Turkish Airlines THY working conditions - worse than announced?
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Nightstop, If it's not a commuting contract, then why was I employed on a "commuting" contract? Why did the contract agency state it is a "commuting contract"? And why did the company tell me it is a "commuting contract"?
This IS a commuting contract. Period. Oh wait... Did THY tell me this just to get me in
The only thing is that THY change the rules and requirements on the whim of whoever's ego happens to be in management. They do this on a continual basis and is the main reason I DO NOT recommend this company, as what the deal is today, may change next month.
The Short Haul fleet is a different beast than long haul, and commuting on that fleet would be next to impossible. I'm guessing this is the reason for the change, as maybe the 320 carrier pilot commuted!? (This is purely speculation on my behalf and I have no details/proof of this.... Purely a guess)
Here is one of many ads currently doing the rounds Nightstop.
**Turkish Airlines is now offering a Commuting Roster to **** Captains and has Increased the Bonus and Salary Figures**
source: http://jobs.flightglobal.com/job/140...ing-contract-/
This IS a commuting contract. Period. Oh wait... Did THY tell me this just to get me in
The only thing is that THY change the rules and requirements on the whim of whoever's ego happens to be in management. They do this on a continual basis and is the main reason I DO NOT recommend this company, as what the deal is today, may change next month.
The Short Haul fleet is a different beast than long haul, and commuting on that fleet would be next to impossible. I'm guessing this is the reason for the change, as maybe the 320 carrier pilot commuted!? (This is purely speculation on my behalf and I have no details/proof of this.... Purely a guess)
Here is one of many ads currently doing the rounds Nightstop.
**Turkish Airlines is now offering a Commuting Roster to **** Captains and has Increased the Bonus and Salary Figures**
source: http://jobs.flightglobal.com/job/140...ing-contract-/
Last edited by twentyyearstoolate; 9th May 2015 at 10:42. Reason: Added reference
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Oh... and ther was NO increased Bonus and NO increased salary.
This figure of an increased slary and bonus was with Turkish Airlines factoring in 10 hours overtime in each salary. Bit cheeky
This figure of an increased slary and bonus was with Turkish Airlines factoring in 10 hours overtime in each salary. Bit cheeky
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First you say this as a fact:
Then state it as if its not possible with such a contract :
So I also say again. This IS [should be] a commuting contract, and sold as such. Only now are they changing the rules to suit themselves because of an accident. Apparently you were wrong in the first instance Nightstop, but cannot accept the fact.
I get more days than the previous poster at home in one stretch, however, in between trips with 3 days off I used to go home and see my family in Europe. That has essentially changed now. So minimum 3 weeks away from them now every month.
So Nightstop, you clearly don't know this contract or our situation yet posted all the "facts". You should go into management with your attitude towards fellow pilots.
As to you thinking it's just "tough" for me that I commute, May I suggest you go F### yourself!
This is not a commuting contract. Your base is IST. If you choose to commute, tough.
I say again, that is Not a commuting contract. How anyone could do so on that type of pattern must be mad.
I get more days than the previous poster at home in one stretch, however, in between trips with 3 days off I used to go home and see my family in Europe. That has essentially changed now. So minimum 3 weeks away from them now every month.
So Nightstop, you clearly don't know this contract or our situation yet posted all the "facts". You should go into management with your attitude towards fellow pilots.
As to you thinking it's just "tough" for me that I commute, May I suggest you go F### yourself!
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TYTL:
I don't want to sound like management and I don't know the particular details of the contract that you signed but at my company; we have a similar situation. People who know full well that the contract is not commuting come, try and commute and then complain when they are not able to do it easily. In my view there are some good commuting contracts around which are advertised as commuting, if this is really your intention before joining a company then it is certainly better to go for a "designer commuting contract".
I don't want to sound like management and I don't know the particular details of the contract that you signed but at my company; we have a similar situation. People who know full well that the contract is not commuting come, try and commute and then complain when they are not able to do it easily. In my view there are some good commuting contracts around which are advertised as commuting, if this is really your intention before joining a company then it is certainly better to go for a "designer commuting contract".
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Boeingrestricted:
This new rule of 12hrs, if it's true (which I do not doubt) is, if I may speculate, just to suit them operationally.
Today you are practically forced to go flying when sick.
Your base is Istanbul, which on the short haul means both IST and SAW. A three hour drive between these two are not uncommon due to the insane traffic still, they are both considered as your home base. It's not uncommon that you start your duty on one airport and end it on the other one and have to spend alot of time going home.
Add to that, very dodgy rules regarding what's a standby, duty or not and it (at least for me) becomes apparent that they do not care about fatigue, health and rest however with the ever increasing traffic and shortage of crews, they for sure need more flexibility when it comes to rostering their crews.
This new rule of 12hrs, if it's true (which I do not doubt) is, if I may speculate, just to suit them operationally.
Today you are practically forced to go flying when sick.
Your base is Istanbul, which on the short haul means both IST and SAW. A three hour drive between these two are not uncommon due to the insane traffic still, they are both considered as your home base. It's not uncommon that you start your duty on one airport and end it on the other one and have to spend alot of time going home.
Add to that, very dodgy rules regarding what's a standby, duty or not and it (at least for me) becomes apparent that they do not care about fatigue, health and rest however with the ever increasing traffic and shortage of crews, they for sure need more flexibility when it comes to rostering their crews.
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Well, there are quite a few guys on the short haul fleets combining days off the end of one month with days off beginning of next month.. I guess it's a question of not annoying the natives
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Yeah good idea..so for the rest of the previous and following month you will be a zombie...with only 8 days off in 52 days. The system is deeply sick and simply expat unfriendly.
Kirk...I understand you are involved but when your term of comparison are local guys that went to military high school cause their families could not afford an education, join the air force to get paid pennies and then come to THY where their only interest is money you already have a issue. If you add to that many do not speak a word of English ( but have level 6 is their license) are brainwashed and do not really understand that flying an airliner is not a " mission" you have a substantial issue. If you add to that civilian pilots were treated for decades like **** and suffered immensely in the past just to become like their torturer the issue get bigger. If you consider that the word CRM has no meaning as " co pilots" are generally not regarded as future captains but as captain shoe shiner that cannot use the foot rest cause that is captain privilege you have a bigger issue. If you add to that that they hates foreigners as they are seen as those taking their comrades place and chance to buy a villa in Bodrum or a big car or to send their kids to University you have a huge issue. If you add to that this people are still exerting their authority, as far as I know, on flight ops and management you have an incredible issue. Add to that the influence of politics, lack of competences, general language skills,nepotism, recommendations, and so one and we are talking about a third world airline embellished by commercials. The constant sequence of incidents accidents some very serious has no equivalent in first world aviation and it is just the result of the above. . Out source screening, no preferential path for air force pilots, foreign management...is the only way forward..but well Turks know it better. Still unfortunately passenger from all over the world are conned into flying THY. Thanking God I got out at the right time...
Kirk...I understand you are involved but when your term of comparison are local guys that went to military high school cause their families could not afford an education, join the air force to get paid pennies and then come to THY where their only interest is money you already have a issue. If you add to that many do not speak a word of English ( but have level 6 is their license) are brainwashed and do not really understand that flying an airliner is not a " mission" you have a substantial issue. If you add to that civilian pilots were treated for decades like **** and suffered immensely in the past just to become like their torturer the issue get bigger. If you consider that the word CRM has no meaning as " co pilots" are generally not regarded as future captains but as captain shoe shiner that cannot use the foot rest cause that is captain privilege you have a bigger issue. If you add to that that they hates foreigners as they are seen as those taking their comrades place and chance to buy a villa in Bodrum or a big car or to send their kids to University you have a huge issue. If you add to that this people are still exerting their authority, as far as I know, on flight ops and management you have an incredible issue. Add to that the influence of politics, lack of competences, general language skills,nepotism, recommendations, and so one and we are talking about a third world airline embellished by commercials. The constant sequence of incidents accidents some very serious has no equivalent in first world aviation and it is just the result of the above. . Out source screening, no preferential path for air force pilots, foreign management...is the only way forward..but well Turks know it better. Still unfortunately passenger from all over the world are conned into flying THY. Thanking God I got out at the right time...
Last edited by porkflyer; 10th May 2015 at 08:15.
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What about the guys on the Asian side of the Bosphorous, it can take up to 3 hours in heavy traffic. After that drive, surely you'd be far more tired than resting on a flight?
Why not go all the way and mandate suburbs allowed, and also require a "sleep/rest" logbook which must be filled in and signed by a witness to the said rest?
Simply ridiculous
Why not go all the way and mandate suburbs allowed, and also require a "sleep/rest" logbook which must be filled in and signed by a witness to the said rest?
Simply ridiculous
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Current conditions not attractive. Company severely understaffed. Management has no clue. Many other carriers are as desperate and if the pilot category does not get something out of the pocket of"managers " this time and not the other way around as usual...this job doomed.
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XOXO
Hi There,
1- Yes. As per new procedure you should be here and resting in Istanbul before your duty starts. This affects Turkish pilots more than expats since they don't have commuting contract and live in the cities such as Antalya, Izmir, Ankara...
2- Nope... Totally incorrect... You just have to send your sick report via email and see the doctor when you are back to make sure that you are ok. It happened to me and got the acceptance confirmation of my sick report via e-mail within an hour...
3- Its also incorrect. The system is automated... You don't speak with anyone.. Once company has received your report, they upload it to the Online Sick Report System of National Social Security Department. They do have access to that database. Within 7 working days you get your payment via Ziraat Bank with your National ID which is starting with 9 for expats. However, you cannot get full refund since flying allowance is not counted towards this scheme and also tax exempted.
4- You never get only IST-ATH-IST flight... (unless you are so lucky) The duty is way more than that.
5- Pretty much correct
6- Definitely correct
7- Incorrect... I haven't seen so much of people leaving. Only few because they find a job close to their home..
8- Correct.. But they do not defend Turkish Pilot problem either
Its a union on paper collecting money from their members... Nothing more...
9- Incorrect.. Just a rumour.
10- Incorrect... They call you whether you accept or not... However no pressure is felt.. Even you can ask extra days off for this favor and they accept. But procedural wise, they have the authority to change your flight with 24 hours notice...
I hope this answers all the questions...
1- Yes. As per new procedure you should be here and resting in Istanbul before your duty starts. This affects Turkish pilots more than expats since they don't have commuting contract and live in the cities such as Antalya, Izmir, Ankara...
2- Nope... Totally incorrect... You just have to send your sick report via email and see the doctor when you are back to make sure that you are ok. It happened to me and got the acceptance confirmation of my sick report via e-mail within an hour...
3- Its also incorrect. The system is automated... You don't speak with anyone.. Once company has received your report, they upload it to the Online Sick Report System of National Social Security Department. They do have access to that database. Within 7 working days you get your payment via Ziraat Bank with your National ID which is starting with 9 for expats. However, you cannot get full refund since flying allowance is not counted towards this scheme and also tax exempted.
4- You never get only IST-ATH-IST flight... (unless you are so lucky) The duty is way more than that.
5- Pretty much correct
6- Definitely correct
7- Incorrect... I haven't seen so much of people leaving. Only few because they find a job close to their home..
8- Correct.. But they do not defend Turkish Pilot problem either
Its a union on paper collecting money from their members... Nothing more...9- Incorrect.. Just a rumour.
10- Incorrect... They call you whether you accept or not... However no pressure is felt.. Even you can ask extra days off for this favor and they accept. But procedural wise, they have the authority to change your flight with 24 hours notice...
I hope this answers all the questions...
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Night stop . Simply put , you are an A$$. The regulations are so that the company cannot schedule you to work continuously . What you do with and how you manage your rest is up to the individual . The company must schedule you at least the minimum , that's their responsibility , full stop . Are you guaranteed that you are "rested " after putting yourself in your room for 12 hours ? It does not ! It is commendable that you give up your time . My needs and what rest I need are my business , as long as I turn up for my duty fit
If an airline tried to roster you to pax XXX-Base to operate an full FDP - What would you say? - But it's alright when you want to pitch up having commuted before a flight.
Get the Part A and read Crew members responsibilities.
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@furbpilot
Thanks for an advice about my English skills... I should definitely do something about it... And good luck to everyone whose got the job in the Middle or Far East.. May god bless each of them and facilitate safe and enjoyable life...
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Angry .
For someone from the UK , it is "you're" not "your" . Would have expected better .
That is my point , the regs are to ensure that the company cannot roster you this way . The regulations cannot stipulate where and how one rests , the company has to legally provide you with the time , not tell you how to rest . As far as Part A , the CM responsibility is to ensure sufficiently rested and fit , I agreed with this .
So yes , I can commute ( pitch up ) if I am able to do it . As long as I am feel sufficiently rested .
Maybe your employer should stipulate that you should be prone , in bed , eyes shut 12 hours before , because being in your base does not guarantee that you are rested . Need to be told when to eat , take a pi$$ also ?
For someone from the UK , it is "you're" not "your" . Would have expected better .
That is my point , the regs are to ensure that the company cannot roster you this way . The regulations cannot stipulate where and how one rests , the company has to legally provide you with the time , not tell you how to rest . As far as Part A , the CM responsibility is to ensure sufficiently rested and fit , I agreed with this .
So yes , I can commute ( pitch up ) if I am able to do it . As long as I am feel sufficiently rested .
Maybe your employer should stipulate that you should be prone , in bed , eyes shut 12 hours before , because being in your base does not guarantee that you are rested . Need to be told when to eat , take a pi$$ also ?
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Mr Angry from Purely,
You sir are clueless!
Maybe you should read the responsibilities and understand them!
No wonder this industry is so bad with individuals like you who comment on issue they have no clue about.
You sir are clueless!
Maybe you should read the responsibilities and understand them!
No wonder this industry is so bad with individuals like you who comment on issue they have no clue about.
Last edited by twentyyearstoolate; 10th May 2015 at 19:00.
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Mr Angry from Purely,
hahaha
they want to roster you bla bla bla...
How would you feel if they rostered you to drive for 3 hours etc etc
I might ask how you get to a flight? Do you drive, train, bus or do you miraculously appear at briefing? Well...its none of my or anyone elses business. Simply put, you sign that your are fit!
Get with the program!!
You are the reason we have no hope in this industry. Why do people with no idea and no "horse in the race" have such an opinionated reply?! Go back to whatever you're doing and leave the Airline Industry and conditions to the Pilots that it affects!
Clearly you haven't a clue! You are happy for the company to dictate what you do and when you do it. I'd love to see this affecting you and you being told when you have to rest in your own time, and how you get to work.
Complete slave who does what he's told... or is it that you just lack empathy and you're a complete
hahaha
they want to roster you bla bla bla...
How would you feel if they rostered you to drive for 3 hours etc etc
I might ask how you get to a flight? Do you drive, train, bus or do you miraculously appear at briefing? Well...its none of my or anyone elses business. Simply put, you sign that your are fit!
Get with the program!!
You are the reason we have no hope in this industry. Why do people with no idea and no "horse in the race" have such an opinionated reply?! Go back to whatever you're doing and leave the Airline Industry and conditions to the Pilots that it affects!
Clearly you haven't a clue! You are happy for the company to dictate what you do and when you do it. I'd love to see this affecting you and you being told when you have to rest in your own time, and how you get to work.
Complete slave who does what he's told... or is it that you just lack empathy and you're a complete
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what is clear now?
Well guys, thanks for all posts.
I found more information than I expected, and also ideas and words, how much different the rest before flight is evaluated.
Anyhow, so far, it makes it difficult to get a clear view, since there are a few posts going in opposite directions. Going back to my 10 points from the start,
which point is clearly incorrect?
Maybe somebody is able to summarize ...
I found more information than I expected, and also ideas and words, how much different the rest before flight is evaluated.
Anyhow, so far, it makes it difficult to get a clear view, since there are a few posts going in opposite directions. Going back to my 10 points from the start,
which point is clearly incorrect?
Maybe somebody is able to summarize ...