Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Terms and Endearment
Reload this Page >

Norwegian VS Ryanair

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

Norwegian VS Ryanair

Old 30th Mar 2016, 18:55
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: The Earth
Age: 39
Posts: 10
Grrr Norwegian VS Ryanair

Hey guys, here is my question;

As a 737 FO, more than 1000 on type and 3000 total, which one would you prefer to work for, Ryan or Norwegian??

- Salaries
- Type of contracts
- Roster
- Time to upgrade
- Various (uniforms, sims, ...)

Note: Im too old to join BA

Ta!
capfo is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2016, 19:03
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Home soon
Posts: 1,969
Who would you rather represent?
de facto is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2016, 23:24
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: .
Posts: 118
With regards to who is better to work for, I would say it depends very much on your personal circumstances.

Ryanair will offer you permanent employment with a pension contribution and a fixed 5-4 roster with no scheduled overnights. If you live near a Ryanair base and you're lucky enough to be based at home, your quality of life increases enormously, however basing seems to be a little bit of a lottery with no guarantees and no seniority list to govern who goes where and when. Alternatively, I believe the option to work as a self employed contractor through McGinley is still available and there is plenty of info about this arrangement on here. Time to upgrade if you join meeting the requirements can be as little as 6 months, but the downside is that you will most likely have to move base upon completion and the base lottery starts all over again. You will have to cover all job related expenses, i.e. uniforms, license, medicals, transport, hotels and there is no crew food.

Norwegian is a different kettle of fish. You will be offered permanent employment, however it is permanent employment with an agency that is partially owned by Norwegian and salary, pension contributions etc are currently being negotiated with local unions. There aren't as many bases to choose from and Scandinavia is off limits for now, so you're looking at Helsinki, Rome, various Spanish bases and Gatwick. The company is heavily unionised and base allocation is based strictly on the Master Seniority List, so it may take a while to get your base of choice. The operation includes a fair amount of overnights and the roster is variable, published 1 month in advance and includes 12 days off per month. As far as command is concerned, expect at least 2 years and there is a tough evaluation process to get through before being accepted on a course. You have the option to go to long haul on the 787 if you wish, internal applicants get preferential treatment. All job related expenses are reimbursed, uniform and crew meals are provided. Job stability is less than at Ryanair, with redundancies having occurred in the winter for the last 2 years.

The differences in pay between the 2 companies are negligeable, it's much of a muchness, with Ryanair offering a slightly better deal as far as I know.
november.sierra is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2016, 23:26
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
Posts: 3,347
You are going "soft" mate ? or what. . . .


I too resisted responding really, having been kicked out from 1 for being "disloyal", (judgement still pending) & bullied by the other into paying up to keep the solicitors off my back for contentious postings in the past.


In any case, november.sierra pretty much summarised it, NAS a bit more "touchy/feely" (but it is all , in fact, a bit of a charade) & carries risks particularly as regards ongoing employment/command/base stability


Ryanair . . . well, how many threads can you read on here, how many days/weeks do you have to read them all.

Doubt if you would wish to spend your days there, but, with a decent base (meaning somewhere you live /or are happy to live , which happens to have a "human being" as a Base Capt ,some do , some don't) it is quite a pleasant way to amass experience whilst you figure out (or try to ) what is actually "better" at the moment (if you do, please let the rest of us know Eh ? ) for your next move.

Advantages are, "transparent" progression to Command, number of bases available (don't mention the system for acquiring one ) year round employment (see NAS employment history for Winter 2014 & 2015 ) no distraction from your professional responsibilities by permanently spending time on wifi
captplaystation is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2016, 23:38
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
Posts: 3,347
capfo,

I have just reread your original post.

I would imagine your priority , at this time, is seat swap. . . . .if that is the case, Ryanair are the simple solution. They need you, you need them. If I understand you need 2 Sims (so 12mths ) & if they are at the standard required you will enter the "Command" process.

Norwegian, well, a little less simple. A whole load of guys who didn't fancy pay -cut /base change to swap seats , who were pretty much "Command ready" in FR, bailed out & joined NAS in Spring 2014 with implied "rapid Commands". . . .it didn't pan out that way, DEC's were recruited continually, & some actually went back, disillusioned by the Salmon Pink Glasses they had donned. Base stability WILL affect you if you have your Command in FR, but, it will hit you even sooner if joining NAS as an FO, the last 2 Winters have seen lots of "enforced" changes, doubt this is likely to change.

I have spent the last 18mths or so , recommending FO's to join FR in preference to NAS, if you had told me this 4 years ago I would have asked that you (or I ) be certified , how times/things change.
captplaystation is offline  
Old 1st Apr 2016, 00:50
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: earth
Posts: 175
Up to a few years ago NAS would have been the undisputed choice between the two gigs; however things have changed and nowadays RYR is probably a better and more stable option.
Being able to choose one should avoid both of them.
maybepilot is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2016, 00:28
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 280
November.Sierra said it more or less already.

Ryanair:
As a Captain(it seems they are short of them which is a good thing being a Captain ^^) it seems they are very keen to offer your first base choice in the contract. Be aware that they may change that without big notice and force you to move to a new base. So, make a wise choice(e.g. a big, medium one) base wise.

If you are tired of nightstops and this bloody 6/2 or even 7/2 with the occasional 4 days in a row/month then Ryanair is the place to be. Preferably on the Ryanair contract as the "agency"(yes, it is still there, is even being offered during interview) one makes you most likely to be a "jumper".

Typerating is now finally paid by the company, only have to sign a bond(25.000 Euro/5 years). If you get something better, no big deal without paying a TR upfront.

Norwegian: Don't know really much about them but what I recently heard about them would not make me want to go there.
Got a look at the UK 787 contracts and honestly, it is avery poor paid job(Capt.787). And for that I have to do longhaul, destroy my sleep pattern and hang around again in hotels? Naa.
Norwegian 737? NO idea? Might be better, doubt it.
tomuchwork is offline  
Old 6th Apr 2016, 08:09
  #8 (permalink)  
RTO
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Scandinavia
Posts: 118
I guess the old saying is still valid. Both Norwegian and Ryanair will treat you like sh*t, but Ryan will be honest about it and Norwegian will lie to you and blow sunshine up your rear end. I am always puzzled by november.sierra's posts, he is either a firm believer in lies and evil propaganda or part of the degenerate handful of people that produces them. How is being heavy unionized a bad thing?(even if Norwegian is not). If the MSL did work as intended, you could actually partially have a life, as you would have more base stability instead of being shuffled around Europe like trash.
RTO is offline  
Old 6th Apr 2016, 10:24
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: .
Posts: 118
RTO, I'm neither a believer in evil propaganda, lies, nor am I part of the degenerate handful of people that produces them, as you so eloquently put it. I merely present facts and leave people to make up their own mind.

FYI, I never said that the airline being heavily unionised is a bad thing, quite the opposite, at least there is a voice, there is representation and the MSL does work as intended, so you clearly don't know what you're talking about and my guess is that you definitely don't fly aeroplanes with a red nose for a living.

Yes, base stability is an issue, and it is an issue in both airlines. Seasonal demands dictate this, and neither of the 2 airlines is perfect in this regard. Again, all I'm doing is presenting facts and people have to make up their own minds considering which best suits their personal circumstances. In the words of US senator Daniel Moynihan: everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts! Once again, all I do is provide facts as numerous people have acknowledged on this very thread.
november.sierra is offline  
Old 6th Apr 2016, 17:23
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: not in paradise
Posts: 62
Been on both gigs so I'll try to sum it up as close as I can.
1) same shit
2) same lie
3) different uniform
jedy is offline  
Old 7th Apr 2016, 18:47
  #11 (permalink)  
RTO
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Scandinavia
Posts: 118
there is representation and the MSL does work as intended
november.sierra: Do you really think the MSL work as intended when you have to quit your permanent position in Scandinavia and accept a mediocre contract with a dubious agency, if that MSL privilege is to be exercised? Termination of insurances an pension was not part of the MSL idea.
RTO is offline  
Old 7th Apr 2016, 19:58
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: earth
Posts: 175
Been on both gigs so I'll try to sum it up as close as I can.
1) same shit
2) same lie
3) different uniform
Couldn't be more accurate!
maybepilot is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2016, 20:33
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: .
Posts: 118
Fact is, whether we like it or not, that the powers that be have decided there is to be no further expansion in Scandinavia for the time being. This initially put K-area FO's in a difficult situation as there was no chance for command. Now the company, in accordance with the MSL, has decided that any K-area FO eligible for command upgrade, can be upgraded provided that they resign and instead sign an OSM Euro base contract. Base allocation as per MSL.

The fact that there's no expansion in Scandinavia is something the unions or the MSL have no control over, so at least upgrades are being done in accordance with the MSL. Previously, there was NO upgrades for K-area FO's and the only upgrades being done were Euro bases, FACT.
november.sierra is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2016, 09:51
  #14 (permalink)  
RTO
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Scandinavia
Posts: 118
The MSL brings nothing to the table. If a K-area FO wanted to quit the company and seek employment in another airline abroad, he could do just that.
RTO is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2016, 14:28
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: London
Posts: 24
Hey guys,

Does anyone have any information about the current situation regarding employment in Norwegian during winter season?
I read that in 2014 and 2015 they gave an ultimatum to a lot of pilots to either take an unpaid leave or quit the company... Did the same happen this winter? Have they undertaken any strategies to improve the situation?
Thanks for any replies!
Kudlaty is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2016, 16:46
  #16 (permalink)  
RTO
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Scandinavia
Posts: 118
Hey guys,

Does anyone have any information about the current situation regarding employment in Norwegian during winter season?
I read that in 2014 and 2015 they gave an ultimatum to a lot of pilots to either take an unpaid leave or quit the company... Did the same happen this winter? Have they undertaken any strategies to improve the situation?
Thanks for any replies!
Nothing is being done to remedy the situation. During winter the operation is run with an extreme shortage of crew. In summertime they trick people into signing 2 year contracts for LGW and tell them on the first day that its gonna be 6 months in Oslo instead. Come winter you are all fired again.
RTO is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2016, 20:31
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: London
Posts: 24
Fantastic news.... So did the same happen this winter?
Why are they recruiting now if they have been laying people off for half a year for the past 3 years???
Kudlaty is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2016, 21:21
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: On SBY next to my phone
Posts: 287
It's just the third miscalculation by the crew planners. Don't worry it won't happen again.
TypeIV is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2016, 21:42
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
Posts: 3,347
I doubt it is an "honest mistake" by the Crew Planners, and would be more inclined to believe it has been (repeatedly) another cynical attempt to recreate a facet of the "Ryanair model", that rather ironically, Ryanair are themselves slowly moving away from.

If it was just that, a simple miscalculation, the company would have in all likelihood bit the bullet, picked up the tab, and kept people employed over Winter . . . . there was no miscalculation here, believe me.

Last edited by captplaystation; 14th Apr 2016 at 10:44.
captplaystation is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2016, 22:03
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: London
Posts: 24
If they are recruiting now, the TR courses will probably start in September, until people are qualified it would be November.
So here is my question again, because I cannot get my head around that: what's the point of hiring now to put new FO's on the line in late autumn if the airline has the strategy of laying people off in winter?
Kudlaty is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.