes: 5
From: Ireland
It's actually death by a thousand self inflicted cuts for FR the way they're doing things. The not recognising unions game is up but they just cannot bring themselves to admit it.
It's a PR disaster!
It's a PR disaster!
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 331
Likes: 4
From: Southern Europe
Looks like MOL just wants to gain time.
Stay focused ! Don't let your guard down ! Hold your ground firmly !
One more "small" detail. In this era of Android and Whatsup, it is wise to assume he is well aware of all your plans and intentions.
Stay focused ! Don't let your guard down ! Hold your ground firmly !
One more "small" detail. In this era of Android and Whatsup, it is wise to assume he is well aware of all your plans and intentions.
Last edited by zerograv; 16th December 2017 at 22:29. Reason: grammar
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,673
Likes: 2
From: Europe
When assessing the enemy consider this:
Mr O'Leary will face sustained revenue pressure, this affects cash flow.
Shareholders start to worry when it impacts...
- They may not count what you think is important
- Make sure the target of your actions shows up in their excel spread sheet.
Mr O'Leary will face sustained revenue pressure, this affects cash flow.
Shareholders start to worry when it impacts...