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Norwegian VS Ryanair

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Norwegian VS Ryanair

Old 4th May 2016, 21:23
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sydney
Posts: 272
This winter may be different. It appears that Orient Ship Management, OSM, has been requested not to provide, or is unable to provide, sufficient pilots to cause any layoff.

As reported today, May 4, in Norway’s leading (by circulation) newspapers; DN, E24, Aftenposten and Dagbladet:

“Pilot Association:- Norwegian is understaffed pilots”. In response, Norwegian admits their management incompetence;

“It is correct not good enough internal planning meant that we did not have enough pilots for a period”.

http://www.dn.no/nyheter/naringsliv/...nnet-p-piloter

“…..pilots and cabin crew are being encouraged to work extra”

http://e24.no/jobb/norwegian-air-shu...loter/23674557

“In one message from early April, it says there is general lack of cabin crew and pilots on all Norwegian bases”

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/ir...e-8455849.html

“Norwegian’s reputation amongst pilots in freefall”

http://www.dagbladet.no/2016/05/04/n...gian/44082579/
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Old 5th May 2016, 08:31
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Tenerife
Posts: 15
Even requesting the crews cooperation to work during days off due to lack of them they kept on people on 50% unpaid leave . Some flights were cancelled and many guys were at home unpaid leave oblied , make nonsense.
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Old 5th May 2016, 09:29
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Tenerife
Posts: 15
Some still owe them type rating, some at home , everybody have a different reason ,others leaving or considering to leave.
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Old 15th May 2016, 11:17
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: N/A
Posts: 14
"As reflected in our company slogan «It’s all about people», the core of OSM Aviation is our employees."
It's all about people????.It's all about exploiting people, you mean...
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Old 15th May 2016, 23:58
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: brussels
Posts: 2
tripulante can you explain why? We hardly get in here more infos about NAS other than it's a bad airline. But could you guys tell more about the company? As the author started with, what's the roster like? Can anybody tell about base, training, pay, benefits, good points/bad points?
With more infos it could really help to make our own opinion. Thank you
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Old 16th May 2016, 06:54
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sydney
Posts: 272
“It's all about people???? It's all about exploiting people, you mean...”

It should be no surprise Kjos was named Leader of the Year by Manpower Group, which specializes in “large scale outsourced recruitment initiatives”. In an interview with Nettavisen, Managing Director of Manpower, Maalfrid Brath, said of Kjos:-

“He has built a business idea into HR area, while he has actively exploited the opportunities that the competitive situation has given in relation to HR”

http://www.nettavisen.no/na24/2754932.html

After crew members were sent “threatening text messages” from Norwegian’s henchmen, Norway labor union PARAT may propose an alternative accolade:-

http://www.thelocal.no/20140507/norw...ith-sms-threat

To my knowledge, Kjos has never won any award for promoting the Scandinavian reputation and ideology for quality of working life, although a number of prominent people and organizations have suggested Kjos qualifies for a global racing award….
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Old 16th May 2016, 10:09
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: brussels
Posts: 2
Sorry Bondi but that's not helping.. Important to know but not helping.. Anybody else please?
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Old 17th May 2016, 02:57
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Naples, FL, USA
Age: 34
Posts: 63
I think if you have a read on PPRuNe you will come across a lot of not so positive details about life in Norwegian or shall I say OSM.

But if you choose not to listen or believe what has been posted I will make a short summery.

-if you don't hold enough seniority, you will be made redundant during the winter mounts, yes captains also. Every year they say it won't happen again. But it does.

-they will promise you a permanent contract and then they will find a way out of giving one to you. Ask Lgw pilots if you don't believe me.

-they will promise local terms and conditions and again find a way out of doing that.

-they say that they follow the master seniority list and again only when it convenient for mgmt.

-constant roster changes, no roster stability.

-constant overnights in crap hotels, yes you will need to make your own way to the hotel with public transport.

-crap crew meals.

-constant positioning, yes deadheading crew will now have to board as last.

-night flights, checkin at midnight checkout in the morning. With rostering hounding you to operate later that day after minimum rest.

-Inhumane duty days (but legal). As an example Lpa Tos 7 hours block time and passive back.
Fdp 8:30 hours and 16 hour duty day.

-30 days of annual leave, reduced to 18 actual leave days. Legal, who knows, but they do it anyway.

-oh and have I mentioned the morale is low. How low you ask well everyone who can get out is getting out.

-And don't think that you will be getting any staff travel on the other fleet. Apparently we our all one family. But forget about it.

The general feeling in the company is of mismanagement and resignation. I.e no one cares. If there is a problem the answer is always to Wet-lease.

Last edited by lear999wa; 17th May 2016 at 03:23.
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Old 17th May 2016, 05:57
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Spot on lear999wa
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Old 17th May 2016, 12:46
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
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I heard an interesting rumour yesterday regarding outsourcing of Core production , whilst still using the same airframes/cabin crew but A..N Other AOC/Flight Deck crew . . . . just a "Rumour" for the moment, but, if it comes to pass it will be another low for this stinking regime.



Oh, and Lear has described it exactly as it "really is" , not the sugar coated BS you will be fed at interview. . . . .
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Old 17th May 2016, 16:36
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
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How can you call an interview sugar coated when you have to pay ticket, hotacc etc outta yer own lil pouch?
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Old 17th May 2016, 19:56
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Interview isn't , but the "propaganda" promulgated at said occasion is . . . . . .
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Old 17th May 2016, 20:43
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 281
Thanks lear999wa for that insight. I actually always thought Norwegian is not that bad, but based on what you wrote I am more then happy that I have chosen RYR instead. Well, mainly because I am tired of any night stops and finally starting AND finishing duty days at my homebase. That was making the deal for me honestly. Plus the money is not that bad as some guys always write. For a tired, medium aged airliner, sick of hotels and long haul the perfect escape I must confess. Was starting my airline career like that, start at homebase, finish at homebase, did that for 6 years in my young years. Then started with all that "beautiful" big airline and Longhaul BS, bored during flying and then hanging around in some nice, but far away from home hotel. And that all over and over and over again. Happy to sleep in my bed again, every night. Plus kids(don't know about the wife :-) ) are happy to see their dad again every day.

But paying your own transport going to a crew hotel is just ridiculous. Would do that only if I would get paid 15.000 Euro/Pound/USD, then I would not matter. I was wondering already when Norwegian was looking for 787 drivers and looking into the Capt salary. Did not impress me, honestly.
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Old 17th May 2016, 21:29
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Naples, FL, USA
Age: 34
Posts: 63
For the sake of being fare and balanced. The public transport to and from the hotel is payed for by the company.
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Old 17th May 2016, 23:08
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Public transport to/from hotels....? Wow.
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Old 18th May 2016, 13:09
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Europe
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That's a new low, for sure...
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Old 18th May 2016, 18:27
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
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To perhaps confirm what I posted in post #51, I received this info today




The union in Norwegian has Cancelled Subpart E in the collective agremment, Which is selling off day. So from 30 june nobody will be able to sell a day off



One would have thought that lessons had been learned in Feb 2015 after the lengthy strike, but alas, that was merely a fierce battle in what NAS seem determined to continue as a "war till the death" . I guess flagging out Norwegian production will help with their Transatlantic applications. . . . Er, no.

Last edited by captplaystation; 18th May 2016 at 18:50.
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Old 18th May 2016, 19:55
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
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The union in Norwegian has Cancelled Subpart E in the collective agremment, Which is selling off day. So from 30 june nobody will be able to sell a day off

28 years ago I worked for fledgling airline. The naive young pilots wanted to 'help the company'. So they worked on days off for nothing other than a faint promise of a simple day off in return; not even an extra day of your own choosing. The managers raped the company. Later it was discovered that the crewing levels were designed to be low, so not enough SBYs', on the assumption that crews would work on days off. Our salaries and T&C's were the lowest in the country. The company went bust 3 times before it was taken over and absorbed into a larger unit. The greed of the managers was astonishing. Still the naivety of the crews continued.
Selling a day off is perpetuating a weak structure. First discover why it should be necessary.
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Old 18th May 2016, 21:12
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
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Cheaper to buy days off than hire extra crew, but, in NAS , selling a day off is very lucrative, and those who opt for 80% can easily recuperate the rest by working a couple of OFFs, so, it hurts the pilots to do this. . . . The last time this happened was Spring 2012, and there were 8 (or more) aircraft on wet lease to cover the shortfall in manpower of crew not working OFF days.

This time it is different, as the company is entering the final phase of their oft stated intention to destroy "Core Norwegian". Already there are many wet leases to cover the shortfall caused by NAS's refusal to expand Core to cover the Summer production.

The guys have 2 choices, accept the new arrangement & be screwed over the next 18-24mths, or go out in a blaze of glory & force NAS to do what they are serrupticiously doing anyhow, the destruction of the "Real Norwegian". . . . Personally I would go for the "Big Bang" & inflict as much stress/disruption/financial loss on the greedy little bar stewards as possible. . . if they are not ostracised by bought -in labour now, they will be in any case within a very short time span. Anyone harbouring any doubts over this showers suitability as an employer, should watch closely developments over the next few months & the answer will be very clearly seen. Sad end to a great company headed by someone who went from being very nearly a visionary, to a sad imitation of O' Leary, just as O' leary was stepping out of the limelight, the Norwegian public don't like this kind of crap & I hope they vote (in droves) with their feet, but they (probably ) won't.
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Old 19th May 2016, 10:24
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Still looking
Posts: 126
Sounds just like another few we all know. It seems that only the paint scheme changes. Don't get me started on the odd authorities interpretation or oversight of the regs either!



Originally Posted by RAT 5 View Post
The union in Norwegian has Cancelled Subpart E in the collective agremment, Which is selling off day. So from 30 june nobody will be able to sell a day off

28 years ago I worked for fledgling airline. The naive young pilots wanted to 'help the company'. So they worked on days off for nothing other than a faint promise of a simple day off in return; not even an extra day of your own choosing. The managers raped the company. Later it was discovered that the crewing levels were designed to be low, so not enough SBYs', on the assumption that crews would work on days off. Our salaries and T&C's were the lowest in the country. The company went bust 3 times before it was taken over and absorbed into a larger unit. The greed of the managers was astonishing. Still the naivety of the crews continued.
Selling a day off is perpetuating a weak structure. First discover why it should be necessary.
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