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Norwegian VS Ryanair

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Norwegian VS Ryanair

Old 3rd Jul 2016, 12:34
  #81 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Sweden
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The most bizarre reasons for the cancellations are emerging. Of course the pilots are at fault if you ask Norwegian:

Norwegian om flykaoset: Piloter har meldt seg syke på kort varsel - Norwegian Air Shuttle - VG

"The pilots have declared sick with short notice"

https://www.nrk.no/rogaland/parat-be...ian-1.13025136

"The pilot union have cancelled the proposed agreement regarding overtime work"

Or, from a Swedish newspaper:
Norwegian ställer in flygningar ? ?strategi? enligt facket - DN.SE

"Shortage of pilots and planes"

Meanwhile no information has been relayed to the passengers, some of them got the news at the airport!

Raser mot Norwegian: ? Bjørn Kjos ligger vel under en palme et sted - Norwegian Air Shuttle - VG
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Old 8th Jul 2016, 12:55
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Pilots and cabin crew won over Norwegian - Norway Today
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Old 8th Jul 2016, 17:56
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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For all the bad press Norwegian has been getting lately, I think the tide is about to turn: UK based pilots got a decent CLA through BALPA, Spanish based pilots just achieved SEPLA recognition and K-area staffing levels will be increased with 50 full time positions in Scandinavia before the end of the year subject to MSL in return for reinstating Annex E of the CLA.

Slowly, small improvements are coming, such as bidding for nightstop preferences close to home, there are a number of command courses planned on both short and long haul. These are small improvements I know, but at least it is steady progress. Disappointing however, is the fact that the pilots are blamed for the current mess, which is clearly caused by a lack of forward planning and questionable decisions being taken by upper management for perceived short term gain with no appreciation of the long term effects.

Having said all that, I believe that management has now realised and understood the magnitude of the current crew shortage and are making an effort to make it right. This won't happen over night of course, but it's a step in the right direction at least!
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Old 8th Jul 2016, 18:15
  #84 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
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Hmmmm I hope your right, I'm not going to hold my breath though......

A leopard doesn't change its spots really.
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Old 8th Jul 2016, 20:31
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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UK based pilots got a decent CLA through BALPA, Spanish based pilots just achieved SEPLA recognition
UK based pilots received a decent Collective Labor Agreement with their employer agency, not Norwegian. SEPLA received recognition with the employer agency, not Norwegian.

“Under the Provision of Services of Aircraft Crew Agreement, OSM “manages” labor relations and non-operational performance matters”. The findings of a government agency investigation into the Norwegian/OSM/crewmember relationship may be reviewed by downloading the report at:

https://storage.googleapis.com/dakot...171.1464013583

The recent “bad press” includes the headline; “The family Kjos created pilot chaos”

http://www.dn.no/nyheter/naringsliv/...apte-pilotkaos

“Kjos son-in-law, Stig Kjos-Mathisen, is one of the key people responsible for the airline working seamlessly” - "In February he was promoted to be responsible for crew scheduling in Norwegian” - “He has a special education and has great expertise in sectors including derivatives and advanced calculation models, explains Kjos [to] E24”

http://e24.no/boers-og-finans/norweg...lapse/23733869

After the recent cancellations affecting thousands of passengers due to grossly mismanaged staffing levels, Norwegian may trial an even more “advanced calculation model” called PAWS. This involves placing tuna on a computer keyboard and a cat. The cat moves across the keyboard eating the tuna and paws the keyboard projecting future staffing requirements. If successful, PAWS will also replace the Headless Chicken crew scheduling software currently in use.

But has the pilot union/group/association let the smiling rock ape off the hook once more?

http://e24.no/jobb/norwegian-air-shu...satte/23728667

The pilot representatives may have failed to capitalize on the above court ruling during negotiations to reinstate selling days off and vacation. Norwegian agreed to permanently employ more pilots - but did they? Will these pilots be permanently “employed” by an agency and only temporarily assigned to Norwegian? Why didn’t the union continue the overtime ban until other labor issues were resolved? - an entirely legal option as overtime cannot be mandatory. Immediately after the agreement to end the overtime ban, Kjos declared his contempt for the court ruling:

“Kjos will not allow ruling against Norwegian in district court to stop airline from placing employees in various subsidiaries”

http://e24.no/boers-og-finans/norweg...kevel/23734164

Meanwhile; of the 27 cabin crew “rented out against their will” to fly with Slovakian pilots;

“The conversion course was disorganized, poorly planned and completely unserious. Everyone got approved and issued the certificate before the test was taken. It makes us seriously worried about security” - “We have protested loudly and one has resigned in protest, says one of the Norwegian employees, who wishes to remain anonymous for fear of losing their job”

http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/norw...heten/60229786

Norwegian's US permits are still pending approval.
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Old 8th Jul 2016, 21:17
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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Bondi get a hobby, the NPU is satisfied that after a recent court ruling Norwegian has been legally established as the true employer and the legal ties of the Norwegian group to PSN/PSS/PSD also meet these criteria. As for your other contributions, I won't even acknowledge them with a reply. The employment model is far from ideal, but it is what it is, isn't likely to change much and we have to live with it for now. Slowly progress is being made, and in the meantime, all I can say is it is still a better place to work than many other places in Europe.
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Old 8th Jul 2016, 22:20
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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Angry

Get a hoby... come on! We, the people decide on the future we want to have, I have seen people taking action and making changes that benefit all of us now, if you want to bend over the table, too bad for you, but let the people like DB inform us on what is the reality is, so changes can happen. This is what this forum is for, bloody hell.

Last edited by Can737; 8th Jul 2016 at 22:33.
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Old 9th Jul 2016, 00:15
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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november.sierra, go and screw yourself . . . . mate. . . . Bondi " After the recent cancellations affecting thousands of passengers due to grossly mismanaged staffing levels, Norwegian may trial an even more “advanced calculation model” called PAWS. This involves placing tuna on a computer keyboard and a cat. The cat moves across the keyboard eating the tuna and paws the keyboard projecting future staffing requirements. If successful, PAWS will also replace the Headless Chicken crew scheduling software currently in use."

thanks, I always need a laugh in this industry, comedy gold my friend
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Old 9th Jul 2016, 05:44
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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I'm totally sick with flying with guys like November in Norwegian now. The company give you a scrap and you jump around like a kid on Christmas. Make no mistake, the Gatwick CLA is awful in my opinion, pages and pages of definitions, yet the actual CLA is about 3 lines. SEPLA have recognition, but CLA negotiations have been dragged out for months.

Norwegian/OSM/ whatever it's called this week have only done this because they have been forced to, not out of any realisation that they have made mistakes. You can bet that any further progress will take a long time to come, if ever. While I admit some progress has been made, I don't think it has changed anything as of yet.

Suffice to say, this isn't a personal attack, just the point of view you have I've had enough of hearing and totally don't agree with it.
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Old 9th Jul 2016, 08:10
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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Maxpeck : "Some progress has been made" .
You now have private health care, pension, LOL, and a decent collective agreement that the vast majority of your colleagues voted for in LGW. Not excellent, but a good package that BALPA could recommend. A solid starting point for future progress. A small minority of the LGW pilots now approached the company wanting the euro salary back. This after threatening resignations if they couldnt get pound sterling pay a year ago. Pathetic if you ask me, and we as pilots are truly our own worst enemy some times.

Last edited by directmisbi; 9th Jul 2016 at 12:57.
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Old 9th Jul 2016, 10:21
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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Sure the CLA is better than not having one, but I think it fell short in what it could have been if you compare it with other operators in LGW. Personally I wouldn't put too much weight into what BALPA would recommend, didn't they also recomend a UK seniority list not too long ago, I may be wrong on that though so feel free to correct me.

I will accept it is a starting point for future progress, but now is perhaps the only time that pilots will be in such a position to ask for things they want and my opinion is their CLA fell short of what it could have been.
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Old 9th Jul 2016, 11:11
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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If everything was so rosy, they wouldn't have had such difficulty recruiting (which is the REAL reason for this mess, along with the main aim of understaffing & ultimately eliminating "Core Norwegian" )

Norwegian hires new pilots to address 'terrible' situation - The Local
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Old 9th Jul 2016, 12:07
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Sure the CLA is better than not having one, but I think it fell short in what it could have been

I'm confused. It has been said that the CLA in UK and the SEPLA agreement in Spain is with the 'agency employer', but now it has been established that the real employer is Norwegian. Does that make those agreements null & void and need renegotiating?
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Old 9th Jul 2016, 12:23
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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For future applicants I strongly recommend www.norwegianpilotgroup.org for news and facts about the company/terms and conditions. Questions can be put forward directly to the NPG. Some people in here have an axe to grind, and a twisted bitter personal vendetta going on towards the company for whatever reasons. Im not a company apologist, and things could defiantely have been handled better in the past, im not saying its perfect either, but it is still a trillions times better than the blue, yellow outfit

Last edited by directmisbi; 9th Jul 2016 at 12:56.
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Old 9th Jul 2016, 13:12
  #95 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
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but it is still a trillions times better than the blue, yellow outfit
The Irish are honest regarding the shafting you are about to receive. It's on paper and you sign it and everyone receives it... at least you won't have a rising blood pressure when it's time for the mandatory "90° declination".

The Norwegians however will lie to you and blame the shafting on bullocks, that seems to reoccur each and every winter. You will be blamed in the media as well by their arrogant PR-people.

The way I've understood it is: crap random rosters, non-commutable, long time to upgrade for FOs, a lot of night flights, deadheads, and expensive layovers. Problems you usually won't have when with the Irish...
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Old 9th Jul 2016, 13:51
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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More than a few years back I was in an airline that was having recruiting problems, at the end of the day the only way they could find pilots was to increase the remuneration, in fact over the year I saw a 25% pay increase.
Being that a pay increase will be inevitable if the company is to increase the pilot workforce then it seems to me that the LGW pilot workforce may be more astute than some would think in getting a pay rise ( + T&C's) while waiting for the inevitable to happen and the company to further increase remuneration levels due to market forces.
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Old 9th Jul 2016, 23:01
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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After it became apparent that agency crews would no longer accept undermined labor standards, labor rights and labor principles, and would seek representation via a lawful, labor trade union, Norwegian and OSM distributed the notice below.

Vegard Einan, the head of Norway labor union PARAT, believes the notice is an attempt to influence employees from joining a union, and in a Scandinavian working life context, is “ethically and morally reprehensible”:

http://www.dagbladet.no/2016/06/05/n...arat/44433259/

At the left, the notice states; "Norwegian nor OSM will never divulge your personal information". It is a documented fact that Norwegian has previously disclosed, entirely without consent, the personal information of at least one agency crew member, possibly more, including private bank details with account numbers. At the right, the notice warns of threats and bully tactics, the use of which both OSM and Norwegian are proficient:

“Pilots are threatened with losing their jobs if they refuse to transition to OSM”

http://www.dn.no/nyheter/naringsliv/...uttert-til-osm

Union representation will hold Norwegian accountable to comply with the International Labor Organization, ILO, core conventions it (falsely) declares on its website to comply with:

http://www.norwegian.com/uk/about/co...y/human-worth/

If ever there was an airline that demanded strong union representation, it is the regime of Bjorn Kjos and his cronies.


Last edited by Direct Bondi; 12th Jul 2016 at 10:55. Reason: additional facts
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Old 12th Jul 2016, 12:37
  #98 (permalink)  

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That flyer is unbelievable!

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Old 12th Jul 2016, 12:44
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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Why? We are talking about Bjorn Kjos......
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Old 12th Jul 2016, 15:03
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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So which one of the two companies offers a better "package" ?
As far as I know at least Norwegian gives you ID tickets
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